Kiss basketball goodbye in HF!!!

[mustang]

[quote name="86hawk" post="814625" timestamp="1277485682"]
in my opinion, it comes down to the school.  The schools mentioned that have the year round "football" training (WOS & BHill) are known for the continued success in football, not basketball.  I know they make the playoffs in BBall as well, but when you mention WOS or BHill and ask someone what sport comes to mind, my guess is Football.  HJ has always been a basketball school.  Ktze and [b]Silsbee are also Bball schools[/b], with Silsbee having success in football.  I can't speak to the PE schedule now days, but we had athletic PE and in that time period, you worked on whatever sport you played.  If you played multiple sports (like most do in small schools) you focused on the sport that was in season.  My senior year, i think we had 3 or 4 guys played football, everyone esle was basketball.  Football failed to reach playoffs and Basketball lost in the Area round.
After all that rambling, my point is the successful sport normally dictates how training or scheduling works.
[/quote]

LOL Silsbee is certainly not a basketball school.  Football is the  big one there!  That being said we are proud to be successful in all sports.  

Football players lift during the season so why can't basketball players?  It isn't the "successful sport" that dictates how training or scheduling works, rather it is the biggest sport that dictates.  And football runs away with that one.  All coaches usually coach football and then a "2nd" sport.  

[Guest speechless]

biggest sport dictates?  lol

how 'bout the coach that yall hired to be the head bball coach dictate what goes on during his season

never said lifting during the season was bad

it should be up to the coach of that sport and not the head football coach

hide and watch....during football theyll lift when they want then when football is over they will be required to lift regardless of what the other sport is doing

[Guest ECBucFan]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814512" timestamp="1277421943"]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg814505#msg814505 date=1277418527]
EC has been more successful than %95 of the schools around here in basketball I think what we're doing is ok
[/quote]3 in Dist. and only beat a private school with a lossing record in the playoffs, is not what i would call a succesful year, but you might . But if they would have spent Wen practing BB and not offseason football they could have placed 2 and made a good run in the playoffs. But  we will see how all the offseason football practice pays off this year when they play Newton :o
[/quote]

2010 is absolutly right, and TB is off base here. EC has a FINE BB program, but primary focus is on football. EC has by far been one of the best BB programs around the past 15-20 years. Thats indisputable. EC also went [i]3 rounds deep[/i] in the 2A football playoff, too, only losing out to state champ Daingerfield.

TB, I am sure no one at EC wants to emulate a "BB first" program, like HJ or Kountze.   

[AggiesAreWe]

I don't think you can label Silsbee as a basketball school. Yes, we have had more success in that sport, but Silsbee prides themselves on being good in every sport. I think it has shown over the last several years in that Silsbee has had more success in multiple sports than the other 21-3A schools, both boys and girls combined. Of course it does help that Silsbee is the largest school in the district. ;)

Football is still king in Silsbee, but basketball has had more success. Bottom line, if you are to label Silsbee, it should be an Athletic school. ;D

[Wildcatter]

Do your straight bball kids have to do football workouts during the season?  That is where I have the concern.  If a kid has never played football why should they have to do football workouts?  The workout for bball is totally different.  For example, do football kids work on jump soles during their workouts?  Do they work on shooting a basketball during football season?  Of course not.  All I am saying is that a football coach should not dictate a basketball program.  Could you imagine the HJ football coach telling Southerland that his non football players are also going to be doing football workouts during the period or they will have to come in before school to do them?  Southerland would laugh at him.  Correct me if I am wrong but I doubt the football guys are there at 6am do do a workout.  I agree that lifting some during the season is ok but the head basketball coach should decide what it looks like.

[team first]

Wow..The ole universal off-season trick...Is good for who? All this does is help the testosterone levels. From a basketball perspective this is not a good idea, evverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. There are no ifs and buts. Someone already said it, let the basketball coach run a program. This game is about skill level. If you can bench 250 and shoot 20%..Get ready for track. The successful programs in this area have a basketball specific class. If a program like a silsbee or ozen ever does this, they will most likely still win because of tradition, little dribblers, athletes, etc. but never reach their full potential. Most people who agree with the univ. off season stuff didnt play or know too much about the game..Sorry. There is no argument!

[True Blue]

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="814689" timestamp="1277515937"]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814512#msg814512 date=1277421943]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg814505#msg814505 date=1277418527]
EC has been more successful than %95 of the schools around here in basketball I think what we're doing is ok
[/quote]3 in Dist. and only beat a private school with a lossing record in the playoffs, is not what i would call a succesful year, but you might . But if they would have spent Wen practing BB and not offseason football they could have placed 2 and made a good run in the playoffs. But  we will see how all the offseason football practice pays off this year when they play Newton :o
[/quote]

2010 is absolutly right, and TB is off base here. EC has a FINE BB program, but primary focus is on football. EC has by far been one of the best BB programs around the past 15-20 years. Thats indisputable. EC also went [i]3 rounds deep[/i] in the 2A football playoff, too, only losing out to state champ Daingerfield.

TB, I am sure no one at EC wants to emulate a "BB first" program, like HJ or Kountze.    
[/quote]You are right Sorry I forgot about the Buy but they only won one game that they played. But JMO I dont see any reason For a Basketball player to drag a tractor tire during BB season.  But maybe EC should look into emulating the BB first program I cant remember any FB state titles But they have gotten close in BB. And HJ and Kountze have State Titles to show for their effort. But go and ask those coaches that made EC a good BB program in those 15 to 20 years and see if any of their teams were doing any offseasion FB workouts during BB season. I have Their #s if you need them

[Guest ECBucFan]

TB, you and your son are gone, and quite frankly, you should just "let it go" as far as [s]Evadale[/s] EC is concerned. Just move on. Again. Good luck at HJ.

The EC community is passionate about football, and nothing you can say or do will change that. Thats a common sentiment in Texas in general, and its certainly true at EC. Trying to disparage a program that went 3 deep in football in '09 is childish and futile. Not too many schools in SETX have a 15 year football playoff streak and a team coming off a third round game. 

[Bucof2010]

If you can't be it bash it I guess  ::)

[True Blue]

You have got it all wrong I am not bashing the FB program at EC at all Just dont see why one programe has to suffer in order to help another one. I am sure that the BB coach is totaly supportive of the FB programe Just wish that the football (AD) coach, felt the same way about BB. And that is not just at EC but looks like other schools also. I am not trying to make it personaly about EC, but that is a program that I know what was going on. If I was at HF I would fell the same way as some other people on this site

[team first]

This thread comes down to one point...Student /Athletes no matter what sport, should have the same opprotunities as the next guy that walks beside them in the hall. Get ready for football, do it. Basketball, go ahead, and so on. This is public education we are talking about. These school administrators should give these kids the best chance to win and have enough of a clue when things arent done right. Public Education is about serving kids. Hire a coach, let him coach!

[True Blue]

You have pretty much summed it up, But some AD football coaches have the attitude of their way or the highway. If you wont to play anything at school you will go into the offseason football workouts. Some schools wont even let kids in the gym if its not BB season. And most of those schools dont go very far in the playoffs.

[Guest ECBucFan]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814808" timestamp="1277611465"]
But some AD football coaches have the attitude of their way or the highway. [/quote]

Yeah, go figure. Coaches [i]actually[/i] think football (here in Texas) is the primary focus. Crazy. Just crazy. Where on earth did they get that idea, TB?   ::)

[True Blue]

Some coaches think that not all, just ask the coaches that consistently take teams deep in the Basketball playoffs. But if you are one of those, that think that, what are you doing on the BB site. The FB site is 3 up ;D

[mustang]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814808" timestamp="1277611465"]
You have pretty much summed it up, [b]But some AD football coaches have the attitude of their way or the highway[/b]. If you wont to play anything at school you will go into the offseason football workouts. Some schools wont even let kids in the gym if its not BB season. And most of those schools dont go very far in the playoffs.
[/quote]


If they are the AD then how is that wrong?  Universal strength/speed training benefits the entire athletic program.  Even those schools that do it usually give the basketball guys some "out" here and there.  THe ones I know only make them lift a couple days a week.  I just don't see the problem in getting stronger, faster, and quicker.  

East Chambers is an excellent example of how universal offseason can help you.  Evadale is another.  Both schools are very successful at all sports.  Woodville, Buna, Newton are even more where they are successful in more than one sport.  

The AD should give the kids the best chance to win and it ain't gonna happen if he can't move or lift a pencil.  Universal strength/speed training is not powerlifting.  Its to make kids quicker/faster/and stronger.  Its great for the kids.  

Consider this... What if the baseball coach gets the kids in February out of basketball and they haven't lifted in 3 months?  Is it fair to him?  No.  The universal system benefits the entire athletic program.  The vast majority of schools modify the universal system to allow for all sports.  Its not the great evil that some make it out to be. 

And I agree with team first when he said "hire a coach let him coach".  So lets let the coaches coach (which is what these A.D.'s are doing ;))

[True Blue]

[quote name="tigerguy" post="814826" timestamp="1277642162"]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814808#msg814808 date=1277611465]
You have pretty much summed it up, [b]But some AD football coaches have the attitude of their way or the highway[/b]. If you wont to play anything at school you will go into the offseason football workouts. Some schools wont even let kids in the gym if its not BB season. And most of those schools dont go very far in the playoffs.
[/quote]


If they are the AD then how is that wrong?  Universal strength/speed training benefits the entire athletic program.  Even those schools that do it usually give the basketball guys some "out" here and there.  THe ones I know only make them lift a couple days a week.  I just don't see the problem in getting stronger, faster, and quicker. 

East Chambers is an excellent example of how universal offseason can help you.  Evadale is another.  Both schools are very successful at all sports.  Woodville, Buna, Newton are even more where they are successful in more than one sport. 

Being sport specific is simply being selfish.  The AD should give the kids the best chance to win and it ain't gonna happen if he can't move or lift a pencil.  Universal strength/speed training is not powerlifting.  Its to [b]make kids quicker/faster/and stronger.[/b]  Its great for the kids. 

[/quote]IF you can run a4.1 and benchpress 265 but cant hit the 15 ft jumper and shoot 80% from the line you will be playing 7on7 as soon as the BB playoff start.

[mustang]

[quote name="True Blue" post="814827" timestamp="1277644020"]
[quote author=tigerguy link=topic=70692.msg814826#msg814826 date=1277642162]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg814808#msg814808 date=1277611465]
You have pretty much summed it up, [b]But some AD football coaches have the attitude of their way or the highway[/b]. If you wont to play anything at school you will go into the offseason football workouts. Some schools wont even let kids in the gym if its not BB season. And most of those schools dont go very far in the playoffs.
[/quote]


If they are the AD then how is that wrong?  Universal strength/speed training benefits the entire athletic program.  Even those schools that do it usually give the basketball guys some "out" here and there.  THe ones I know only make them lift a couple days a week.  I just don't see the problem in getting stronger, faster, and quicker. 

East Chambers is an excellent example of how universal offseason can help you.  Evadale is another.  Both schools are very successful at all sports.  Woodville, Buna, Newton are even more where they are successful in more than one sport. 

Being sport specific is simply being selfish.  The AD should give the kids the best chance to win and it ain't gonna happen if he can't move or lift a pencil.  Universal strength/speed training is not powerlifting.  Its to [b]make kids quicker/faster/and stronger.[/b]  Its great for the kids. 

[/quote]IF you can run a4.1 and benchpress 265 but cant hit the 15 ft jumper and shoot 80% from the line you will be playing 7on7 as soon as the BB playoff start.
[/quote]

I guess those kids go home at 3:00?  No after school practice?

[Guest speechless]

real qustion is do the kids go through the same lifting during fball season as they do the rest of the year?  answer: no

do the kids get the same amount of practice time during the athletic period during the other sports as they do during fball?  answer:  no

what makes the fball coach more qualified to decide what lifts, how much, and when lifting should take place?

[True Blue]

Be carefull Speechless you will be labeled as being UNTexan if you go against the Football gods ;D

[mustang]

[quote name="speechless" post="814829" timestamp="1277645491"]
real qustion is do the kids go through the same lifting during fball season as they do the rest of the year?  answer: no

do the kids get the same amount of practice time during the athletic period during the other sports as they do during fball?  answer:  no

[b]what makes the fball coach more qualified to decide what lifts, how much, and when lifting should take place[/b]?
[/quote]

First if he is the A.D.  then he is the boss plain and simple.  During the football season the athletes lift.  Why can't they lift during basketball?  Yes they get the same amount of practice time.  

[Guest speechless]

how do u know they get the same amount of athletic period practice tiem?  you been 2 all of thse programs?

if being the AD is enough to decide what should happen during bball, baseball, or track season then why not save all the isd's some money and just let the AD coach them all to?

[True Blue]

Unless they are shooting free throws and hiting curveballs during football season they are not getting the same practice time.

[mustang]

[quote name="speechless" post="814832" timestamp="1277646102"]
how do u know they get the same amount of athletic period practice tiem?  you been 2 all of thse programs?

if being the AD is enough to decide what should happen during bball, baseball, or track season then why not save all the isd's some money and just let the AD coach them all to?
[/quote]

How do you know that they aren't?  Have you been to all?

You and blue need a crying towel.  Have yourself a good little cry and things will be okay.

[stevenash]

[quote name="tigerguy" post="814848" timestamp="1277655936"]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=70692.msg814832#msg814832 date=1277646102]
how do u know they get the same amount of athletic period practice tiem?  you been 2 all of thse programs?

if being the AD is enough to decide what should happen during bball, baseball, or track season then why not save all the isd's some money and just let the AD coach them all to?
[/quote]

How do you know that they aren't?  Have you been to all?

You and blue need a crying towel.  Have yourself a good little cry and things will be okay.
[/quote]

It doesnt take a mental giant to conclude that if you have a failing basketball program, it is NOT going to improve via universal off season. 

[Guest speechless]

[quote]How do you know that they aren't?  Have you been to all?[/quote]

i been to enuff to know and in this area been seein it for a long time at lots of schools

i aint cryin i got no dog in the hunt

i just know that if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, and barks like a dog....u know the rest