what is ok to use for a mascot...

[PoppaBearstarr]

I have seen some of it on the news and some of it on different threads, so lets talk about it. My personal opinion is that the indian nation shouldn't be upset I looked at it as they were honoring your heritage. Please shed some light on it for me, is it trademarked or something.

[Cardinal Supporter]

I think PNG seeked and got permission from a Cherokee tribe to use the word "Indians" as their mascot. I'm not sure if they had to have permission to have their fight song "Cherokee" approved or not.

[uknowit2]

I guess the point is it doesn't matter what you or I think when it comes to deciding what other races or religions think is insulting to their heritage. Native Americans have spoken loud and clear as it relates to this subject. Kids dressing up in faux costumes and jumping around in some sort of 'war' dance isn't the way they want their culture represented.

How could 'Redskins' somehow honor the Native American heritage?

The word 'Indian' is an insult in itself. Some lost European dude washes up on an island and thinks he's in Asia, India to be exact. The people there must be Indians. If we were to follow through and correct that mistake we would solve this issue at last. We would have the Mighty PNG Americans.

I would be more than happy to respond to any reasonable counter-argument. But I will not reply to the weasels who's only retort is an insult.

[PNG1992]

I guess the point is it doesn't matter what you or I think when it comes to deciding what other races or religions think is insulting to their heritage. Native Americans have spoken loud and clear as it relates to this subject. Kids dressing up in faux costumes and jumping around in some sort of 'war' dance isn't the way they want their culture represented.

How could 'Redskins' somehow honor the Native American heritage? How about the Washington Blackies or Washington Crackers?

The word 'Indian' is an insult in itself. Some lost European dude washes up on an island and thinks he's in Asia, India to be exact. The people there must be Indians. If we were to follow through and correct that mistake we would solve this issue at last. We would have the Mighty PNG Americans.

I would be more than happy to respond to any reasonable counter-argument. But I will not reply to the weasels who's only retort is an insult.

using the nickname "Redskins" and having a pic of a redfaced indian on your helmet could be considered offensive, I 100% agree.

using the name "Indians" and honoring the traditions of a real Indian tribe and getting the seal of approval from the same Indian tribe is not insulting, its an honor to them. I know you can see the difference and this is why PNG will more than likely never change their name. This is also why teams like Florida State weren't forced to change their mascot while many other NCAA teams were.

but to answer the original question, anything should be ok to use. Some people are waaay to easily offended. Thats JMO.

[swampdude]

I have a problem with the "PC" police nationwide that insist on everyone sanitize our history and bend over backwards to not offend often ultra-sensitive people.  We have the "Fighting Irish", no problem there.  The "Ragin' Cajuns" don't seem to have anyone upset.  Now if the mascot brings derision and ridicule to a group or individual, there is a problem.  Now comes the case of PN-G (who I have kidded my PN-G pals of being akin to a cult!) . I have never seen their Indian mascot portrayed with anything but dignity and respect by the purple nation.  I, being a White guy, would have no problem with any team called the "Crackers" or "Honkies" although I am not sure why anyone would choose such an antiseptic mascot!!  Let each school or team decide their own mascot.  If people within their group have a problem with it, let them  be heard among their team.

[uknowit2]

How does one letter, from lord knows how long ago, represent the feelings of the millions of Native Americans? The NCAA may never have the guts to remove the Seminole mascot but the courts will. To say PNG will never replace the 'Indian' is delusional. The school will do whatever the UIL and courts decide they will do.

[PNGFan]

How does one letter, from lord knows how long ago, represent the feelings of the millions of Native Americans? The NCAA may never have the guts to remove the Seminole mascot but the courts will. To say PNG will never replace the 'Indian' is delusional. The school will do whatever the UIL and courts decide they will do.

Are you Native American?

[tvc184]

How does one letter, from lord knows how long ago, represent the feelings of the millions of Native Americans? The NCAA may never have the guts to remove the Seminole mascot but the courts will. To say PNG will never replace the 'Indian' is delusional. The school will do whatever the UIL and courts decide they will do.

Exactly how is it that any court will remove a name from a team mascot? I think you are putting way too much thought or hopes for a court that has no jurisdiction in that venue.

Ever hear of the concept of freedom of speech? Political pressure might get someone to change but it will not be from a court ordering it.

[YankeeDawg]

IMO, someone, somewhere would be able to find any particular name insulting if they tried hard enough.  It's all in their perception and narrow mindedness (and probably lack of anything better to worry about) .  Just like that thing with Costilow real estate.  No hint of racism was evident but that one lady decided it offended her..so she made an issue out of it.

I guess the animal kingdom must really be up in arms about the names given to some sport teams...Broncos and Bengals and Cougars and Jaguars.  Birds must have a gripe also..Cardinals and Seahawks and Orioles and Bluejays.  Don't forget groups of people...Pirates, Vikings, Cowboys and Giants and even us Yankees  ;D.  And what about the....you get the idea.

Now if a derogatory name was used, that's a whole other story.  I being of Italian ancestory, wouldn't be real happy with a team called for instance the Houston Guineas or New York Degos.

Get over it!!  Stop the frivolous whining.  There are many more important things in this world to worry about than a team name.

WOW...that got me 3 smites...

[besbolbenbedygud]

This is a direct quote from Buck Ford's book "Down Trails Of Victory."

  "For the record, the Indians of PN-G have the blessing of the Cherokee Nation.  In a 1980 newspaper article titled, "Tribe Joins Cherokee Nation," Ross Swimmer, chief of the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma, said:

We the Cherokee Tribe feel privileged that your school has chosen to use "The Cherokee" as your fight song.....The Cherokee have always been a stoic people with a strong will to win and even in defeat, hold our heads with dignity and pride.  It is my understanding that your school has this quality of winning and holds the Cherokee spirit high for everyone to see." (pg 433)

First, it was not as long ago as you think.....

It's not about gaining respect, or representing the feelings of every Native American.  The fact is respect was gained from this Native American Chief from the Cherokee themselves.  Native Americans themselves saw each tribe as a separate group.  Just having a treaty with one group, of Lipan Apache tribe, did not mean all of the others would abide by it....right or wrong.....each had their own chief......each did as they felt they should to survive, with out consorting with any other tribe of the same name.......Gaining the Respect of the highest authority from one of the most historic Native American comunities should be enough.

I hope this was as a respectfull rebuttal without offending anyone with Native American ancestry!!

If it's only the name 'Indian' people have beef with then the Port Neches-Groves Karankawa would be just fine with me...It's more 'Historical'....as they are the Native American group that occupied this land.

[Guest tigersvoice]

IMO, someone, somewhere would be able to find any particular name insulting if they tried hard enough.  It's all in their perception and narrow mindedness (and probably lack of anything better to worry about) .  Just like that thing with Costilow real estate.  No hint of racism was evident but that one lady decided it offended her..so she made an issue out of it.

I guess the animal kingdom must really be up in arms about the names given to some sport teams...Broncos and Bengals and Cougars and Jaguars.  Birds must have a gripe also..Cardinals and Seahawks and Orioles and Bluejays.  Don't forget groups of people...Pirates, Vikings, Cowboys and Giants and even us Yankees  ;D.  And what about the....you get the idea.

Now if a derogatory name was used, that's a whole other story.  I being of Italian ancestory, wouldn't be real happy with a team called for instance the Houston Guineas or New York Degos.

Get over it!!  Stop the frivolous whining.  There are many more important things in this world to worry about than a team name.

WOW...that got me 3 smites...

Well Yank, I just gave you a love tap.  And this is the hardest thing I've ever said, "I like your style and your input."  Welcome to Texas, Yank.  What brought you down here to the

land of rednecks? 

[PNG1992]

IMO, someone, somewhere would be able to find any particular name insulting if they tried hard enough.  It's all in their perception and narrow mindedness (and probably lack of anything better to worry about) .  Just like that thing with Costilow real estate.  No hint of racism was evident but that one lady decided it offended her..so she made an issue out of it.

I guess the animal kingdom must really be up in arms about the names given to some sport teams...Broncos and Bengals and Cougars and Jaguars.  Birds must have a gripe also..Cardinals and Seahawks and Orioles and Bluejays.  Don't forget groups of people...Pirates, Vikings, Cowboys and Giants and even us Yankees  ;D.  And what about the....you get the idea.

Now if a derogatory name was used, that's a whole other story.  I being of Italian ancestory, wouldn't be real happy with a team called for instance the Houston Guineas or New York Degos.

Get over it!!  Stop the frivolous whining.  There are many more important things in this world to worry about than a team name.

WOW...that got me 3 smites...

150% agree but dont forget about the National Federation of Worldwide Pirates being upset with MLB's "Pirates" and the NFL's "Bucs." Lord knows they really were upset with the old Tampa Bay Orange uni's...the horror.

I myself as a Cajun American am very offended by USL's use of the the term "Rajun Cajuns"...what steps do I need to take to get that ball rolling???? 

[YankeeDawg]

IMO, someone, somewhere would be able to find any particular name insulting if they tried hard enough.  It's all in their perception and narrow mindedness (and probably lack of anything better to worry about) .  Just like that thing with Costilow real estate.  No hint of racism was evident but that one lady decided it offended her..so she made an issue out of it.

I guess the animal kingdom must really be up in arms about the names given to some sport teams...Broncos and Bengals and Cougars and Jaguars.  Birds must have a gripe also..Cardinals and Seahawks and Orioles and Bluejays.  Don't forget groups of people...Pirates, Vikings, Cowboys and Giants and even us Yankees  ;D.  And what about the....you get the idea.

Now if a derogatory name was used, that's a whole other story.  I being of Italian ancestory, wouldn't be real happy with a team called for instance the Houston Guineas or New York Degos.

Get over it!!  Stop the frivolous whining.  There are many more important things in this world to worry about than a team name.

WOW...that got me 3 smites...

Well Yank, I just gave you a love tap.  And this is the hardest thing I've ever said, "I like your style and your input."  Welcome to Texas, Yank.  What brought you down here to the

land of rednecks? 

mighty neighborly of ya Tiger.thanks

been down here since '85..came for a 2 year stint with a shipping company, met my then to be wife and decided I could live with fire ants, skeeters the size of birds, 90% humidity and the fact that I could fish in December without cutting a hole in foot thick ice.  (I even say "fixin to", ya'll" and "ma'am and sir")