Dick Vitale

OK so I ask you..WHY hasn't it happened at Hardin Jefferson? Why did it happen over the last 2-3 years at Ozen? It was almost INSTANT..WHY has Westbrook been in the cellar for the last 10 years? Why has Nederland improved SO much in the last 3-4 years? There is a common denominator to all of these questions, nash.

Of course you realize that every situation is different.  I don't have any inside knowledge as to what is going on at Texas with their football program, but I can only conclude that maybe he is a better recruiter than head coach...As for Ozen Basketball, I understand where it has been, where its going, and what needs to take place to get it back on track...Making the playoffs is just not the bar that has been set for that program...Its not enough..ESPECIALLY in THAT district.. ::)..You think HJ would accept watching Hamshire Fannett winning their district in back to back seasons, coming in 3rd in district and losing to East Chambers and Kountze? I would dare to say not.. ;)

You got it! 8)

Absolutely! we can bet straight up...Its easier that way! ;)...Tell you what... I will meet you in Beaumont on Saturday either way...You call the place and time...

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174640" timestamp="1328741912"] I want you to tell me honestly, (if you can) that Ozen has the same calibre of talent that they had in the Perkins years and the only difficulty is the man at the helm.  At the same time, explain to me why Mack Brown is not achieving what he used to achieve. [/quote] Not even CLOSE to the 2001 or 2002 teams but VERY similar to the 2007 team that won the district (going unbeaten) and went to the state championship game.

[quote name="diaperdandy19" post="1174859" timestamp="1328796091"] I still got Nederland and maybe Ozen running this district. HJ and silsbee making the playoffs but rounding out 3rd and 4th place. [/quote] I would bet my left knuckle that you have not seen either of these teams play this season. ;)  Besides in head to head competition against those 3A squads this year, district 20-4A in winless... ::)...That is CRAZY! :o

No you told me to take my emotions out of it and I did...I will bet you a $20 on the game, just because its STILL NEDERLAND...at the end of the day.  ;)...How bout it?

;D

What about the players, Bullets? I mean are you in agreement with them standing in a line and placing their right hands on each others shoulders? THAT is who the PNG guy that started this nonsense was talking about...the players on the floor.

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174817" timestamp="1328792981"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=95701.msg1174805#msg1174805 date=1328790566] It wasn't even a blasted dunk.  He didn't touch the rim.  he threw it down, therefore, it's NOT 'Billboard' worthy. [/quote] Soulja- Since Perkins was defending between Griffin and the basket, shouldnt Griffin have abandoned the dunk in favor of the SMRJ? [/quote] Probably so, but SportsCenter would have put the SMRJ on the NOT Top 10!! Go figure!! :D

But WOS didn't win one.... ::) ::)...OK, OK...I think Ozen will get them in a close one..It will be an emotional win for them I think...I have no idea WHAT happened in Livingston, but I doubt it will happen again at home.  Nederland is a good team, but I think this group has seen its best days..meaning I think they peaked around the middle of the district race..Think about how the second half has gone for them..PNG by 4? LCM in a close one? and the Central loss...I just think that they are ripe for the picking right now. 8)

[quote name="#1 Manager" post="1174770" timestamp="1328762257"] Who is this "Dick" guy?  He seems like another HJ fan that thinks he is a basketball "Guru".  Here is my question since there are so many HJ fans that run this site.  Who is the best basketball guru of yalls kind on this site?      I'm having hard time picking which one I should be taking notes from!!!  ;D [/quote] Son, I have FORGOTTEN more basketball than you have knowledge of currently!  8) 8) You 'll get that one sometime during second period today!!  ;D Now...Get to class!!! and take notes from me when you can get back on the site about this hoops stuff!! ;) Sincerely, THE "Guru"  8)

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174801" timestamp="1328787359"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95694.msg1174759#msg1174759 date=1328760782] At the end of the day, its STILL NEDERLAND.... ::)...Not Yates, not Wheatley, Not Madison, Not Lincoln, Not FW Dunbar.....its......Nederland....Ozen by 10... ;) [/quote] Does that mean the Celtics will beat the Heat because at the end of the day its still MIAMI?  IF you are drawing the line Dickie at Ozen minus ten, I will take Nederland and put up $2 for every $1 you choose to put up. [/quote] Miami has WON a title and has been in the finals... ::) ::)...bad choice of an NBA example there, my friend.. ;)...Now, about this betting thing...Are you taking the LINE of 10? See, the 10 came straight from my emotional side... :D...My basketball sense leads me to believe that it will be much less! 8)

At the end of the day, its STILL NEDERLAND.... ::)...Not Yates, not Wheatley, Not Madison, Not Lincoln, Not FW Dunbar.....its......Nederland....Ozen by 10... ;)

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174598" timestamp="1328737557"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174552#msg1174552 date=1328733229] [quote author=stevenash link=topic=95625.msg1174545#msg1174545 date=1328732987] My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them) [/quote] OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall. [/quote] And you and I simply differ on that.  You believe that most of it is attributable to coaching.  If you believe that, then you are simply telling me that HJ would have won the district football title this year if they had Art Briles as their coach.  I strongly disagree.  If Todd Sutherland resigns tomorrow, the program will continue to be successful.  But if they have a year or two where there isn't as much talent, one would look a little foollish to say if Todd was there the results would be so much better.  You just happen to be more enamored with a single individual and give him more credit than I would be inclined to do. [/quote] That football example is not the same...If Art Briles had built that HJ program, I would say yes, but since he did not, I cannot go with that comparison. And secondly if Todd resigns and Clay takes over, then yes you are right, it won't miss a beat. However if he resigns and Joe Sausagehead takes over, then you may have some issues with your program very similar to what Ozen is going through right now.

[quote name="stevenash" post="1174545" timestamp="1328732987"] My point wasnt comparing these two games but rather the Ozen of today vs the Ozen of yesteryear, the time when Dickie V keeps referring to.  Sort of like the Texas Longhorns.  They simply arent what they used to be and its not the fault of the coach.(Ozen and TExas have the same expectations but arent achieving them) [/quote] OK, so you are saying that Hardin Jefferson just keeps growing talent in Sour Lake? They have not fallen off of the map, so why does that have to be the case for Ozen? "Yesteryear" was not THAT long ago... ::)...I am telling you, there is a REASON for the downfall.

[quote name="Pumper" post="1174492" timestamp="1328727669"] There is definitely some talent coming up through the ranks in BISD.  If you put all of the talent in the 8th/9th grade classes together (which you could do with the BISD transfer rules; not saying it's right, but you could), you could have a state contender.  But if you are a parent of one of those kids sitting here today and looking at your options, where do you send them in the district? I won't answer that, but it's a good question... [/quote] Exactly..This is how you get kids like Devante Johnson mysteriously ending up in Hardin Jefferson from Central due to lack of options in BISD...It just should not happen...They (BISD athletics) need to make a move and fast.  There is no reason for the boys basketball programs to have such tradition and talent just turned into mediocrity. They know what needs to be done.

Very important...what we all must remember is that these are STUDENT athletes, so therefore, teaching needs to take place on the playing fields as well as in the classroom...Constant teaching moments....Life lessons...not just x's and o's.

[quote name="NB-Dawg" post="1174397" timestamp="1328721792"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95625.msg1174371#msg1174371 date=1328720075] I understand the parallel, but its not the same....If Orangefield starts DOMINATING 22-3A, winning 29 district games in a row, then you will be able to understand what I am saying...It just should not happen like that, when the kids are still there as they always have been. Not that Nederland should not be COMPETITIVE, but the way they have owned 20-4A over the [b]last two years[/b] is just not acceptable. [/quote] Just a little clarification: WHEN Nederland wins Friday night and next Tuesday, it will be 3 years. ;) [/quote] AND they talk smack to boot!!  8) ;D ;D....This just can't happen!!  >:(

[quote name="speechless" post="1174390" timestamp="1328721199"] [quote]Playoffs? Playoffs? They just need to try to win another district game! (in my Dick Vermeil voice) LOL[/quote] If it was Dick Vermeil then you are crying....you mean Jim Mora [/quote] THATS the guy!! ;D ;D...Jim Mora! Thanks!

[quote name="LumRaiderFan" post="1174377" timestamp="1328720446"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=95659.msg1174328#msg1174328 date=1328716256] [quote author=LumRaiderFan link=topic=95659.msg1174319#msg1174319 date=1328715895] [quote author=Puma link=topic=95659.msg1174303#msg1174303 date=1328715219] I just found this by googling National Anthem etiquette.  I never really thought about there being any sort of prescibed rules regarding etiqutte during the palying or singing of the National Anthem prior to reading this thread although I am not suprised to find that there are.  I guess standing, removing my cap and placing my hand over my heart is just what I saw others do when I was young and now feel it is what is neccessary to show proper respect to my country.  Below is the information I found: In 2007, Congress addressed this for the first time in 36 USC 301. This U.S. Code therefore created the first mandated national anthem etiquette. [b]The pledge of allegiance should be rendered by standing at attention, facing the flag, and placing the right hand over the heart (the salute).[/b] Uniformed personnel, firefighters, law enforcement officers, and military personnel in uniform should render a hand salute. When the national anthem is played or sung, U.S. citizens should stand straight and rigid and salute at the first note and hold the salute through the last note. The salute is directed to the flag, if displayed, otherwise to the singer. [/quote] [b]Not sure why anyone would have a problem with this but it's a free country![/b] [/quote] This is what I thought too....Its not like the kids were wearing black gloves and holding a fist in the air in protest! GOODNESS! ::) [/quote] I think you misunderstood me...I don't see why anyone would have a problem standing at attention and putting you hand over your heart.  To me it shows respect for the greatest country on the planet that we live in and respect for those that have served to preserve the freedoms we enjoy. [/quote] I was in agreement with you on your statement. 8)

Well if you are happy with "making the playoffs" then you must be a Westbrook fan or alum...EXCELLENCE is what was established in the Pear Orchard when it came to hoops. Just not happening these days on the guys side...Sidenote: If you can't beat Nederland, Livingston and Central REGULARLY, winning a state title is not in the cards for you.......at all... ::)

Thats all well and good, but HOW IN THE WORLD do you relate MLK Day with the National Anthem, unless...well you know where I am going... ::) ::)...Those kids at Ozen did nothing different from what any other team does during the anthem.

I understand the parallel, but its not the same....If Orangefield starts DOMINATING 22-3A, winning 29 district games in a row, then you will be able to understand what I am saying...It just should not happen like that, when the kids are still there as they always have been. Not that Nederland should not be COMPETITIVE, but the way they have owned 20-4A over the last two years is just not acceptable.

[quote name="uandme08" post="1174330" timestamp="1328716362"] [quote author=rc2182 link=topic=95625.msg1174306#msg1174306 date=1328715292] I would think everyone would do a little research b4 we get to discussing coaches credentials,not sure about one coach but the one at Ozen happen to play high school basketball ,but even at that ,there are a lot of things you have to take into consideration does he have parent,community, BISD(PRINCIPAL,AD, SUPERINT, PLAYERS ETC....) and last but not least how many shots did he miss (the coach),reb. did he get ,Players Play Coaches Coach. [/quote] Yes there are alot of things to take into consideration but there are some things you have no control over. Honestly I don't know why the parents are not there, I have always felt that for every child participating there should be at least 1 person from the family showing support. The community is full of bandwagon fans, nobody really showed up for the football games but when they got a decent win 10 more people showed up. It's sad to look in the gym at a home game and see maybe 50 people. I understand the coach doesn't miss the shots or gets out rebounded or turns the ball over but he makes the decision as to who will be on the court. When you see a kid make a mistake, you don't bench him and not tell him what he did wrong or show him an alternative. When you have back to back turnovers, you don't call a timeout and not say nothing in the huddle. When you go down by 7 and you see some of your team getting discouraged, you don't just sit down and not say a word. There was nothing coming from Ozen's sideline last night. If it wasn't for 4 of the 12 fans that showed up, nothing would have been heard. No motivation at all and the lead was maybe 7 (if that) at the beginning of the 4th quarter. I'm no coach and never want that responsibility but I've been around long enough to know a thing or 2 IMO. Something is lacking with Ozen's basketball program and I won't put all of the blame on the coaching staff. I'm frustrated and don't want another headache from last night.... [/quote] I know EXACTLY what it is. And I hate to say that I SAW it coming back in December of 2008. It has happened...NEDERLAND IS WINNING DISTRICT THESE DAYS! No one sees anything wrong with that? As good as Coach English is as a coach, they still SHOULD NOT DOMINATE THAT DISTRICT the way that they have...PERIOD. Just think about this...If Central starting dominanting in BASEBALL, wouldn't some schools in that district find that odd?