WO-S and penalties

[bullets13]

first off, let me say that I was unable to view your video of the play. I tried on my work computer and my cellphone. second, as you've been 100% insistent that the ball touched him since the play happened Friday, it's strange to me that you're now showing a "not very good video" in which you concede that the ball either touched him or "came dang close". it's also pretty funny to me that you're taking clear video evidence that shows none of the WOS players near the ball treating it as a live ball, all stopping and waiting for it to die (as we've all seen defenders do with rolling punts a million times), and trying to spin that as DT knowing it was touched because after he casually downed the ball he looked at the ref.

[MoFo]

I think the ball hit Jimmy Hoffa and this whole thing is just a plot to cover it up.

[bullets13]

and if those players knew it "may have hit him", then they made terrible plays by not diving on the ball. of course, they reacted when it went close to the HJ player. they were alert when it came close. and when it didn't hit him, they treated it as a regular punt, downing it calmly. and had a single one of them seen it hit him, he would've been diving after the ball. of course, had the HJ player been hit by it, he would've done the same thing.

I'm done arguing about what might've been in the game, but i'll happily argue whether or not this play happened all day, simply as I have seen the play from multiple angles, have seen no proof that it happened, and have seen clear evidence that WOS and HJ players alike surrounding the play saw no evidence that it happened. it fascinates me that WOS fans that have said this play had no bearing on the game are the ones who keep jumpstarting these threads trying to "prove" that the call was correct. not really sure why its happening that way.

[WO-S 89]

Dang I wish that ref would have not said it hit the HJ player and I wish the HJ player would have return the punt for a 90 yard td.  Then the final score would have been WO-S 35 HJ 28 

[whoisatfirst]

42-21. :rolleyes:

[bullets13]

Dang I wish that ref would have not said it hit the HJ player and I wish the HJ player would have return the punt for a 90 yard td. Then the final score would have been WO-S 35 HJ 28

I just wish he wouldn't have tried to make a superstar call and effect the game. I have no clue what the score would've been had that not happened. But it would've been interesting to see how things would've played out.

[griff]

Bullets and mofo…you guys are delirious. It’s now five days and counting.

 

I predict that 10, 15, 20 years from now, there will be a famous story around Sour Lake about the big one that got away. It won’t be your typical grandpa’s fishing fib. Instead, it’ll be about that punt return. Here’s the unavoidable math formula:

 

Continuous chatter about the play + many passing years = story becomes “That’s why we lost the game”

 

Can’t you just hear it now? Years from now there will be posters on this board and fans all over HJ land no longer saying anything about “loss of momentum” or “it unfairly changed the game”. It will eventually become…”That play is WHY we lost the game.”

 

Thank goodness we have so many eyewitnesses to the game who can vouch for what unfolded over FOUR QUARTERS OF PLAY.

 

Some facts about the game worth repeating:

 

1) Except for a span of time in the 2nd quarter, your defense could not stop WO-S.

 

2) WO-S forced you to punt several times.

 

3) Momentum does not win games. Mental toughness does.

 

4) Without the punt play, you still lose on the scoreboard.

 

5) Since you’re fixated on the “what ifs”…what if WO-S goes ahead and punches in another TD near the end of the 4th quarter? We’re deep in the red zone and had time to add another TD. HJ certainly was not going to stop us. Only another parade of yellow hankies would have done that. Add this final drive to the mix, with the punt play, and the score is now potentially 49-21. Without the punt play, it’s still 42-21.   

 

This is the first time ever the WO-S/HJ matchup was even competitive. But, remember...

 

Being able to compete does not mean you can beat. It still ends in defeat.

 

The better team won. Give it a rest.

[bullets13]

griff, Im not sure how someone can read someone say as a disclaimer in just about every post "WOS deserved to win", and still feel like people are saying they did not deserve to win. my theory is that WOS is so accustomed to being able to walk over almost everyone they play that when they take a horrendous call they're so much better than everyone they just easily move past it. Very few times in the last few decades have you been in games where you were an underdog needing some breaks to have a chance at a win.

As to your points:

1. WOS had exactly one drive after the first quarter where they scored on a long drive on HJ. they benefitted from two 20-yard fields and a returned fumble. they did not run rampant on HJ the whole game as you would like to believe.
2. This is true. As it was expected to happen. I didn't see HJ throwing up 35 on WOS, and they were unable to do so. WOS has a fantastic defense.
3. This may be the case, but when you're an underdog playing one of the best teams in the state, there's no way to measure how much effect having your momentum taken away from has on you, especially when it was through no fault of your own.
4. agreed. and have said as much. not sure how you missed that.
5. WOS continued to run plays with their 1st string running back until the final whistle and were unable to punch it in. And you can talk all you want about the yellow flag parade, but if you were at the game you should clearly remember that the vast majority of the penalties on WOS came on their three long drives in which they scored, and two came on HJ's first drive where they didn't. whether or not you thought the refs were unfair, or terrible, all of this conjecture that WOS had all of their drives stalled by penalties is simply imagined.


As to your last statements, being able to compete does mean you're capable of beating. HJ is definitely good enough to catch some breaks and pull an upset. hopefully we play again, and see what happens. and i've said the better team won about 15 times already. so no need to give that a rest.

[MoFo]

Ha yep

[wo-s#1]

griff, Im not sure how someone can read someone say as a disclaimer in just about every post "WOS deserved to win", and still feel like people are saying they did not deserve to win. my theory is that WOS is so accustomed to being able to walk over almost everyone they play that when they take a horrendous call they're so much better than everyone they just easily move past it. Very few times in the last few decades have you been in games where you were an underdog needing some breaks to have a chance at a win.

As to your points:

1. WOS had exactly one drive after the first quarter where they scored on a long drive on HJ. they benefitted from two 20-yard fields and a returned fumble. they did not run rampant on HJ the whole game as you would like to believe.
2. This is true. As it was expected to happen. I didn't see HJ throwing up 35 on WOS, and they were unable to do so. WOS has a fantastic defense.
3. This may be the case, but when you're an underdog playing one of the best teams in the state, there's no way to measure how much effect having your momentum taken away from has on you, especially when it was through no fault of your own.
4. agreed. and have said as much. not sure how you missed that.
5. WOS continued to run plays with their 1st string running back until the final whistle and were unable to punch it in. And you can talk all you want about the yellow flag parade, but if you were at the game you should clearly remember that the vast majority of the penalties on WOS came on their three long drives in which they scored, and two came on HJ's first drive where they didn't. whether or not you thought the refs were unfair, or terrible, all of this conjecture that WOS had all of their drives stalled by penalties is simply imagined.


As to your last statements, being able to compete does mean you're capable of beating. HJ is definitely good enough to catch some breaks and pull an upset. hopefully we play again, and see what happens. and i've said the better team won about 15 times already. so no need to give that a rest.

not sure if I'm reading this right but on your #1 I can't remember any fg

[bullets13]

No, I meant two twenty yard fields as in taking over after the punt call and taking over after the INT on or very close to HJs 20 yard line, thus only having to work on a "20 yard field" instead of having to sustain long drives to score. Sorry for the confusion.

[wo-s#1]

No, I meant two twenty yard fields as in taking over after the punt call and taking over after the INT on or very close to HJs 20 yard line, thus only having to work on a "20 yard field" instead of having to sustain long drives to score. Sorry for the confusion.

gotcha

[Gasilla]

griff, Im not sure how someone can read someone say as a disclaimer in just about every post "WOS deserved to win", and still feel like people are saying they did not deserve to win. my theory is that WOS is so accustomed to being able to walk over almost everyone they play that when they take a horrendous call they're so much better than everyone they just easily move past it. Very few times in the last few decades have you been in games where you were an underdog needing some breaks to have a chance at a win.

As to your points:

1. WOS had exactly one drive after the first quarter where they scored on a long drive on HJ. they benefitted from two 20-yard fields and a returned fumble. they did not run rampant on HJ the whole game as you would like to believe.
2. This is true. As it was expected to happen. I didn't see HJ throwing up 35 on WOS, and they were unable to do so. WOS has a fantastic defense.
3. This may be the case, but when you're an underdog playing one of the best teams in the state, there's no way to measure how much effect having your momentum taken away from has on you, especially when it was through no fault of your own.
4. agreed. and have said as much. not sure how you missed that.
5. WOS continued to run plays with their 1st string running back until the final whistle and were unable to punch it in. And you can talk all you want about the yellow flag parade, but if you were at the game you should clearly remember that the vast majority of the penalties on WOS came on their three long drives in which they scored, and two came on HJ's first drive where they didn't. whether or not you thought the refs were unfair, or terrible, all of this conjecture that WOS had all of their drives stalled by penalties is simply imagined.


As to your last statements, being able to compete does mean you're capable of beating. HJ is definitely good enough to catch some breaks and pull an upset. hopefully we play again, and see what happens. and i've said the better team won about 15 times already. so no need to give that a rest.

To many words... You must learn to get your point across in 2,000 words or less... :)

[Gasilla]

first off, let me say that I was unable to view your video of the play. I tried on my work computer and my cellphone. second, as you've been 100% insistent that the ball touched him since the play happened Friday, it's strange to me that you're now showing a "not very good video" in which you concede that the ball either touched him or "came dang close". it's also pretty funny to me that you're taking clear video evidence that shows none of the WOS players near the ball treating it as a live ball, all stopping and waiting for it to die (as we've all seen defenders do with rolling punts a million times), and trying to spin that as DT knowing it was touched because after he casually downed the ball he looked at the ref.

You got me, I made it all up. I created that video in my secret studio in my shop out back... Good call... Can't get anything by you. I've been telling my wife that I need better quality video equipment, but she says I need a raise first. Crap!!! 

[griff]

griff, Im not sure how someone can read someone say as a disclaimer in just about every post "WOS deserved to win", and still feel like people are saying they did not deserve to win. my theory is that WOS is so accustomed to being able to walk over almost everyone they play that when they take a horrendous call they're so much better than everyone they just easily move past it. Very few times in the last few decades have you been in games where you were an underdog needing some breaks to have a chance at a win.

As to your points:

1. WOS had exactly one drive after the first quarter where they scored on a long drive on HJ. they benefitted from two 20-yard fields and a returned fumble. they did not run rampant on HJ the whole game as you would like to believe.
2. This is true. As it was expected to happen. I didn't see HJ throwing up 35 on WOS, and they were unable to do so. WOS has a fantastic defense.
3. This may be the case, but when you're an underdog playing one of the best teams in the state, there's no way to measure how much effect having your momentum taken away from has on you, especially when it was through no fault of your own.
4. agreed. and have said as much. not sure how you missed that.
5. WOS continued to run plays with their 1st string running back until the final whistle and were unable to punch it in. And you can talk all you want about the yellow flag parade, but if you were at the game you should clearly remember that the vast majority of the penalties on WOS came on their three long drives in which they scored, and two came on HJ's first drive where they didn't. whether or not you thought the refs were unfair, or terrible, all of this conjecture that WOS had all of their drives stalled by penalties is simply imagined.


As to your last statements, being able to compete does mean you're capable of beating. HJ is definitely good enough to catch some breaks and pull an upset. hopefully we play again, and see what happens. and i've said the better team won about 15 times already. so no need to give that a rest.

 

Your "disclaimers" of WO-S being the better team are overrun by all of the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" and "but" and "what ifs" explanations. I don't think you really believe WO-S is the better team. Instead you believe HJ was the victim of a bad call in a game you should have won. 

 

We "benefitted from two 20 yards fields"...this is so stinking hilarious! So, this wasn't such a big deal since we had the ball so close to the end zone after a INT that we forced and a fumble we pounced on? I'm sorry...next time we'll look past the turnovers and treat it like a touchback. That way we can start at the opposite 20 yard line just to make it fair. Also, it'll look better on the stat sheet so you can be really impressed that we had to march the length of the field. I guess we'll have to work harder to impress you next time. 

 

As for the "returned fumble"...part of being a good team is capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. We did that. You might not be impressed that it doesn't show an 80 yard drive as how the score was accomplished, but that's the game of football. 

 

And that last drive in the 4th quarter...we were "unable to punch it in." Lol!!! Weren't you the same person who complained on another thread that we should have kneeled the ball and ran out the clock in that series? Dude, if we wanted to score there, we could have. Teate (#13) had just broke (another) long run against you and were were primed to punch it in. Our QB was using up as much of the play clock as he could just to end the game. If it wasn't a three TD lead and late in the game, we WOULD have scored there. Nothing HJ did made us "unable to punch it it."

 

Good grief, man! Between you and I, which one of us has been posting about this topic NON STOP for five days? Therefore, which one of us really needs to give it a rest?

[bullets13]

If you don't want me to post, perhaps don't quote what I say and argue points with me? Or better yet, don't call me out by name and criticize me and then act put out when I have something to say about it. I could care less if you agree with me on anything, but just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm obligated to quit talking, especially if you address me personally. Or perhaps if you don't want to hear HJ fans talk about the game, stay out of the game thread?

[bullets13]

You got me, I made it all up. I created that video in my secret studio in my shop out back... Good call... Can't get anything by you. I've been telling my wife that I need better quality video equipment, but she says I need a raise first. Crap!!!

I didn't say anything that. I just found it odd that you've gone from saying with certainty that it was a good call to now saying it was at least "very close to touching him", with some theories about reactions and body language thrown in that are contrary to what the tapes I've seen actually show. coincidentally, they sound similar to some theoretical statements I'VE made in this thread that have been roundly criticized by you and other WOS posters. As for the tape, that was a legitimate statement. I was wanting to watch it and was unable to.

Griff, I sincerely hope you don't mind my responding to him. He had in fact personally addressed me.

[griff]

If you don't want me to post, perhaps don't quote what I say and argue points with me? Or better yet, don't call me out by name and criticize me and then act put out when I have something to say about it. I could care less if you agree with me on anything, but just because you think I'm wrong doesn't mean I'm obligated to quit talking, especially if you address me personally.

 

Mission accomplished...that was less than 2,000 words. Did you run out of bullets?

 

Gasilla...it's safe to read this one. 

 

Oh, believe me...I don't think you'll quit talking. 

[bullets13]

If my usual post is 2000 words then the one you directed at me earlier was 1950 ;)

[griff]

If my usual post is 2000 words then the one you directed at me earlier was 1950 ;)

 

Accumulation counts, as well. My nearly 800 posts compared to your 21,000+...and most of yours were made since the HJ vs. WO-S game.  :D

 

Carry on...

[bullets13]

Ha. I would argue that no more than 35% of my 21000 posts are on this thread, rendering your "most" comment incorrect, and further solidifying the fact that all of my points are right, and that all of yours are wrong. :) ;) :)

[bullets13]

All jokes aside, I've wanted out of this thread since about 1130 Friday night, but either someone comments directly on one of my posts (or five people do, which really makes it snowball), or someone will make a post that I can't pass up (the same way that mine make many people react). So please, regardless of whatever you take from this thread, please know that I have the utmost respect for your team, as well as WOS fans. And most importantly, I do believe that WOS DESERVED TO WIN THE GAME!

[skipper]

Bullets and mofo…you guys are delirious. It’s now five days and counting.
 
I predict that 10, 15, 20 years from now, there will be a famous story around Sour Lake about the big one that got away. It won’t be your typical grandpa’s fishing fib. Instead, it’ll be about that punt return. Here’s the unavoidable math formula:
 
Continuous chatter about the play + many passing years = story becomes “That’s why we lost the game”
 
Can’t you just hear it now? Years from now there will be posters on this board and fans all over HJ land no longer saying anything about “loss of momentum” or “it unfairly changed the game”. It will eventually become…”That play is WHY we lost the game.”amen

 
Thank goodness we have so many eyewitnesses to the game who can vouch for what unfolded over FOUR QUARTERS OF PLAY.
 
Some facts about the game worth repeating:
 
1) Except for a span of time in the 2nd quarter, your defense could not stop WO-S.
 
2) WO-S forced you to punt several times.
 
3) Momentum does not win games. Mental toughness does.
 
4) Without the punt play, you still lose on the scoreboard.
 
5) Since you’re fixated on the “what ifs”…what if WO-S goes ahead and punches in another TD near the end of the 4th quarter? We’re deep in the red zone and had time to add another TD. HJ certainly was not going to stop us. Only another parade of yellow hankies would have done that. Add this final drive to the mix, with the punt play, and the score is now potentially 49-21. Without the punt play, it’s still 42-21.   
 
This is the first time ever the WO-S/HJ matchup was even competitive. But, remember...
 
Being able to compete does not mean you can beat. It still ends in defeat.
 
The better team won. Give it a rest.

Bullets and mofo…you guys are delirious. It’s now five days and counting.
 
I predict that 10, 15, 20 years from now, there will be a famous story around Sour Lake about the big one that got away. It won’t be your typical grandpa’s fishing fib. Instead, it’ll be about that punt return. Here’s the unavoidable math formula:
 
Continuous chatter about the play + many passing years = story becomes “That’s why we lost the game”
 
Can’t you just hear it now? Years from now there will be posters on this board and fans all over HJ land no longer saying anything about “loss of momentum” or “it unfairly changed the game”. It will eventually become…”That play is WHY we lost the game.”
 
Thank goodness we have so many eyewitnesses to the game who can vouch for what unfolded over FOUR QUARTERS OF PLAY.
 
Some facts about the game worth repeating:
 
1) Except for a span of time in the 2nd quarter, your defense could not stop WO-S.
 
2) WO-S forced you to punt several times.
 
3) Momentum does not win games. Mental toughness does.
 
4) Without the punt play, you still lose on the scoreboard.
 
5) Since you’re fixated on the “what ifs”…what if WO-S goes ahead and punches in another TD near the end of the 4th quarter? We’re deep in the red zone and had time to add another TD. HJ certainly was not going to stop us. Only another parade of yellow hankies would have done that. Add this final drive to the mix, with the punt play, and the score is now potentially 49-21. Without the punt play, it’s still 42-21.   
 
This is the first time ever the WO-S/HJ matchup was even competitive. But, remember...
 
Being able to compete does not mean you can beat. It still ends in defeat.
 
The better team won. Give it a rest.

[skipper]

AMEN

[stangx2]

(yawn)