JimThorpe

I was hoping for a blizzard or something.  But it will be perfect weather.  Well, so be it.  Once more into the breach dear friends, once more!

For the benefit of our Carthaginian friends who may be interested, that last line is from a play called "Henry V" by an English playwright named Shakespeare.  Since Carthage was besieged and utterly destroyed during the Third Punic War 146 BC, it's unlikely they would know anything about an English play, or even England for that matter.  How the Romans made it to Texas I have know idea.

Carthago delenda est.

Tonight may not be the biggest game ever for Silsbee, but it would be the biggest win ever.  

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

Argyle median household income-$110,000
Silsbee median household income-$33,000

Obviously there are other variables..and rules to this exception.  But this makes a little bit of a difference.

Differences such as money and time and transportation for exclusive sports camps, children's and youth sports leagues and so on.  

1 hour ago, L-Train11 said:

This is a new era for Silsbee football, new coach with a new mentality. There’s no reason why they couldn’t be ranked in the top 10 or even 5 each year. I think he’s (coach smith) pretty close to getting that mentality instilled into his players. This could be the year that they break the Carthage curse. But at the same time, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Carthage win this game. Should be fun to watch!

One thing may be different.  We seem to be able to reliably kick an extra point now.  Maybe it's a fluke, a one season deal, but it's gratifying.   Our kicking game in the past was, how shall I say it, somewhat less than optimum?  I'm reasonably sure that most of our past Tigerettes could have routinely kicked a 13 yard field goal but not, apparently, any our varsity football players.

I don't know.  Besides being a little embarrassing, it seemed to betoken a lack of seriousness in the program.  Perhaps I'm being unfair but it often looked like an important part of the game was being overlooked.

3 minutes ago, Wise Old Owl said:

I saw the movie, but I'm not certain what this means?  Their players are robots?

No, they are cybernetic life forms. 

I'm kidding of course.  But mixed with the teasing there is a tiny bit of resentment (or is it perhaps jealousy?).  Also I'm talking about the original movie from 1975 - not the remake.  The reference is to how methodically and almost mechanically good that school is at EVERYTHING.  The Eagles are sometimes in the top 10 in all three major sports.  It's remarkable actually.  Athleticism is absolutely not the reason this is happening.  There is that of course but really it's discipline, skill, methodical - almost mechanical execution and coaching.  And the most important component is parenting.

Just look at basketball.  Their girls and their boys both made it to the state tournament.  The girls won their third straight championship and for the boys it came down to the last shot in a 1 point game against our top ranked Tigers.  And yes, Argyle certainly could have beaten Brazosport and taken the crown. 

One thing for sure.  Nobody would ever accuse us of being robots.   

If the Tigers survive it doesn't get much easier.   Counting Carthage, 9 of the top ten in Div 1 made it thru the Area round.  Only Estacado has been knocked out.  La Vega, the Stepford Children at Argyle, Midlothian, Kennedale, all the usual suspects.  On any given night any of those top schools is capable of beating the others.

It's a spectacular Regionals weekend in for 4A Div 1. 

No. 3 Argyle vs. No. 8 Stephenville

No. 4 Kennedale vs. No. 5 Midlothian

No. 2 La Vega vs. No. 6 Canyon Lake

No. 7 Liberty Hill vs. No. 10 China Spring

Carthage is the only surviving top 10 team not facing another top 10 team.  Isn't that interesting?  Is it an easy week for the Bulldogs compared to their fellow Top 10'ers.  Objectively you'd have to say yes.  But.... who knows?

Carthago delenda est.

31 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

That could have been said for Silsbee "****" when Central hit about 20 three's in a row in first quarter and a half.

Ain't it the truth!  We were shell shocked!  We kept thinking that it couldn't go on forever but it almost did.  Silsbee kind of helps it along by over committing trying to generate turnovers.  And to make matters worse the Tigers were as cold as ice from outside.  Even missing the rim on occasion.

The difference was, as usual, transition ball.  Even Silsbee Lite with the short bench is just relentless at pushing it.  But you really don't have much choice when you're starting 5 guards do you?  Don't care what you call them, they are all guards.  I almost wish they would drop the pretense when announcing the lineup and just admit it,  "At guard This One, and at guard That One.  Starting at guard Another One, at guard Yet Another One.  And finally, starting at guard A Fifth Guard.  But it's always great fun and the results have been pretty good.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that should Silsbee pull this one out it will be the biggest win in school history.  Carthage is No. 1 - undefeated - we haven't beaten them in this century - just last year we had them on the ropes only to have our hopes dashed in the last seconds.  Chances like this don't come around every day.  I don't know how our kids feel about it seems like it would make them want to play every down as if it's the end of the world.  There are no other games.   This is the only game.  The emotional edge should go to the Tigers.  And it's a game of emotion.

A lot of us remember a time when Silsbee won this kind of game.  In 98 the Tigers met No. 2 ranked West Orange in the first round.  Silsbee had a good team and had a modestly successful year.  A very good Dayton team won the district that year and Silsbee was a respectable 2nd place.  It was a strong district.  My daughter was a senior that year and my son was a sophomore.  Unbelievable win.  We were helped by the elements, a small late season storm was blowing in off the Gulf.  Course it was almost a foregone conclusion that Stephenville was going to win state that year, but we had a very good run.  Came out of nowhere and made it to the quarter finals.  Ironically that was the last time we beat Carthage.   I think it was the second round and we met in Conroe.

As a French High grad I was there when the Buffaloes wrote the book on coming out of nowhere.  All of us Buffaloes remember 84.  Every week it was like, did what just happened really happen?  It was like riding a magic carpet all the way to Texas Stadium and the Permian Panthers and the only Championship tie in Texas UIL history.  An unheralded, unknown, 6-4 district runner up team makes it to the championship game and plays the most famous high school program in the nation to a stand still.  Don't say it can't happen - I saw it happen.

Interestingly, we had just moved back from Odessa in 82.  We had experienced a couple of seasons of Mojo football during the Wilkerson era.  My wife's stepmother was a Panther and my sister-in-law graduated from Permian.  We were of course familiar with dynasties having lost to PNG in my junior and senior year in the first round.  Both years the Indians made it all the way to state.  We had the misfortune of being right next door and an early victim.  In 75 I think we had better talent.  We were stronger bigger and faster.  We just weren't quite as good.  We came closer to beating them than anybody else that year.  We held them to 6 points but only managed a safety.  Interestingly that year they beat Permian for the title.  

Anyway.

Carthago delenda est

Central  found themselves right at that moment in the 3rd where they could have broken.  But they wouldn't go quietly into the night.  They are a good team.

19 hours ago, Wise Old Owl said:

REBgp commented on Carthage's ability to make halftime adjustments.  The Bulldogs' final non-district game this season was against Gilmer, which was ranked #2 in the state at the time.  The game, which was played in Gilmer, was sold out during the week of the game. The Bulldogs, who have been ranked #1 in the state all year, trailed at halftime 28-13.  

The 2nd half was a different story.  Carthage outscored the Buckeyes 35-0 in the final 24 minutes to win 48-28.  The Bulldogs' defense limited Gilmer, which had more than 350 yards of offense in the 1st half, to only 50 yards in the 2nd half and scored 2 TDs on back-to-back Buckeye possessions. This is a dramatic example of Carthage's ability to adjust at the half.  

It's a dramatic example of an excellent coaching staff.  Hopefully their abilities are well known and appreciated and they will all take jobs at bigger schools or colleges during this off season.

My motto for this week comes from Cato the Elder.  He ended all his speeches in the Roman Senate with the following.....

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse."

Translation:  "Furthermore, I consider that Carthage must be destroyed."

P.S.  The last time we beat them I think Cato was still alive.

Carthage is 12-0 and ranked No. 1 in Div 1 in the last regular Season Dave Campbell ranking, along with all the other usual suspects.  So there's that for whatever it's worth.

Carthage is Carthage but I don't think we yet know just how good Silsbee is.  Being originally a Beaumont French Buffalo I never discount an unranked unheralded team who despite a modest regular season seems to be peaking at the perfect moment.  There is such a thing as over achievement.

In retrospect it was a great win but it was not a great game.  If you measure against the standard set in the North Forest game it was disappointing.  I think the kids would agree.  The match up was challenging for Silsbee to be sure. But when you miss everything by at least 4 feet when shooting an open 3 you know it's going to be more difficult than you would like.

At one point in the third the Tiger's FG% was 19.  It ended up at 33 and 50% from the line and that was enough.  It won't, of course, be enough against the Exporters who are better than Argyle.

On the positive side it was down right heroic if you ask me.  I'm so proud of them that I could bust.  It's like the line from the movie Galaxy Quest, "Never give up, never surrender!"

I love those men and women and thank God for them.  The officials are the essential ingredient to rewarding organized sports.  

But shamefully I yell at them just the same.  It's like an annoying and undesirable reflex.  So I apologize in advance for tomorrow.

2 minutes ago, AggiesAreWe said:

no

Who was taller?

Is Lipan the tallest 1A team ever?  

1 hour ago, rider78 said:

Why would she make something like that up? Now you read between the lines oldschool2.

Not trying to say you didn't see what you saw.  But in Region III I saw no evidence of anything like that.  Doesn't it seem unlikely that the systematic bias you describe could occur at the State Tournament.  In that environment an official would do everything he could to call the game as well and as fairly as possibly.  Practically the entire royal court of Texas high school basketball will be in attendance including all the UIL basketball big shots. Bright lights from past teams are all around waiting to be honored at half time.  Sports press from all over state with their laptops at the ready.  A zillion cameras.  Fans from all over.  

3 hours ago, oldschool2 said:

I'm biased toward "discipline basketball".  I'm not saying that I hope Silsbee loses...or that I think Argyle will win.  I'm just saying that I'm a fan of the way basketball is played when athleticism isn't the only thing that matters.  I'm also not saying that the game hasn't adapted to benefit bigger, stronger, faster players.  Because it has.  I'm just saying that there is a reason that a VAST majority of college and pro teams play basketball of the old ways.  Man to man defense, half court offense.  I love it.

Both styles are fun, though...to watch and to play.  I just think that one style has lasted through the ages, and the other was a flash in the pan and is now dying. 

If you can push the ball up fast, or in Silsbee's case crazy fast, why wouldn't you want to do that?  You can always pull up and settle into an offense if a quick scoring opportunity doesn't materialize.  Doesn't it give the opponent something else to worry about?  Doesn't it make their guards, and even small forwards, think twice before helping on the offensive boards?  It's the middle of the 4th quarter and you are nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opponent race back on defense the whole game?

If you're deep and quick and opportunistic why wouldn't you want to go with a full court defense?  You don't have to trap every time and take chances every time.  But take them out of their comfort zone and make them work a little to get the ball up the court.  Again, it's the middle of the 4th quarter and you're nursing a 14 point lead.  Is it better or worse for you that you've made the opposing ball handlers work hard all game long to get the ball to front court?

As far as the refs go I haven't observed any real bias displayed by the officials in the games I've seen.  Looked to me like their only interest was getting it right according to their training and understanding.  Now some refs are not super great at their job, some are barely competent, some will be good but need experience, some are really good and some are excellent.  We're getting the cream of the crop in San Antonio.  I have confidence in them.

That doesn't mean I won't go absolutely ape over a particular missed call at a crucial moment.  I rationalize by convincing myself that I'm just trying to encourage a make up call.  Yea, right.  

Our problem is not missed calls and it's certainly not bias.  Our problem is that UIL rules fundamentally disfavor the Silsbee Tigers.

The most extreme example is the shot clock.  The UIL has steadfastly refused to consider it.  And the reasons are good ones.  But Silsbee would thrive in an environment with a  shot clock.  Heck, they'd thrive in world with a 10 second shot clock!  And even that might be too long.  It's like watching speed chess or something.  A foundational rule of high school basketball in Texas fundamentally does not favor the Silsbee Tigers.  And it never will.  So from my perspective we're being cheated ALL THE TIME!  And I am kind of joking.  I certainly don't expect a shot clock.

A less extreme example is the 10 second rule.  What if it was 8 seconds?  In Silsbee's case it would simply be sauce for the goose.  They'd get caught now and then but in the main it would be a huge benefit.

So the officiating Friday will favor Argyle because the rules favor Argyle.  And they favor Argyle in ways so profound they dwarf the occasional missed traveling call or a particular official's interpretation of what is or isn't blocking.  The refs will be counting all the way to 10 in the back court and they will let the Falcons hang on to the ball in the front court without shooting just as long as they're able.

All we can do about it is have a different kind of team.  Anybody want that?  I thought not.  Me either.  So all we're left to do is fuss and fume and deal with it.  And monitor our blood pressure.

33 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

No surprise to what happens next...2 opposite styles of play are about to square off.  Silsbee will no doubt try to speed the game up.  Argyle will most likely try to slow it down.  I think whichever team is successful at doing that will probably win.  We'll see what happens.

And that's what makes it so interesting and why I hoped Silsbee would draw Argyle so they definitely get to play each other.  I love it when styles clash.  You don't get that too much at the higher levels.  Everybody has pretty much the same "style" and it's dictated by the shear size and athleticism of the players.  I have no doubt that Argyle will have some success during the game doing their thing and Silsbee will have some success doing their thing.  A blowout won't help either team going into Saturday.  

My ideal situation is a game like the Yates game but not quite as close.  Silsbee wins by 23 this time - but it's closer than that.  Silsbee gets the lead early and keeps the lead but Argyle it is competitive all the way until early in the 4th when Silsbee pulls away the last few minutes are comfortable. That way my wife can go to the box office early and buy tickets for Saturday.

I don't ask for much do I?  Just to have things my way, that's all.

1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

I said this last week:

There always seems to be a team (recently) that this style just doesn't work against.  I personally thing that the SeTx staple of (run em into the ground) is a thing of the past when it comes to winning it all.  It's been a decade or so since all you had to do was scare a team into turning it over and win a state championship.  I'm not saying Silsbee isn't good enough to win it all...or that they won't.  I'm just saying that there will come a time in the season where they'll have to play basketball and not press a team into oblivion. 

We will see if I'm correct or not.  It's looking to me like Silsbee will have to pull out their half court game.

 

Not press them into oblivion but press them to a nice 15 point win.  With Silsbee's personnel you go tight full court man to man with impromptu traps.  Then full speed transition on offense.  With this group that's the path to victory against all 4A comers.  It's the best route against everybody, big kids, little kids, kids that climb on rocks as the old Oscar Meyer song went and yes, even kids with chicken pox.  Now if a tall 6A team gets accidentally thrown in against these 4A schools then yea, we'll have to rethink.

3 hours ago, BADSANTA said:

Silsbee will have to force Argyle to play into their tempo. Argyle is very good defensive and does a lot of things well. Silsbee will need to play sound defense and stay out of foul trouble. I still think Silsbee is the better team and wins this one. Go get em Tigers!!! 

And they can do that when they have the ball.  Silsbee can force the action on offense against just about anybody.  The Tiger transition game is rocket propelled.  Even after made baskets Silsbee is sometimes down the court in 2 seconds.  Actually they are more like cheetahs than tigers in that regard.

On defense the Tigers will have to be crafty cats.  Of course full court one on one pressure as always.  Never let them walk it up.  With the athletic and sneaky defenders Silsbee has that's a given.  But I'd be careful with pressing and trapping.  Give it a try but I have a feeling Argyle will be up for that challenge and could get some unnecessarily easy transition baskets out of it.  Don't let the Eagles add a bunch of needless transition points to the inevitable half court points.  But I'm sure the Coach is way ahead of us on all this.  Like the insurance add, he know's a thing or two because he's seen a thing or two

The wild card as always is Silsbee's 3 point shooting.  If the Tigers can hit just 35% the Eagles will be flying back to the nest Friday evening. 

You mean the two kids who were Silsbee's contribution to the Region III All Tourney team, one being awarded MVP honors?  Those two?  Hmm....... let me think.  

Why yes now that you mention it.  They may indeed have been somewhat helpful to the Tigers.  

I have a lot of respect for those Yates kids.  They showed a lot of grit all week long.  They were challenged by determined teams on Monday and on Friday and they came through.  And yesterday in the 3rd quarter they were down by 18 and a hair's breadth from being blown out by the best team in the state but they dug deep and rallied and made a game of it.  And in doing so they made the Tigers also have to dig deep themselves to pull out the win.  I think this kind of win helped the Tigers.  A worthy opponent.

I was proud to give the Lions a standing ovation as they were recognized as Region 3 runners up.  

Didn't see the game of course, but Argyle's 19 point win over Paris sounds like a defensive masterpiece.  They held opponents to an average of 37.  And along the way they blew out a number teams.  

But I think it's a great matchup.  It's the one I wanted.  Both teams can play good half court basketball.  Argyle is probably better at that, obviously.  But I wonder if Argyle has faced anyone who pushes the ball up the court with the semi-maniacal intensity that Silsbee often displays.  Average times of possession less than 5 seconds range.  The Tigers' passing game is sometimes more like football than basketball.  It's like they are running posts and deep outs.

I think the contrast will contribute to a fabulous game.