Green Menace

The really good, fast-with-the-feet, big linemen, or "Big Uglies" as we like to call them, are some of the hardest players to get.  Usually the AQ teams from the big power conferences get the cream of the crop.  Next, the "non-AQ" or mid-majors get their share of the good linemen.  Many programs rely on a few good ones that fall through the cracks or the occasional diamond in the rough, coupled with recruiting the Junior Colleges.  It's tough getting the linemen that make a difference. During Darrell Dickey's time at North Texas, which produced some incredibly good rushing attacks and national rankings a few times, he would recruit decent sized tight ends out of high school.  The 6-4 or taller variety, about 235 lbs, and put them on a weight program during their redshirt year.  Many ended up around 6-4, 290+ pounds, and could move. All-Pro Guard Brian Waters of the Kansas City Chiefs started as a tight end at UNT, 6-3, 234 pounds, move to the offensive line.  Now he's 6-3, 320! Lamar and other teams at the FCS level have a great advantage, in that they can sign transfers from major colleges.  You have several on your team already and are probably contributors on your team.  The players can transfer in and play immediately without sitting out a year (like the are required to do when transferring from one FBS program to another FBS program.  Good way to get good lineman and other positions too. Takes time.

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="904105" timestamp="1289489840"] Something has to be done about the offense.  No rushing TD's is more a problem with the O-line the the RB's, although the play calling and offensive philosphy also has contributed to the problem.  Still,[u] [b]the teams with the best O & D lines generally win championships[/u][/b]. [/quote] Someone finally gets it!  For all of his knowledge of offensive schemes and plays, Todd Dodge never understood the urgency in getting quality offensive and especially defensive linemen.  Loaded up the scholarships with wide receivers.  *sigh*

Hawaii, Louisiana Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, Utah State and San Jose State, plus UTSA and Tx State-San Marcus will be the WAC makeup for football.  Nothing more than a rekindled Big West Conference.  Look for Hawaii to go Indy, and possible La Tech. Sad.  WAC was once a formidble conference.

Takes 2-3 years for a new coach to come into a program and make a difference.  After that, all bets are off. I think Lamar could have done better than hire a JC Coach.  There are quality assistants at major colleges all over that would salivate at the opportunity to be a head coach at the FCS level.

[quote name="bigred360" post="895662" timestamp="1288811327"] [quote author=Green Menace link=topic=75428.msg895621#msg895621 date=1288808327] [quote author=bigred360 link=topic=75428.msg895524#msg895524 date=1288798630] Honestly, I think he thought Riley Dodge would be UNT's QB of the future when he joined the Mean Green back in 2008. He is smallish 6'0, 194 lbs but I've seen smaller at the FBS level. Then look at all that he accomplished at SLC. Part of his bio. at UNT; : Passed for 3,445 yards and 39 touchdowns in 2007 … Carried 131 times for 772 yards (5.5 average) and 13 touchdowns … [b]Was named to the 45th annual 2008 PARADE All-American High School Football Team [/b]… Was recently selected to the EA Sports First Team All-America Multi-Purpose squad for 2007 … [b]Was the 2006 and 2007 Gatorade Player of the Year[/b] … Shared Texas Sports Writers Association 2007 Class 5A All-State Football Team Offensive Player of the Year honors … Was named to the Texas Class 5A All-State team for the second straight season. He knew the system his father was running at UNT so a lot of people thought he would start from day one at UNT. You can count me as one. Then he recruited others. Chase Baine 6'0, 210 lbs out of Lake Dallas HS. John Dodson, 6'0, 195 lbs out of Bishop Lynch HS. Derrick Teegarden, 6'0, 177 lbs out of Odessa HS. Derek Thompson 6'4, 220 lbs out of Glen Rose HS and Nathan Tune, 6'4, 226 lbs out of Celina HS. Another aspect of recruiting a QB at North Texas was the fact Riley Dodge was on campus and is the son of the Head Coach. Honestly, if I'm a QB recruit under those circumstances I probably would not have signed with UNT either. Human nature, a QB recruit would have to prove being a lot better than Riley Dodge or the coaching staff would start the Head Coach's son. Just my opinion as to why more top tier QB's didn't sign with UNT under Coach Dodge's watch.        [/quote] Riley is a good "low level FBS" quarterback and I'm thankful he's at UNT.  But, the fact is, even with all his high school awards, accomplishments and accolades, Univ of Texas originally recruited him as a defensive back. Riley de-pledged UT when his dad took the UNT job.  He reshirted(medical) his freshman year, then played wide receiver until he got hurt in the Rice game of '08. Thompson is the only legit QB, along with Vizza that Dodge recruited.  Nathan Tune was a walkon under during the Daryl Dickey days  Teegarden is a wide receiver and will probably never play QB at UNT. to be honest, there is some truth to having a highly touted QB, who happens to be the coache's son, plying QB.  Could have scared off some good ones. I hope Rile stays healthy since we have him for two more years.  He's a fighter. [/quote] I thought UT recruited Dodge to play WR with his SLC teammate Tre' Newton in the same class. As for as Riley Dodge finishing out his college career at UNT, it depends on where his father lands. If he is at a FBS school Riley will probably stay at UNT as he has already red-shirted (medical) once in 2008. If he (Todd Dodge) were to go to a FCS school, I can see Riley transferring and playing either WR or QB. [/quote] Riley has already publicly stated that he will stay at UNT regardless of what his Dad does.  He  likes UNT and is committed to staying there  Papa Dodge intends to be at the UNT games as a fan.  He went to the Western Kentucky game as a fan.

[quote name="bigred360" post="895524" timestamp="1288798630"] Honestly, I think he thought Riley Dodge would be UNT's QB of the future when he joined the Mean Green back in 2008. He is smallish 6'0, 194 lbs but I've seen smaller at the FBS level. Then look at all that he accomplished at SLC. Part of his bio. at UNT; : Passed for 3,445 yards and 39 touchdowns in 2007 … Carried 131 times for 772 yards (5.5 average) and 13 touchdowns … [b]Was named to the 45th annual 2008 PARADE All-American High School Football Team [/b]… Was recently selected to the EA Sports First Team All-America Multi-Purpose squad for 2007 … [b]Was the 2006 and 2007 Gatorade Player of the Year[/b] … Shared Texas Sports Writers Association 2007 Class 5A All-State Football Team Offensive Player of the Year honors … Was named to the Texas Class 5A All-State team for the second straight season. He knew the system his father was running at UNT so a lot of people thought he would start from day one at UNT. You can count me as one. Then he recruited others. Chase Baine 6'0, 210 lbs out of Lake Dallas HS. John Dodson, 6'0, 195 lbs out of Bishop Lynch HS. Derrick Teegarden, 6'0, 177 lbs out of Odessa HS. Derek Thompson 6'4, 220 lbs out of Glen Rose HS and Nathan Tune, 6'4, 226 lbs out of Celina HS. Another aspect of recruiting a QB at North Texas was the fact Riley Dodge was on campus and is the son of the Head Coach. Honestly, if I'm a QB recruit under those circumstances I probably would not have signed with UNT either. Human nature, a QB recruit would have to prove being a lot better than Riley Dodge or the coaching staff would start the Head Coach's son. Just my opinion as to why more top tier QB's didn't sign with UNT under Coach Dodge's watch.        [/quote] Riley is a good "low level FBS" quarterback and I'm thankful he's at UNT.  But, the fact is, even with all his high school awards, accomplishments and accolades, Univ of Texas originally recruited him as a defensive back. Riley de-pledged UT when his dad took the UNT job.  He reshirted(medical) his freshman year, then played wide receiver until he got hurt in the Rice game of '08. Thompson is the only legit QB, along with Vizza that Dodge recruited.  Nathan Tune was a walkon under during the Daryl Dickey days  Teegarden is a wide receiver and will probably never play QB at UNT. to be honest, there is some truth to having a highly touted QB, who happens to be the coache's son, plying QB.  Could have scared off some good ones. I hope Rile stays healthy since we have him for two more years.  He's a fighter.

One rub against Todd Dodge by most UNT fans was his inability to stockpile FBS quarterbacks at UNT.  Yes, Riley is a fine QB, a fearless competitor, but smallish that he is injury prone.  The only legit QB Dodge brought in was Giovanni Vizza who lasted two years at UNT.  Our #1 QB this season was a walkon(eventually a schooly).  #2 QB was going to redshirt last season but had to play the last three minutes of our last game of the season against Ark State.  Burned the shirt.  Now with injuries, we were down to our 4th stringer.  Thanks to Riley getting "bolted together" after breaking his wrist, he was able to help defeat West. Kentucky. Bottom line, for being such an offensive guru, he sure wasn't much of a QB recruiter.  Just my humble opinion.

I used the OU game to further how ridiculous it was for Todd to bring in high school assistants.  How hard could it have been for a seasoned University of Oklahoma offensive coordinator to outcoach a defensive coordinator(Mendoza) right out of high school?

[quote name="bigred360" post="888238" timestamp="1288123054"] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=74741.msg888234#msg888234 date=1288122879] I think Green Menace is saying the HS coaches don't have success when they go straight to being the head coach at the college level.  Didn't Notre Dame try this recently with a highly touted HS coach and that didn't work?  In hindsight, Dodge probably should have been hired as a OC first at the college level before being the head coach.   [/quote] Well, then in that cast I agree with both of you. I just don't think Todd Dodge is a bad coach as he probably should have got his feet wet as a OC somewhere before taking on a Head Coaching position at a FBS level program. [/quote] Exactly!  I was referring to coaching in HS then going straight to college.  I wasn't referring to the players. Todd Dodge's first game as a college coach in 2007 was against the Oklahoma Sooners in which UNT lost 70-10, or by some other outrageous score.  During the game, early on, OU defensive players reported to their coaches how UNT was playing a very "basic HS defensive scheme", to the point that the players were laughing at how easy it was to score on UNT.  And the HS defensive coordinator turned FBS defensive coordinator in one offseason, Coach Mendoza, didn't have a clue how to adjust to what OU was showing them on offense.  Offensively, all Dodge's offensive coordinator, Todd Ford, could do was run short dump passes of 3-5 yards and some bubble screens.  No adjustments based on what OU was showing them on defense, which was a basic 4-3 scheme.  dodge and company were clueless.  And I'm not trying to say UNT would have won or even come close to winning the game.  Just decrease the amount of embarrassment.  The rest is history.

[quote name="bigred360" post="888150" timestamp="1288116946"] [quote author=puddin tane link=topic=74741.msg887796#msg887796 date=1288065599] didnt set the world on fire before SLC,24-35 never finished above .500 [/quote] Always find a way to find something negative. What do you do for a living? I know I wouldn't want someone to always find something wrong with my job preformance. Then again, I deal will life or death issues everyday and have seen 1993 so there haven't been too many complaints.  ;) As for as Todd Dodge, you didn't mention he was the WR and QB coach at Rockwall and helped the team to the 4A state championship game versus SE Texas own West Orange-Stark. Nor did your post mention his stop at McKinney where they were a run oriented offense and changed the offense to a spread. By 1991, McKinney made it to the 4A regional finals. [/quote] No disrespect bigred360, but talking success in HS football is one thing, FBS is another subject.  HS sucess does not translate to college success.  Never has, never will.

[quote name="badndn" post="886687" timestamp="1287972561"] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=74741.msg886475#msg886475 date=1287954707] Southlake Carroll was good before Dodge arrived and has been good since he left.  You don't have to recruit talent in high school, for the most part it's there or it's not.  I think North Texas misjudged how well Dodge would do as a college coach based on that. [/quote] Wrong! [b]Southlake was great under Ledbetter. They ran one of the Bone offenses backe then in 2A and 3A. They moved up to 4A and didn't have the same success. Made the playoffs a few times, but not deep runs. Dodge got the job, changed the offense and they blew up as they moved up to 5A.[/b]Since he left they have been good, but not great. No deep playoff runs. There is no doubt Dodge had big troubles at UNT, but one thing was for sure, his offenses were still good. Go back and look. UNT scored alot, but they couldn't stop anyone! This is where Todd failed. He never really got a DC or the defensive recruits needed to be successful. I'd take him in a heartbeat as the OC at my favorite school, be it college or HS. [/quote] People, Todd dodge brought HS  assistant coaches with him his firrst year. You don't do that in FBS football, even at the UNt level of play in the Sun Belt.  And, rather than hit the recruiting trail the minute he was hired, he showed up at work after his son finished HS ball at SLC.  He then assembled his HS staff.  His first recruiting class was a disaster.  Still, and despite his horrible record at UNT, many fans hold the utmost respect for him.  A very classy guy upon his dismissle.  So classy that he will be attending the rest of UNT's games to see his son Riley play.

Todd Dodge is gone from UNT.  He was in his fourth year of a five year contract.  Good guy, represented the University of North Texas well, but his success at Southlake didn't translate to FBS success.  Offensive coordinator Mike Caneles will take over as interim coach. Let the search begin.

Thought Lamar fans would find this article interesting.  And for the record, there are only a handful of FBS athletic programs, 20 or so, that make money. [url=[Hidden Content] AD[/url]

[quote name="sleepy" post="867121" timestamp="1286385181"] Far from a bumpkin pal. Trust me I know what it takes to win at D1 college athletics.  I did it at Lamar!!! We are bigger than Monroe and Ruston???????????  Who cares.  They completely suck.  Are we bigger than Denton?  No.  So let's be North Texas. [b]They are currently talking about getting rid of their program.[/b] This program needs local support and the only way to get that is to win. The only place we are going to consistently win is FCS. The minute we stop winning the people in this town quit supporting and that is a simple fact. That is what Beaumont does. We will never be on the national spectrum in football it is a fact of life people.   [/quote] Where did you hear that?  Not gonna happen.  UNT is opening a $78 million dollar stadium next September so there is no way they drop football or even drop down (again) to the FCS level.  There is not talk or even a whisper of dropping FB. And before some of you diss the Troy vs MTSU game being played on a Tuesday night, need I remind you that is how programs like Boise State started out back in their Big West(bottom feeder conference) days and very early into the WAC days.  When it comes to National TV, you play when the networks ask you to.  That's just the way it is these days in college football.  Any national exposure is better than no exposure.  And face it, if your program is not in one of the big 6 AQ conferences, you get what you can. And as to the comment someone made regarding the "lowly New Orleans ", let me remind you that it is just one of way too many bowls that are played each year.  Still, the bowl games are all televised and the exposure to the respective universities is priceless.  Even for North Texas during their four year bowl run.  The New Orleans Bowl is getting more viewers nationally each year that the game is televised. As for UNT and Coach Dodge, Todd is a fine person and a real ambassador for North Texas.  Unfortunately, his success at the HS level has not transpired to wins at UNT.  He will have a hard time winning the 6-7 games he needs to stay at UNT.  We all like him, but he made some critical mistakes from day one of his tenure.  He brought in HS coaches.  Highs school football is slightly different than college football at the FBS level.  Faster, bigger players, speed of the game, etc.  Even at the Sun Belt level.  Todd was a bad experiment that didn't show positive results.  Some say they AD should have been fired for amking such a hire.  Not sure about that.  However, the next hire that is made at UNT has to be the right hire,and that usually means a lot of money!  Four years of Dodgeball and only 6 wins to date will suck the life out of your fan support.

Why are you guys beating yourselves up over this loss?  Man, it's like "jihad" over here.  This was your 4th game in over 20 years.  Sfa has 11 transfers from FBS schools on their rost, plus the team has been around a lot longer than Lamar.  Forget about the game.  Get ready for the next one.  Support Lamar football in good times and in bad.  True fans do that you know.

[quote name="puddin tane" post="855234" timestamp="1285361522"] [quote author=westendfirst link=topic=73261.msg854038#msg854038 date=1285209748] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=73261.msg853539#msg853539 date=1285166718] I find it entertaining to go to the different message boards and see what other fans think of all of this.  On the Sun Belt board they are calling the new WAC the Southland-lite and are laughing.  They look down on any team from the Southland.  UTSA and Texas State think they are better the Lamar even though they haven't accomplished anything in athletics and nobody attends their games.  The other SLC schools think that any school that wants to leave is being a snob. The bottom line is that the SLC gets no respect and is near the bottom as far as conferences go.  There's no money or glory at the FCS level, so even though the WAC seems like a terrible idea, in the long run it may in Lamar's best interest to pursue it.  But if Lamar can't afford to join the WAC then they'll stay in the SLC for a while. [/quote] Gets no respect from who?  The Sun Belt?  Who gives a rats butt about the Sun Belt?!!  Isn't SFA ranked 6th in the country in football?  And McNeese is in the top 15 or something and then how many other SLC schools are at least getting votes.  We tried chasing greener pastures in the past and it killed us.  Screw Denver, and Seattly and all that nonsense. [/quote] The SUN BUST?  shoot..football powers..combined 5-18 record ytd ::) [/quote]Uh, before you start knocking the Sun Belt, why don't you look and see who the SBC teams have gone against in OOC this season.  How about Auburn, Arkansas, Clemson, Minnisota, Nebraska, Georgia, Michigan State, TAMU, among others.  Let me know when you replace Weber International with Auburn or Nebraska and win.  Then start knocking the Sun Belt.  Know what you are talking about before you make a fool of yourself.

[quote name="UNLV" post="853498" timestamp="1285162882"] [quote author=NorthoftheBorder link=topic=73261.msg853327#msg853327 date=1285120171] UNLV I like that Eastern Division just don't now if NM State, Ark State or North Texas are interested. [/quote]NM st is already in the WAC. I hear UNT and Ark st is talking to the WAC. The Sunbelt is looking east for future replacements. This why western members would talk to the WAC. [size=12pt][b]UNT is not first on CUSA list so I guess this explains why they are talking WAC. [/b] [/size] I believe the WAC should form a 7 team eastern division if they want stability. [/quote] UNLV where did you hear that nonsense?  UNT has already done the "western thing" back in the Big West days.  Expensive and tough traveling, especially for the non-income producing sports like tennis, track, volleyball, etc.  Don't think UNT wants any part of the WEST.

[quote name="McNeese72" post="837934" timestamp="1283562350"] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=72367.msg837290#msg837290 date=1283520809] Texas st going FBS will see an instant jump in attendance. Texas st then could bring in home games the likes of BYU, Alabama, K-st, Houston, TCU, and Texas Tech type teams. [/quote] Yep, just like ULL, ULM, North Texas, and Ark St. brings them in. ::) Doc [/quote] Actualy UNT's attendance has increased, even with the crappy teams we have fielded under Todd Dodge.  Plus, anytime we bring in TCU, SMU, Baylor, or other "name" teams, we generally get between 25 to 30,000 fans.  With the new new stadium next year, and home games against Houston and Indiana University, we look to have capacity crowds.

...how excited are you to play a football game for the first time in 20 years?  Be honest.

[quote name="NorthoftheBorder" post="831776" timestamp="1282919757"] I saw on BigRedInsider.com that there may be a Jet flyover for the 1st game.  Now that will be awesome if Jimmy Simmons can pull that off. [/quote] [img][Hidden Content]]

[quote name="UNLV" post="829703" timestamp="1282608376"] [quote author=Green Menace link=topic=71805.msg829684#msg829684 date=1282606867] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=71805.msg829425#msg829425 date=1282578796] [quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055] imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!! [/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc... At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house. [/quote] Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel. [/quote]Come on dude, you're smarter than that. LU would not be a FBS with the current 17,000 seat stadium... [/quote] Then according to your timeline, Lamar better be making plans to expand the stadium to 30,000+...like NOW!

[quote name="UNLV" post="829425" timestamp="1282578796"] [quote author=WOS95 link=topic=71805.msg829414#msg829414 date=1282577055] imo if we move to FBS and are terrible...u can forget about ppl coming to the games..and u can say bye bye to football once again...by the same token if we are terrible in FCS u can also forget about ppl coming to the games....point being just win baby!!! no matter who we play!! [/quote]We need to win. However winning at the FCS will not pack the house especially playing SFA, SHSU, Abilene Christian, Delta st, etc etc... At the FBS level even if we are having a 2-6 season, bringing in Alabama, Texas Tech, Boise st will pack the house. [/quote] Hold on cowboy!  Good luck bringing 'Bama, Tx Tech, or Boise St to Beaumont.  As nice a stadium as you now have, it's not big enough to bring in fans from those universities.  Maybe Boise.  Not sure how they travel.

[quote name="ForeverADog" post="828560" timestamp="1282410578"] Agree completely Terror. I just want to say as far as Lamar goes if they can go FBS they need to go. No doubt in that. I just don't think they can get ready in time. [/quote] Yes they can get to the FBS level.  It may be a reconfigured, lower than the Sun Belt, WAC conference, but that may be all that's available.  You take what you can get nowadays. For Lamar to thrust themselves into FBS- 1. Regardless of how bad or good Lamar's records are over the next few years, win or lose, Cardinal fans must fill their stadium. 2. Lamar alumni, casual fans, or just plain "college fooball fans" must join the Cardinal Club.  Lamar needs 10,000+ in the Cardinal Club. 3. Win, win, and win some more. 4. Simmons should be on speed dial with the WAC commissioner.  The WAC needs teams or they will fold.  Tx State-San Marcus, Lamar, UTSA, and a couple of the Left Coast schools could help keep the conference going. 5. Did I mention selling out Cardinal Stadium (or whatever it's called now) for every game, win or lose. And for the record, UNT has had a standing offer to join the WAC for several years now.  We want no part of it because of our Western swing experiences in the old Big West.  It's the non-revenue sports that kill programs that have to travel.  Better to stay in the Sun Belt than to try for a WAC patch on your jersey.

Hope this hasn't been posted already, but this will get your football juices flowing. [url=[Hidden Content] Chesney - The Boys of Fall[/url]

I drove by Lamar's stadium this morning and a lot of activity going on.  In fact, the scoreboard frame is up. Very nice looking stadium.  Well done.