Conference realignment has exploded again....whooohoooo

[TexasTerror]

UNLV...question...

What happens if LTU, NMSU, USU or Hawaii leave the WAC? A Salt Lake Tribune writer was told by Karl Benson that nothing is keeping them from jumping ship. Will there still be room in the WAC for FCS schools like TXST, Lamar or UTSA? Or will the league just fold?

[UNLV]

The WAC needs to add members now. Not next year, not in 3 months.
The already have 1 foot in the grave with Hawaii and Utah st ready to go.
SJST might drop football, that leaves La Tech, NMSU, and Idaho with no
homes. Would the Sunbelt take Tech and NMSU, I don't now...
UTSA is begging to get in. The WAC options are to add teams or die. They
have less than 10 days to decide.

For Cardinal fans, if the WAC dies, LU you can forget about FBS in our lifetime.

My prediction, the WAC invites UTSA and Texas st along with 2 west coast teams.

The best solution is to build a eastern division around Tech by adding 5-6 regional schools.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="UNLV" post="827676" timestamp="1282273423"]
You guys are clueless beyond clueless. The blind leading the blind.
The decision WHEN to go FBS is no longer LU's, or Texas st, or UTSA, or any other FCS.
[/quote]

LOL, that was funny.

As far as offers for LU to go FBS, that's a very slim prospect. I have said I believe we can do it, I think we should do it with the right conference. The thought that when we get the call we have to be ready to move up is nothing new, regardless of rules changes. An FBS conference is not going to make very many special concessions for LU when we don't bring very much to the conferences at the moment. We don't have a very large media market, no major airport, budgets aren't up to par, etc. What I'm saying is that we have to have a bit of time to build support.

Don't get me wrong I'm easily the biggest Lamar advocate you will ever meet, but we have to be realistic about how quickly LU can move on an FBS offer when we haven't even competed at the FCS level yet. Our money situation is not the best for it at the moment, there is a significant push to rebuild the entire campus, that takes dough. I know Jimmy Simmons as an acquaintance and I know what his ambitions are, he wants to LU to be more than just a football school. I work for the Dean of Engineering (Jack Hopper) so I know about the budget, more than anyone here I promise you. So to say that I'm the blind leading the blind is absurd, you need to check yourself on that one, unless you were directing that comment to someone else.

[kingkat99]

I have asked this question on katfans so ill ask it here too....what is so great about being fbs?  You will never play for a national championship and depending on the conference you join you may not win a conference championship for many years.  No major school ie Texas will ever get into a home and home deal with you and you can play those "money" games now as an fcs school.  Ill take an opportunity to play for a conference championship and a real national championship all day over a conference championship and an opportunity to play in the dowereallydeserveabowl.com bowl in podunk Michigan somewhere anyday...

[UNLV]

I don't care who you know, please read....LAMAR DOES NOT DICTATE WHEN OR IF A FBS CONFERENCE CAN CALL THEM UP.
So you can know the King and the Queen. If Lamar gets that call, Lamar better get its butt ready. If Lamar can't
get it done, then Lamar may not get another chance. Lamar can forget about FBS, reguardless of Simmon's wishes.

[UNLV]

[quote name="kingkat99" post="828725" timestamp="1282443506"]
I have asked this question on katfans so ill ask it here too....what is so great about being fbs?  You will never play for a national championship and depending on the conference you join you may not win a conference championship for many years.  No major school ie Texas will ever get into a home and home deal with you and you can play those "money" games now as an fcs school.  Ill take an opportunity to play for a conference championship and a real national championship all day over a conference championship and an opportunity to play in the dowereallydeserveabowl.com bowl in podunk Michigan somewhere anyday...
[/quote]Boise st opponents said the same thing.

[Javelina]

I would see the WAC going after Montana real hard and think they would have to take Montana St. as a package deal.
I could see them Going after maybe Tx. State and SFA and regional teams here.  I think Lamar and UTSA are just caught in a bad timing situation.  If Montana does not work out maybe they try and recruit Portland St.  I don't see any California schools getting called up because of the financial situation out there. 

[UNLV]

If LU got the call today, LU does not have to be FBS today. LU would have 2-3 years to get FBS
ready.

[Green Menace]

[quote name="ForeverADog" post="828560" timestamp="1282410578"]
Agree completely Terror. I just want to say as far as Lamar goes if they can go FBS they need to go. No doubt in that. I just don't think they can get ready in time.
[/quote]
Yes they can get to the FBS level.  It may be a reconfigured, lower than the Sun Belt, WAC conference, but that may be all that's available.  You take what you can get nowadays.

For Lamar to thrust themselves into FBS-
1. Regardless of how bad or good Lamar's records are over the next few years, win or lose, Cardinal fans must fill their stadium.
2. Lamar alumni, casual fans, or just plain "college fooball fans" must join the Cardinal Club.  Lamar needs 10,000+ in the Cardinal Club.
3. Win, win, and win some more.
4. Simmons should be on speed dial with the WAC commissioner.  The WAC needs teams or they will fold.  Tx State-San Marcus, Lamar, UTSA, and a couple of the Left Coast schools could help keep the conference going.
5. Did I mention selling out Cardinal Stadium (or whatever it's called now) for every game, win or lose.

And for the record, UNT has had a standing offer to join the WAC for several years now.  We want no part of it because of our Western swing experiences in the old Big West.  It's the non-revenue sports that kill programs that have to travel.  Better to stay in the Sun Belt than to try for a WAC patch on your jersey.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="UNLV" post="828727" timestamp="1282443703"]
I don't care who you know, please read....LAMAR DOES NOT DICTATE WHEN OR IF A FBS CONFERENCE CAN CALL THEM UP.
So you can know the King and the Queen. If Lamar gets that call, Lamar better get its butt ready. If Lamar can't
get it done, then Lamar may not get another chance. Lamar can forget about FBS, reguardless of Simmon's wishes.

[/quote]

Can you read? I know that we don't control when a conference calls us up that's common sense. I was stating that if we do get the call early it's not going to happen. I mentioned Simmons and Hopper because I was demonstrating where the schools priorities are. You may feel that it is imperative that LU is FBS that is not everyone in the administrations feelings. That type of move cost money and as I said they want to build the campus up, which also cost money. So my mention of those two names had relevance to what I was trying to get across.

Also I completely agree with the sentiment that FCS is just fine. Do I want to see LU move to FBS, yes, if it doesn't conflict with the schools broader motives for development. If we end up staying FCS I will not cry about it though, I just want what is best for the school.

To UNLV and everyone else who throw Lamar's name in with TxSt and UTSA, you're dreaming. Those two schools are far ahead of us in the line to get into any conference. Someone please cite a league commissioner talking about Lamar, no one is. Lets be realistic, were going to be in the FCS for the foreseeable future. The thought that if we don't get in in the next 2 to 3 years we never will is nonsense. How do we no what will happen in the NCAA 5 or 10 years down the road? LU is a school before it's a sports team.

[kingkat99]

[quote name="UNLV" post="828728" timestamp="1282443773"]
[quote author=kingkat99 link=topic=71805.msg828725#msg828725 date=1282443506]
I have asked this question on katfans so ill ask it here too....what is so great about being fbs?  You will never play for a national championship and depending on the conference you join you may not win a conference championship for many years.  No major school ie Texas will ever get into a home and home deal with you and you can play those "money" games now as an fcs school.  Ill take an opportunity to play for a conference championship and a real national championship all day over a conference championship and an opportunity to play in the dowereallydeserveabowl.com bowl in podunk Michigan somewhere anyday...
[/quote]Boise st opponents said the same thing.
[/quote]
Boise
State could be used more as an exception than a rule...ask Western Kentucky how fbs is working out for them and they have played fcs football in the last 20 yrs hell they won a national championship this decade and got greedy made that move and last season they sold season tickets for 5 dollars a game just to try and fill the seats.  Ask Marshall if fbs is as great as they thought it would be...Montana has voted down the idea at least once before already because its better and more fun for the fans to be cream of the crop than cellar dweller or middle of the pack...

[UNLV]

LU went 35 years, 1970-2005, without growth because of beliefs as yours. Lamar dropped football
using the same thinking. You might be happy with LU being A FCS no growth school,
the game day 2/3 empty stadium will be the results.


The FBS powers already think there are too many FBS schools and every year they make up new rules
to block FCS move ups. In 5 years it will be so strict that no FCS can move up. Do you doubt the trend or
do you naively think Simmons has the power to command LU into FBS at his choosing...

LU should get in before the door shuts, then go from there.

PS. Billy Tubbs said FCS won't succeed in SETX. He was right.
[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="828833" timestamp="1282461768"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg828727#msg828727 date=1282443703]
I don't care who you know, please read....LAMAR DOES NOT DICTATE WHEN OR IF A FBS CONFERENCE CAN CALL THEM UP.
So you can know the King and the Queen. If Lamar gets that call, Lamar better get its butt ready. If Lamar can't
get it done, then Lamar may not get another chance. Lamar can forget about FBS, reguardless of Simmon's wishes.

[/quote]

Can you read? I know that we don't control when a conference calls us up that's common sense. I was stating that if we do get the call early it's not going to happen. I mentioned Simmons and Hopper because I was demonstrating where the schools priorities are. You may feel that it is imperative that LU is FBS that is not everyone in the administrations feelings. That type of move cost money and as I said they want to build the campus up, which also cost money. So my mention of those two names had relevance to what I was trying to get across.

Also I completely agree with the sentiment that FCS is just fine. Do I want to see LU move to FBS, yes, if it doesn't conflict with the schools broader motives for development. If we end up staying FCS I will not cry about it though, I just want what is best for the school.

To UNLV and everyone else who throw Lamar's name in with TxSt and UTSA, you're dreaming. Those two schools are far ahead of us in the line to get into any conference. Someone please cite a league commissioner talking about Lamar, no one is. Lets be realistic, were going to be in the FCS for the foreseeable future. The thought that if we don't get in in the next 2 to 3 years we never will is nonsense. How do we no what will happen in the NCAA 5 or 10 years down the road? LU is a school before it's a sports team.
[/quote]

[bigred360]

UNLV, I love your passion for Lamar but IMO we are at least 4-5 years from serious FBS conversation. We haven't played our first game in 21 years yet. I'm sure the administration at Lamar is going to do the right thing and the best interest of the athletic department.

Now, that's all I got to say as conference realignment is not something I feel I know well enough to talk a great deal about. I'll leave this thread to you guys.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829002" timestamp="1282502251"]
LU went 35 years, 1970-2005, without growth because of beliefs as yours. Lamar dropped football
using the same thinking. You might be happy with LU being A FCS no growth school,
the game day 2/3 empty stadium will be the results.
[/quote]

Wrong, there are other factors that were much more important, I can tell you about them but most of them have nothing to do with football. Believe me football is not the only reason a school grows in enrollment. look at UTA and UTSA, you don't know what you're talking about. The growth that has taken place at LU has more to do with the Texas Legislature's deregulation of tuition.

[quote]
The FBS powers already think there are too many FBS schools and every year they make up new rules
to block FCS move ups. In 5 years it will be so strict that no FCS can move up. Do you doubt the trend or
do you naively think Simmons has the power to command LU into FBS at his choosing...
[/quote]

This is why I question you're reading, go back and look what I said. I never said that Simmons could command us into the FBS, I did say he can raise the money at the right time but money isn't the only factor. He has broader motives than just football anyways.

[UNLV]

In the 80's, LU and La Tech were equal. Today Tech is a known FBS school making national news and a
top canidate for CUSA. Unknown Lamar, back in the SLC playing the same jv ball that killed the program.
So sad yet you would be happy with it. The setx mentality at it's best.

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829156" timestamp="1282519472"]
In the 80's, LU and La Tech were equal. Today Tech is a known FBS school making national news and a
top canidate for CUSA. Unknown Lamar, back in the SLC playing the same jv ball that killed the program.
So sad yet you would be happy with it. The setx mentality at it's best.
[/quote]

I will only repeat that there are many other factors that lead to the decline of LU in the 90's. That was the only period of despair for the school. You didn't even recognize my examples that prove that your rule is false (i.e. football is not the primary reason for success, unless were talking about certain programs the University of Miami comes to mind) Believe me I'm not the small minded one here, you are. I don't know why it took me this long to realize it's useless to talk to you.

Where did you go to school? Hopefully UNLV, it would be disgraceful to us if you were a LU grad and used that name.

[Crazy Card Fan]

Most posters on here have good points.

My two cents worth - Billy Tubbs wanted into CUSA, and his backup was Sunbelt, he was looking to make this move in 2-3 years. Informal conversations with schools and officials in these conferences was a day to day occurence.

The BIG question for me now is this: What direction does Larry Tidwell want to take the school into?  I believe Tidwell will be as aggressive as he possibly can be in getting Lamar to go FBS, within the constraints of the budget.

IMHO - unless there is an eastern division, the WAC is not a realistic choice due to travel budgets.

Lamar is ready to compete in an FBS conference in every sport besides Football (which is unproven).

[CardAmbassador]

[quote name="Crazy Card Fan" post="829269" timestamp="1282530032"]
Lamar is ready to compete in an FBS conference in every sport besides Football (which is unproven).
[/quote]

By that line of thought we aren't ready at all. What does the F in FBS stand for after all?

I think we are ready to compete in some sports but both Basketball and Football. I'm not saying we wont be just that we are not currently.

[coachacola]

Lamar doesn't have to start competing at the FBS level right away if they join the WAC.  A WAC invite would probably mean they would join the conference in 2012 at the earliest, maybe even in 2013.  After two years in FCS they'll have two years to transition to FBS.  Woodard has already scheduled one FBS team year for the money, wouldn't it be nice to get some FBS teams into Beaumont?  They won't come if Lamar stays FCS.  The McNeese, SFA, and Sam Houston games will probably be the "big" home games each year, is that the fans want?  Baylor came to Beaumont a long time ago before Lamar went 1-AA, it won't ever happen again if Lamar doesn't go back to FBS.

And how stable is the SLC?  UTSA is leaving, Texas State is probably leaving.  Nicholls State is hanging by a thread financially.  Five years from now will people be excited about Lamar football when the SLC invites a D2 school to join the conference?

And let's not forget Lamar basketball.  I want to see Lamar compete against better competition, even if it means they struggle at first.  The Montagne Center and Lamar's attendance would be right at home in the WAC.  Check out last year's attendance:

Utah State 9,792
Hawaii 5,667
NMSU 5,659
[b]Lamar 2,971[/b]
La Tech 2,438
San Jose 1,854
Idaho 1,640

Sure there's a risk if Lamar goes to the WAC, but I think the powers that be at Lamar have been crunching the numbers for a while to see what it would take to go FBS.  Maybe Dr. Simmons has already decided not to pursue FBS at this time.  I guess only time will tell.

[UNLV]

[quote name="CardAmbassador" post="829169" timestamp="1282520354"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829156#msg829156 date=1282519472]
In the 80's, LU and La Tech were equal. Today Tech is a known FBS school making national news and a
top canidate for CUSA. Unknown Lamar, back in the SLC playing the same jv ball that killed the program.
So sad yet you would be happy with it. The setx mentality at it's best.
[/quote]

I will only repeat that there are many other factors that lead to the decline of LU in the 90's. That was the only period of despair for the school. You didn't even recognize my examples that prove that your rule is false (i.e. football is not the primary reason for success, unless were talking about certain programs the University of Miami comes to mind) Believe me I'm not the small minded one here, you are. I don't know why it took me this long to realize it's useless to talk to you.

Where did you go to school? Hopefully UNLV, it would be disgraceful to us if you were a LU grad and used that name.
[/quote]I was attending LU games as far as I can remember. I attended Lamar one year but had the transfer out because the school was so bad.
On campus rapes, a murder, teachers giving out "A"'s for sex, and buildings catching fire...by it self. Oh wait, dropping football was suppose
to repair all the problems.

I said on this forum before, Dr Simmons does think small and limited like most SETX leaders. Your kind of thinking would keep LU growth dead.

[UNLV]

[quote name="coachacola" post="829339" timestamp="1282535816"]
Lamar doesn't have to start competing at the FBS level right away if they join the WAC.  A WAC invite would probably mean they would join the conference in 2012 at the earliest, maybe even in 2013.  After two years in FCS they'll have two years to transition to FBS.  Woodard has already scheduled one FBS team year for the money, wouldn't it be nice to get some FBS teams into Beaumont?  They won't come if Lamar stays FCS.  The McNeese, SFA, and Sam Houston games will probably be the "big" home games each year, is that the fans want?  Baylor came to Beaumont a long time ago before Lamar went 1-AA, it won't ever happen again if Lamar doesn't go back to FBS.

And how stable is the SLC?  UTSA is leaving, Texas State is probably leaving.  Nicholls State is hanging by a thread financially.  Five years from now will people be excited about Lamar football when the SLC invites a D2 school to join the conference?

And let's not forget Lamar basketball.  I want to see Lamar compete against better competition, even if it means they struggle at first.  The Montagne Center and Lamar's attendance would be right at home in the WAC.  Check out last year's attendance:

Utah State 9,792
Hawaii 5,667
NMSU 5,659
[b]Lamar 2,971[/b]
La Tech 2,438
San Jose 1,854
Idaho 1,640

Sure there's a risk if Lamar goes to the WAC, but I think the powers that be at Lamar have been crunching the numbers for a while to see what it would take to go FBS.  Maybe Dr. Simmons has already decided not to pursue FBS at this time.  I guess only time will tell.

[/quote]Exactly....You can't let opportunities pass you up even if the opportunities aren't perfect. ULM had Alabama in Monroe and they beat them.

[lilbigdaddy]

Here is a good article on CBSSports.com  Link to article [url=http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/13788335/realignment-boom-could-lead-to-more-busts-for-small-schools]HERE[/url]

[b]
Realignment boom could lead to more busts for small schools[/b]

By Dennis Dodd
Tell Dennis your opinion! CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Aug. 19, 2010


From the moment the NCAA seized control of the monster known as television, the outcome was clear.

Less football. From 1952-1984 the NCAA operated under the belief that less of the association's grandest sport was better. Too much of its product on TV, it believed, would impact attendance. Television appearances were an event, not a right or expected. On your average football Saturday during those years you might see Oklahoma-Texas followed by Richmond-Furman. And that was it -- for the weekend.

Read that now and laugh. In '84 the nation's top football playing schools won a Supreme Court battle that allowed them to control their TV rights. These days you can watch entire seasons on a laptop. Most every school in the Big Ten has its games televised on some platform or another. Ohio State and Michigan have suffered from that overexposure so much they spent millions on major stadium expansions in recent years.

[WOS95]

imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!

[UNLV]

[quote name="WOS95" post="829414" timestamp="1282577055"]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.

[kingkat99]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829425" timestamp="1282578796"]
[quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055]
imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!!
[/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc...
At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house.
[/quote]

Id say Mcneese's house stays pretty packed and so do the likes of Appalachan State and Montana and most other programs with a winning tradition.  And having a home and home with the likes of Tech and Alabama would not ne a regular occurence by any means especially if you cant be competitive and you cant play in a bigger stadium than provost umphrey...