gogo173489

5 hours ago, catfever said:

Nothing special about the cut. #24 ran from the wing to the block and his defender was watching the ball and had no clue where his man was. Heads up play by the PG to see him through some traffic, but not good defense by the cougars in that situation.

Just saw the video and you're exactly right. 

9 minutes ago, Johnny Carson said:

First game I saw this year. Cougars fought hard to get back into this with Anahuac making a play in the end.  Connell for Buna is the real deal and was the best on the court all night. Real question is can Buna beat Kountze in Kountze, I don't know if they can after what I saw last night. Kountze is probably going to return the favor from this past football season.

I feel good about Buna beating Kountze twice. Not sure why, but I watched the EC/Buna and OF/Buna games, and Buna was just a play or two away in both of those games as well as the one last night. Neither Kountze/EC or Kountze/OF were competitive games, and Kountze lost to Anahuac by 6. It'll be a good game, but I think Buna is the better team this season.

20 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's a simple cause/effect problem.... There's a shortage of officials, so the quality of the officiating has gone down.  

There are a multitude of reasons, but the main thing is the abuse that officials have to endure these days.  You can recognize that fact, or ignore it and watch as the sport(s) suffer.  Whether "Dad" wants to believe it or not, the refs are the most important people at the game.  Coach has a heart attack?  Assistant steps up.  A few kids go down?  Second string comes in.  Cheerleaders all get knocked up?  Change the school mascot to the rabbits and play on.  Lock the entire audience out of the gym?  Nothing but squeaky shoes.  Refs don't show up?  That's a wrap.  

The blatant disrespect that the OP is tossing in all of his postings is the reason that people don't want to officiate... for any amount of money.  

It's simple.... fan/player/coach behavior is the number one reason for the officiating shortage we see today.  Recognize it or don't.... but that's the problem and "they just need to call better games and then we'd leave them alone" is a really bad plan, Daddy.  

Never said anything like what you're accusing me of. I don't have a son playing currently so your moronic "daddy" comment doesn't apply. What I did say is the inconsistency and knowledge of the rules from officials is an issue. Whether or not you like the way I said it doesn't matter. Also, I've seen very few coach or player incidents this season or in recent seasons. Sure they happen, but it certainly isn't commonplace. The fan interaction is another story. Fans get out of hand often and say things and do things they shouldn't.  However, fans getting on to officials has been part of the game forever, and that isn't going to change. So long as what is said isn't inappropriate it's something that should be expected. It's not something that just started happening recently. 

10 minutes ago, watup said:

Varsity Game= $75.00

Mileage is $20 less thank 30 miles or $35 over $35 miles.

All fees are set by the UIL and go off center point for the Chapter.

 

I'm not just saying come out and officiate, my point is yes there are inexperienced officials working varsity games because everybody wants 3 person crews.  We are constantly recruiting, due to officials retiring, quitting and no big pool of new officials per say, the games are covered with less experience officials.  SETX Chapter had that game your talking about, gogo1734, and the officials never called a timeout because a foul was called first.  A little push and talking occurred and that's when the two players left the bench area.  I talked to the crew and that's why a technical was issued.  It's also clearly on video and you can see an assistant coach holding back the two that left the bench.  Go look at the game film from somebody and you will see it.

This isn't terrible money.. Say there's a 45 minute drive and a 1.5-2 hour game, it's around $20-$25 an hour depending on the distance driven. Could it be more? Sure, but that's not awful by any stretch.

4 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

If I’m not mistaken. The varsity coaches do approve the officials well before the game. They know who and what they are getting and can turn down any official they don’t want. And as far as the experience surely they are required more than a year of before hitting varsity level.  I’ll let one of these officials weigh in on that though 

I did not know that. 

4 minutes ago, watup said:

Varsity Game= $75.00

Mileage is $20 less thank 30 miles or $35 over $35 miles.

All fees are set by the UIL and go off center point for the Chapter.

 

I'm not just saying come out and officiate, my point is yes there are inexperienced officials working varsity games because everybody wants 3 person crews.  We are constantly recruiting, due to officials retiring, quitting and no big pool of new officials per say, the games are covered with less experience officials.  SETX Chapter had that game your talking about, gogo1734, and the officials never called a timeout because a foul was called first.  A little push and talking occurred and that's when the two players left the bench area.  I talked to the crew and that's why a technical was issued.  It's also clearly on video and you can see an assistant coach holding back the two that left the bench.  Go look at the game film from somebody and you will see it.

I was at that game, and I'll tell you there was zero intent of those two players that came off the bench to fight or anything else. They came off with their coach, who was screaming for a time out. (Not sure if your video has sound or not, a lot do not) One official did grant a time out, and that was the argument that occurred afterwards. I was sitting behind the players right around mid-court. I believe the assistant coach went to hold the players back because all of that happened extremely fast. Also, to be fair, players left the bench from both teams, not just one. None that I saw had any intentions of going on the court to fight. The technical foul was only called against one team. 

1 minute ago, Knox34 said:

Man I know I was involved just this last year in youth football little league and right now little dribblers. I know that the lowest of the low. I get it. But we are lucky to get refs to come out. And they are asking for more money and shorter games because of the demand for them. So you have a situation now where they hold all the cards. At this point I believe there are people stepping up and grabbing extra cash because they are desperate. So the only way to solve this problem is to give these guys the respect they do deserve and make it be a fun lovable job again. 

Agreed. Maybe even some transparency from the local chapter that the only officials they have for tonight for (insert game here) are inexperienced and will do the best they can. I think coaches would certainly go easier on them. There's not a lot you can do about fans yelling and screaming. As long as it's not some kind of vulgarities or name calling it is to be expected and is just part of the job unfortunately. 

Just now, bullets13 said:

I think you'd be surprised with how few schools are willing to shell out extra cash for stuff like this.  They're businesses that lose money, and they're always trying to find ways to save, not to increase expenses.  

Understandable, but the price of everything has drastically gone up. I would think it would be understandable the cost of these guys' time would increase as well. 

2 minutes ago, bullets13 said:

Not a bad list.  But who pays for all this?  And who pays for the officials who're traveling to train the crews?  

It would certainly have to be the school's responsibility to pay for the trainee. Of course, I would think there would have to be some communication between TASO and the school beforehand. Also, the trainee would be at a reduced rate since they would not actually be officiating. I believe most schools understand there is a shortage, and while not all would participate I believe may would. Maybe a survey sent out to coaches to test the waters on that aspect of my list would be appropriate before adding training like that.

7 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

I do agree. But I don’t think that’s a competency issue. I believe that’s a grown man tired of getting beat on and wasn’t going to change that call. Which shouldn’t happen but as far as the complaint about getting consistency it’s going to take time right now. I think that’s all anybody is trying to say. We lost a lot of good guys and keep losing more because of the treatment they receive. That’s my point 

I respect that outlook on things. I hate that we lost good ones because of the fans treatment of them, but is this the only reason? Could we get them back for improved pay, or maybe use these guys who quit to train others since they do not want to call games anymore? I agree fans can be obnoxious and rude. I get it. However, most coaches are very respectful and try to talk to the officials about calls they do not agree with. (Not all I know, but most.) Fans giving umpires, refs, etc. a hard time has been going on forever. To some degree, officials have to expect that when signing up to do the job. Threats and waiting for them after the game is what I would think made some of these guys quit. That kind of stuff should never happen, ever. 

1 minute ago, bullets13 said:

I've seen a lot of things you want, but not really any suggestions from you to remedy the problem. In fact, not only do you not want to help in any way, you've also made it pretty clear that you don't care about the fact that these guys are doing this for next to no compensation for the kids and a love of the game.  So apart from having these great officials magically appear that will be willing to put up with the nonsense from players, coaches, and fans while traveling extensively for minimal compensation, what do you propose should happen?

Here you go:

1. Improved training. Not more training but improved training. New officials traveling with an experienced crew to observe and learn would be a good start. Have them involved with the halftime and end of quarter conversations the officials have about the game and how it's going.

2. Better pay. I'm not exactly sure what they get paid now, but from what I've seen on this thread its around $50-$75 a game? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Mileage expense would be a start if the official is traveling more than 25 miles to a game. 

3. A requirement to have 1 year of experience before being allowed to officiate any varsity district game or playoff game. Tournaments and non- district games would be good for experience.

4. More strict rules on fans being enforced at games. One warning for inappropriate conduct and after that its adios. Most fans that are loud and critical of the officials change their tune after a warning. (For that game anyway.)

This in my mind would be a good start.

2 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

The game that Gogo keeps referring to I believe there were 3 technical fouls called on that team that game and I think that might go back to what Coach 01 said!! You treat them poorly show them no respect and you get what you get.  

If it is the same game? I'm not sure. However, treatment of the official bad or good does not justify that kind of call. There was no bad treatment of the official in the timeframe this particular technical foul was called. Looking at it the way you just described is part of the problem. An official making calls because he's pissed at one coach or another is out of line. Just the same as its out of line for a coach to verbally berate an official. I keep referring to that particular call because it was by far the most egregiously poor call I've seen this season. 

4 minutes ago, itsme2 said:

Again you seem to have some knowledge come help out just with training. 

Again with this stuff.. I have no doubt you're one of the good ones just from your post on here. Sounds like you take pride in being a good official and that's fantastic. If we had more like you there wouldn't be an issue. Would people still complain? Sure, that's the nature of the beast, but there would be consistency. Let's be clear on what I'm actually saying with my original post.. I didn't name any official. nor did I say they're all terrible. That's just not the case. The good ones are showing up less often these days because there are fewer of them.

3 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

Don’t know why it’s so hard to understand what Gogo wants…. Highly trained great officials at every 3-4a game across the state of texas. It’s a very simple request.  

No, I want competent officials. Officials that don't call technical fouls for kids coming on to the court during a timeout because he had no idea another official granted the time out. Then, refuse to correct himself because being right was more important than getting it right. Intentional fouls called on kids simply trying to foul at the end of a game to put the other team on the line. An official that understands that going through someone's back to get a rebound is different than a taller player simply jumping higher. You know, simple things. No one is asking for perfection here, just improvement of consistency.

1 hour ago, itsme2 said:

If you don't care why are you on here bashing officials... I will say there are just as many incompetent/horrible officials in other areas of the state/nation by percentage as there are in SETX, you just don't get the pleasure of seeing them on a regular basis to form an opinion that there are better officials outside SETX. I've seen them even worked with them.

Gogo I agree officials should be knowledgeable of the rules and be able to apply those rules  correctly.  Officials should take some pride in themselves to want and be able to call a near perfect game, because if ever as an official call that elusive perfect game she/he should hang up that whistle. Many officials put up the effort to become a decent official but there is a segment that just out there for the $$ and they are just like you THEY DON'T CARE! 

Every season we have you or guys like you to point out how bad the officiating is here in SETX, but again like the other poster mentioned ( where is your solution?) .... I have one if hyou will take me up on it, maybe you with all your basketball officiating rules knowledge come join one of the two local chapters to JUST train/teach the officials (seriously), you don't have to get on the court to call any games JUST HELP US GET TO LEVEL of officiating you so desire! 

Thank in advance 

 

What I want is competence and consistency. Again, all of you guys that believe all officials are beyond reproach and should never be questioned about anything at all regarding their part-time jobs, always making the suggestion that the people who want consistency should become officials themselves are unrealistic. how about the local chapter do what they can to make the officials they have better? I get it, a lot of people just complain to complain. I'll give you that. I'm not that guy. I don't say anything at the games. The majority of the games I watch I have no rooting interest in. I've never seen the officiating in this area as bad as it is now, and I've been watching games for 25 years or so.

1 hour ago, itsme2 said:

If you don't care why are you on here bashing officials... I will say there are just as many incompetent/horrible officials in other areas of the state/nation by percentage as there are in SETX, you just don't get the pleasure of seeing them on a regular basis to form an opinion that there are better officials outside SETX. I've seen them even worked with them.

Gogo I agree officials should be knowledgeable of the rules and be able to apply those rules  correctly.  Officials should take some pride in themselves to want and be able to call a near perfect game, because if ever as an official call that elusive perfect game she/he should hang up that whistle. Many officials put up the effort to become a decent official but there is a segment that just out there for the $$ and they are just like you THEY DON'T CARE! 

Every season we have you or guys like you to point out how bad the officiating is here in SETX, but again like the other poster mentioned ( where is your solution?) .... I have one if hyou will take me up on it, maybe you with all your basketball officiating rules knowledge come join one of the two local chapters to JUST train/teach the officials (seriously), you don't have to get on the court to call any games JUST HELP US GET TO LEVEL of officiating you so desire! 

Thank in advance 

 

I don't care that it's their part time job. I should have been more clear.

24 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

Know what post I've never seen?  I've never seen someone say, "I decided to become an official and help.  I've heard there's a shortage and I'm not satisfied with the product I've seen during games when it comes to officiating... So I'm going to be proactive."

What I HAVE SEEN... is a seemingly endless amount of whining and complaining.  I suppose it's easier to be an expert from the bleachers. 

Yet another response saying "everyone who has an issue with officials should become one." It's quite a silly suggestion. Some probably have an issue with the window person at McDonald's getting their order wrong all the time. Does that mean they should go work part-time at McDonald's to correct the issue? Maybe a part-time gig at Academy because you can never get help there when needed? How about going to work at your local grocery store part-time because the check out lines are slow? 

7 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

So the issue is just southeast texas officials? They aren’t having these same problems in other areas? 

The 8-10 games I've seen that were officiated by chapters outside of setx were called light years better than any game I have seen in setx this season. 

4 hours ago, Knox34 said:

You can’t get officials to stay around long enough to be good anymore. People start bashing them and threatening officials as young as little dribblers all the way up to jv level. Those guys can only handle so much crap before they get to the point of handing over the whistle as you say. I’m assuming in your years of watching basketball you have made all the correct calls from the stands and never missed one? If any fan thinks the officials cost them the game they are truly an idiot and were probably brought up around someone who blamed officials. Teach these kids to take responsibility and that one call didn’t cost them the 5 prior turnovers or bad shot selection cost them. Them not getting back on defense cost them. Not the “over the back” call you thought he missed. I’m going to assume Gogo has never volunteered to officiate even at the youngest stages of the game and doesn’t realize how hard of a job those guys have out there and grew up blaming his failed basketball career on bad coaching and the officials. Otherwise would have gone pro. 

I'm 5'8'' and didn't have much of a basketball career. I played. That's about it. Typical response by someone who has no good information to contribute. Resorting to an attempt to make fun of someone, etc. I have officiated numerous little dribblers and little league games as a volunteer, so you would be incorrect. Please go back and site any part of any post I have made where I'm blaming officials for costing kids a game. I'll wait. Again...... All I'm saying is the officiating is setx is bad and is getting worse. 

20 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

The issue is guys like you. You might not want to face it. But that’s the reason. So you can either do something to help change it or sit aside grope bitch and tell people all your great ideas and do nothing. 

I know it's always easy to blame someone else for others' mistakes or shortcomings. It's not the fault of "guys like me" that officials don't know the rules. That's on them. A better job needs to be done. I don't have all the answers, but there is certainly an issue that seems to be a greater issue in our area than in others. What are other officiating chapters doing differently than setx? It would be a great place to start.

16 hours ago, Cherokee88 said:

 

I would disagree, typically is a car salesman is a full-time employee and has been trained for years on the best sales tactics and business practices. A high school basketball official is typically someone who does it part- time and is truly doing the best job possible with limited time and resources. 

 

I also know that if you have a vested interest in a team as a fan you are going to view the game differently than someone who is non-biased. In my 30 plus  years of watching HS basketball, I have seen very few games where an official or officials cost another team a game.

C'mon man. They hire 18 year old car salesman out of high school with zero experience.

2 minutes ago, Knox34 said:

Once again you’re missing the point…. The varsity level officials don’t just start as varsity level officials. Just think about it for a minute. They work their way up  good officials don’t become good from the start.  That is the point 

I do get it. I just don't care. The best officials need to officiate the varsity games. If these are the best setx has to offer, then there is an internal issue somewhere.

4 hours ago, Knox34 said:

You can’t get officials to stay around long enough to be good anymore. People start bashing them and threatening officials as young as little dribblers all the way up to jv level. Those guys can only handle so much crap before they get to the point of handing over the whistle as you say. I’m assuming in your years of watching basketball you have made all the correct calls from the stands and never missed one? If any fan thinks the officials cost them the game they are truly an idiot and were probably brought up around someone who blamed officials. Teach these kids to take responsibility and that one call didn’t cost them the 5 prior turnovers or bad shot selection cost them. Them not getting back on defense cost them. Not the “over the back” call you thought he missed. I’m going to assume Gogo has never volunteered to officiate even at the youngest stages of the game and doesn’t realize how hard of a job those guys have out there and grew up blaming his failed basketball career on bad coaching and the officials. Otherwise would have gone pro. 

Again, we're not talking about little dribblers or junior high basketball here. Only varsity level. Also, only setx officials.

12 hours ago, watup said:

We are always looking for officials.  Basketball training starts Tuesday after Labor Day and we have training sessions every week till end of November.  Then we still meet on Sunday’s, twice a month, throughout the season which ends in March.  We have to take test to be eligible to officiate.

Typical non answer without any solution to the problem at hand. Let's blame everyone else for the poor officiating and try to hand them our whistle when we hear about it. Sounds like you guys do a lot of training and testing. Is it possible the training and testing should be reviewed and updated? That's not a rhetorical question. If there's that much training and testing before you can officiate, then why do so many officials not know the rules? Again, I'm not talking about all officials, but only SETX officials. You go to Houston or Dallas and its completely different. 

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