elhector1

[quote name="ChampionEagles" post="682845" timestamp="1256213264"] [quote author=bearbryant link=topic=60857.msg682811#msg682811 date=1256203124] It usually doesn't bother the coaches to hear fans yelling at them.  Most know that the football dads don't know a thing about football.  Makes for many field house laughs.  A lot of it is jealousy.  These football guru's work in fields where their job is just a job.  Other than getting off for the weekend their job gives them no excitement.  Not that way with coaching.  Most 'football guru dads" couldn't even tell you if thats a 2tech or 3 tech, is it a read defense or an attacking defense, cover 2,3,4 or man coverage, loose 9 or an 8 tech, stunting from stemming, o line rule blocking or zone blocking, log block from a kickout.  People have such a sense of entitlement. "I pay taxes therefore I can say what I want". "Its my first amendment right".  Yes you do pay taxes but so do the coaches, Yes its your right but its also other peoples rigth to see you as a fool. The same guy thats badmouthing the coaches from the stands is usually the same dad thats acting as the coaches friend, always hanging around the fieldhouse glad handing them.  We all know the old saying. Every team needs that perfect coach who knows when to play the best kids, in the right positions, run the right plays, run the right defenses, make all of the exact correct adjustments....... But they can't get him to put his popcorn down and come out of the stands. [/quote] And we also know coaches that don't know these things. Knowing these things also doesn't make the person automatically then use them correctly. Opinions are opinions. Any job that is "public" based has the same things. Coaches are not alone. Police, Firemen, Soldiers, etc. all get the same thing in different degrees. Some coaches also look for any excuse to justify their dismal performance, including telling the kids on the field that the "experts in the stands got his job" a direct quote. Not all coaches deserve to be followed blindly.  [/quote] Those that can, do.  Those that can't, sit in the stands and arm chair coach...

guilty... I guess I come from the perspective of having been on the sidelines and in the dugout as well as in the stands. I've had parents yell at their 5 year old to "get your a** up" when the kid was playing earthmover with her glove. I've seen an uncle try to climb a backstop. I've seen parent come on to the field after a great block in flag, and get upset that the kid did his job, and want to fight...All of these idiots were exercising the "1st Amendment right" when they opened their mouths. But, can you imagine what it's like to be their kid? I've seen the faces of children burn with embarrassment because their mom or dad was a jacka**. You may want to get upset, but I can tell you, from experience, when you make it about you and your "rights" you've lost any regard you have for how kids will react. There are ways to handle poor coaching than on the field or in the stands... On the other side of the coin..."free babysitting" parents burn me up...these folks hardly ever go to their kids games. It's painful to see a kid look toward the sidelines with an expectant look, only to see no one there for them. I have seen more than a few kids with raw talent waste it away because they never got to shine in front of a parent or relative. They get their kids involved in extrachariccular (sp?) activities just so they can have more "presonal time". i like when they drop them off at practice and ask "what time is practice over?" i learned to just start telling them "i'm not sure...it depends on how it goes" of course, then they say, well i need to run some errands, here is my cell # if you need me. we had a kid w/ braces get hit in the mouth last bb season and the braces got caught way up in his cheek. daddy was gone on a beer run and didn't show up until 45 minutes after the fact. the kid had to wait cause we couldn't see what to do and didn't want to hurt him. the dad showed up drunk and the kid was near tears getting in the truck out of embarrassment. it really sucks when the kid is more mature than the parent.there have been situations where you have "2 household" children, and the sets of parents get into arguments in the stands or the fenceline about the kid...and proceed to tear each other to pieces in front of everyone, but mostly in front of their kid. That's selfish...1st amendment right? Yep...but I have learned that for every right, there is also a RESPONSIBILITY to exercise that right with good judgement. When you don't, you don't lose the right...but you sure look like a jacka** in the process...and it's never you that pays for that...it's your kid...

guilty... I guess I come from the perspective of having been on the sidelines and in the dugout as well as in the stands. I've had parents yell at their 5 year old to "get your a** up" when the kid was playing earthmover with her glove. I've seen an uncle try to climb a backstop. I've seen parent come on to the field after a great block in flag, and get upset that the kid did his job, and want to fight...All of these idiots were exercising the "1st Amendment right" when they opened their mouths. But, can you imagine what it's like to be their kid? I've seen the faces of children burn with embarrassment because their mom or dad was a jacka**. You may want to get upset, but I can tell you, from experience, when you make it about you and your "rights" you've lost any regard you have for how kids will react. There are ways to handle poor coaching than on the field or in the stands... On the other side of the coin..."free babysitting" parents burn me up...these folks hardly ever go to their kids games. It's painful to see a kid look toward the sidelines with an expectant look, only to see no one there for them. I have seen more than a few kids with raw talent waste it away because they never got to shine in front of a parent or relative. They get their kids involved in extrachariccular (sp?) activities just so they can have more "presonal time".

it's the idiots that define the others though...when there are no rules in place, then the idiots feel they have every right to be over the top...that it's their "1st amendment right" or that a coach is in that job so he "has to take it". Bull...a coach is there to motivate the athletes, and get them to play better, and keep them safe on the field. SOmetimes, after many seasons of consistent failure, then you might have a case...but idiots see one loss as a world ending event. Look at the "Sheperd board member" thread...that lady with the electric horn, blowing it, on the VISITOR's field, using the VISITOR's electricity, felt it was her "right" to be an idiot...I am glad a board member from Shepered exercised his right,a nd cut electrical cord...

Kind of read through everything here...and so I thought I'd take a crack at things... As a former coach of the little ones, screaming at coaches and officials starts young...young mamas and daddies expect perfection. When they realize that the coach or ref is human, it doesn't matter to them...they have to show little Johnny "support". So getting in coaches' faces and reffree faces is the way they manifest this. Where it bus the doo out of me is when it's a volunteer league, and the people there are not paid, but doing it on their own time. It seems that the people who do the least are the ones who act like jack***es the most. Getting back to the paid folks... 1. Referees...there is a crew of refs for football, all trying to make sure that the rules are being followed, and trying to stay out of the way of 250 lb Bubba Jack, and the additional 350 lbs hanging on to him as he lumbers toward him. It's hard to be in position on every play, so sometimes an interference call isn't, and sometimes it is...most of these guys try their best to do the job. They even take the complaints in stride...some even have favorite ones. "Hey ref, we found your cell phone, says you missed a couple of calls"...etc...all this to say that if your going to yell, at least have a little class, and make it interesting... 2. Coaches...I will be the first to plead guilty to bashing a coach...but it wasn't because of his football coaching abilities, it was because of a host of other things...that being said, coaches have a crew as well...they try to motivate a team, fill out papperwork, teach classes, all of this so your rears can sit on the sidelines and scream at them...Many of you say that they chose that profession...true...AND YOU DIDN"T, simply because you know it's easier being an armchair quarterback, than a real coach. I can tell you that it was the wrong play every time...after it happens. If it works, I will say that I would have done the same thing. How about letting the guy on the field do things? The best little players I ever coached had parents who would encourage, and let me coach, and let the guys assisting me coach. The worst ones? The ones where mommy and daddy were on the sidelines or in the bleachers trying to coach...

As a former Indian, (though from another Tribe), I can tell you that from what I have seen, most schools that have an Indian as their symbol have a lot of spirit. But, when your mascot does a war dance, insure that he is in his tribal lands...not on someone else's reservation, or for that matter....ahem...cave. Else said mascot will find his feather ruffled by the grassy plain of the football field...1999 LCM game, for example...? UUUUUUUHHHHH......OK... ??? ??? 1999 LCM vs PNG game, at LCM...Indian mascot does his war dance on the 50 yard line...Bear mascot tackled him, resulting in: 1) Bear mascot being suspended; 2) Tribe mascot eating grass; 3) Up until this year, Bear mascots being female...though there's a couple of these beautiful young ladies that would have taken out the Tribe mascot had he done it again...lol... ;D

As a former Indian, (though from another Tribe), I can tell you that from what I have seen, most schools that have an Indian as their symbol have a lot of spirit. But, when your mascot does a war dance, insure that he is in his tribal lands...not on someone else's reservation, or for that matter....ahem...cave. Else said mascot will find his feather ruffled by the grassy plain of the football field...1999 LCM game, for example...?

You are correct about this happening because he is a good player. Is that shocking or unexpected? There are hundreds of arrest a week in the Golden Triangle area and lots of them felonies. I don't see a lot of them being discussed. Let one of the people be the mayor of a city or a school board president and watch the words start flying. When you are someone in a community whether it is because you play football or you are a school teacher or you are a local official, then it becomes news that people will discuss. That is the nature of the beast and always will be. As far as someone being considered a minor, there are all kinds of definitions of what is a minor or juvenile, according to which Texas code you are talking about. You are criminally an adult at 17 and no longer have the protection of being a juvenile in either charges being filed or your name being released. You have to be 18 to vote or buy cigarettes. Curfew violations take effect when you are younger than 17. You can't buy a pistol or alcohol until 21, yet you can buy a rifle or shotgun at 18. You can be issued a traffic citation at 14 years old. Age depends on which particular law you are talking about and you can be both a minor and an adult at the same time, according to which code applies to your situation. Such as the Alcohol Beverage Code, the Education Code, the Family Code, the Government Code, the Transportation Code, the Penal Code, etc. Being a student has no effect on the age of any code except the Education Code that deals with school rules. Being a high school student offers no exemption or relief from the other codes as far as age. Your points would be valid had a crime, whether misdemeanor or felony, actually happened. That isn't the case, as even the news outlet that released the name said it was a violation of the code of conduct. My point is that your discussion of what constitutess legal adult age by citing what is a legal adult with regard to crimes can be misconstrued and add to the rumor fire by confusing people into thinking that a crime was committed as a part of the code of conduct violation. No crimes were committed., and all your examples by using crimes as definitions of adulthood is misleading. In this case, for the purpose of defining an adult, what is the school board or disrict policy for defining an adult? From my understanding, as long as the person is a student, names can only be relaesed with regard to scholastic or athletic participation, like UIL competitions. A name can't be released if it has to do with disciplinary measures.. WOS-C released his name in violation of this.

I have a couple of problems here.... 1. A few posters, in discussing the ages of the people involved, start bringing up what is considered an adult, or the age of majority. In doing so, to bolster their argument, they use phrases and examples that refer to crimes and felonies. In this situation, where rumor is rampant because the full details are nor known, such speculation can lead to additional rumor and confusion that the actions were criminal. They were not. Speculation about age should be about what the school regards as an adult. NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED, NO FELONY WAS COMMITTED, NO MISDEMEANOR WAS COMMITTED. 2. As to releasing the name of one individual, why was this? Was it because he is a good player, which shows the dual edge of this forum? We wouldn't discuss him if he wasn't good, so his name was released because he is good? Also, if the school rules consider him a student, isn't that considering him a minor, especially at age 17? If this is the case, didn't whoever release his name also violate the cherished "code of conduct" that WOS-C has in place? And if they did violate the code of conduct, should they be suspended from work WITHOUT pay?

we will pray for him, his family and all those affected by this...

Agreed skipper...agreed

speveto, most of us are defending Trey...so read before you post... Shly, I agree...there are a lot of things that students do as a part of "growing up"...and athletes are not immune to those things...in this case, what, in the past might have been handled by a coach with extra "work time" and by a sponsor with extra "work" time as well, becomes a school board issue. There are so many things that people have done as a part of "growing up" and have gotten caught doing, and faced consequences that were of a temporary nature. Now, it turns into a citywide issue...but as T-Daddy says...if the story gets out, people will go..."they got suspended for THAT?"...That particular activity has become a national issue because our nation is full of "part time prudes"...but I think that if it happened on campus, okay. If it was something that happened off campus and was not a public danger or a destruction of property, then where does the school bard, or even the school have a say in it? elhector, it sounds like we basically agree. we just have a different way of expressing ourselves. I did say that "I dont fit in". I WAS ONLY SPEAKING TO CERTAIN PEOPLE, NOT YOU. coolness...sorry...

speveto, most of us are defending Trey...so read before you post... Shly, I agree...there are a lot of things that students do as a part of "growing up"...and athletes are not immune to those things...in this case, what, in the past might have been handled by a coach with extra "work time" and by a sponsor with extra "work" time as well, becomes a school board issue. There are so many things that people have done as a part of "growing up" and have gotten caught doing, and faced consequences that were of a temporary nature. Now, it turns into a citywide issue...but as T-Daddy says...if the story gets out, people will go..."they got suspended for THAT?"...That particular activity has become a national issue because our nation is full of "part time prudes"...but I think that if it happened on campus, okay. If it was something that happened off campus and was not a public danger or a destruction of property, then where does the school bard, or even the school have a say in it?

By not releasing the details of "teens doing what teens do", those of us with no knowledge of the situation tend to get ideas that may not be true. All we see is that he is suspended from school and there is a special board meeting called tonight to discuss the action. Sounds pretty serious to me. If it was a minor infraction, I would think, that the coach would handle it with a few extra sprints and then it's over. But special board meetings and hush, hush, antics scream of something more serious. Not trying to stir the pot, just letting you know what it is like on the outside looking in. No doubt, reb. But this is one of those cases where the other person involved got the hammer dropped on 'em, so I think Coach Hooks was forced to do the same to Trey. What the kids did was stupid, but not criminal, and not something that would harm or endanger the public or property. I understand that the admins are trying to do the right thing here, but, if it is some minor infraction(inappropriate photos, etc) it just seems that it would benefit the kid, the school and the family, to get it out in the open where it could then fade away. It's the secrecy that keeps this story alive. If it's just some "kids being kids" and everyone knew that, this story would be old news by now. JMO Agreed...Knowing Trey and his family, I think it's also a case of not involving the other party, though I think that the other parties' benefactors are the ones that wanted an "equal justice" to take place. So does that equal justice now mean that the person's name will be put into the paper just like Trey's was? I think it would be fair, if this truly was an issue of fairness. However, I think that it must remain in the school board's hands, and I hope that the board rights the over-reaction that has taken place by re-instating both parties, and also letting the public know what happened, so it, as you say, can fade away.

Ain't gonna bump no mo', with no big fa....oooowwww!, stop hitting me! It's just the words to a song!!!

By not releasing the details of "teens doing what teens do", those of us with no knowledge of the situation tend to get ideas that may not be true. All we see is that he is suspended from school and there is a special board meeting called tonight to discuss the action. Sounds pretty serious to me. If it was a minor infraction, I would think, that the coach would handle it with a few extra sprints and then it's over. But special board meetings and hush, hush, antics scream of something more serious. Not trying to stir the pot, just letting you know what it is like on the outside looking in. No doubt, reb. But this is one of those cases where the other person involved got the hammer dropped on 'em, so I think Coach Hooks was forced to do the same to Trey. What the kids did was stupid, but not criminal, and not something that would harm or endanger the public or property.

So since the WOS issue was in the Beaumont Enterprise today, according to your reply, it should be open for discussion today? Please Clarify. Post away, if it is in the newspaper. I personally could care less it isn't about football so I probably wouldn't open the thread. It has everything to do with football. Especially football in West Orange. When your University of Oklahoma bound star athlete does something that, potentially, could get him suspended for the rest of the season, it dramatically affects football perspective. That could be HUGE come playoff time when they will need him to be able to compete with the elite. It is a huge deal. OK sounds like a good topic, let'r rip. I beleive it's less a matter of the seriousness of the offense, and more of a matter of "tit for tat" with regard to the other party involved. To me, with this level of "offense" (please note the sarcasm), a warning to both of the parties involved would have been sufficent. But, because the other person involved was kicked off their organization, permanently, then parties associated with this person felt that Trey should suffer the same fate. In today's meeting, reinstation and a warning should be the norm for ALL parties involved, and no one should have to suffer permanent consequences for the actions. Again, a case of "holier than thou" rather than protecting the public interest or safety. There was...and is...NO danger to the public.

Though I won't discuss the details of anything, suffice it to say that I know the Franks family, and I strongly beleive that Trey's trangression is not of the physical kind, but of the silly "teen doing things teens do" kind, albeit with a new technological twist. If you applied the same standard to everyone that was applied to Trey and anyone else involved in this, you would have very few band members, few members of athletic groups, and probably even a few teachers would hit the road. Everyone involved is in trouble because of serious overreaction by many parties involved. Hopefully, Trey will not lose his commit to OU. If he does, I am sure that Mike Price over at UTEP would take him in a heartbeat, as he has previous experience dealing with runaway "holier than thous".

I hate to tell you guys, but Texas would fall off into the Gulf of Mexico...if OU didn't suck so much...

to the Bear football team...I apologize for being a fairweather fan, and leaving at the start of the 3rd quarter. You showed incredible drive and determination in coming back from a large deficit to win the game. I will not jump on the bandwagon now, because I wasn't fully in your corner then. You deserve the props for taking back the win, and beleiving in yoursleves when many of us didn't...

Thank you Anafanatic...I feel better now...I'll sit outside the cave and get a suntan...what's that? raindrops?...figures...lol

For LCM fans...."Gloom, despair, and agony on me, deep dark depression, excessive misery, if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all, gloom, despair and agony on me"....thank you Hee Haw! followed of course by... Stand By Your Man... (combined WOS-LCM choir)

see Coop?...what I tell ya...I'll go back in my cave and hide now...

thanks Coop...I put this on here yesterday, and not a peep out of anyone...you put it up...instant sensation...you ARE the Master!...lol

[Hidden Content] In Texas, if this had happened, there would have been at LEAST 12-13 daddies on the sidelines waiting for the refs...but they would have gone after the wrong guys, just like the losing coach is doing...y'all remember Leon Lett? Same situation, only the kicking team recovers and makes the TD. Wow...even in flag football, I always told my kids to listen for the whistle, and not the screams on the sideline or a "possible" flag pull. Guess this coach needs to instruct in at least ONE of the fundamentals.