Dick Vitale

He said over the last 35 years...That would be since 1978... ::)....Beaumont has had MORE talent in that span...Period.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1384593" timestamp="1363011570"] Since Im a Silsbee native I will break it down. Silsbee may have had the best talent overall in SETX over the last 35 years next to PA Lincoln. Silsbee has never been able to get over the hump to win state. I have seen Silsbee teams that have had 3 Allstate players at one time come up short. If these two have the talent to make their teammates better amd keep those grades up, who knows. I wish them the best of luck and ill be sure to catch a game or two. If they can win state is a very tough question to answer since I have nothing to compare to yet. [/quote] SECOND behind PA Lincoln??? NO sir, they are not...You ever hear of a Beaumont ISD school called Hebert? The one that actually won a state title or two? They had more talent than Silsbee...So has Central over that time span and Westbrook too...Talent is Silsbee? Absolutely, yes...MORE than the BISD schools...NO WAY.

OK, so how is it fair to assume that Coach "A" in your example is trying to gain some competitive advantage by coaching AAU in the summer? Yet it is OK for some communities to POSSIBLY persuade kids from other communities to become a part of the local program from the elementary years? Is that not gaining an "unfair" advantage over the communities that do not have that luxury?

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1386404" timestamp="1363636447"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110076.msg1386397#msg1386397 date=1363635891] One program happens to be a tad bit more "urban" than the other....Less "republican", if you will..... ::) ::) ::) [/quote] Dickie- Only you wants to insert racism into the conversation.  The discussion is how the players are acquired/developed regardless of political persuasion or skin color.  Sorry, but there simply is no comparison and your "pedigree, royalty, and whatever else you wish to claim" has NO BEARING whatsoever on this. [/quote] Actually thats not it either...What Dove is talking about is you being OK with one teams method of "acquisition" as you call it, and not ok with the other.  Are you saying there are NO republicans that are black? (i.e. Conde Rice, Colin Powell, etc) or are you saying there are no whites living in the urban areas of the US? Looks like I didn't insert race into this, but YOU did... ;)

I would say its similar to the "little dribblers" [s]recruiting[/s] errr, I mean basketball program.... ::) ::)

One program happens to be a tad bit more "urban" than the other....Less "republican", if you will..... ::) ::) ::)

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1386170" timestamp="1363533390"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110076.msg1386167#msg1386167 date=1363530527] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1385841#msg1385841 date=1363377554] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385837#msg1385837 date=1363376898] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385810#msg1385810 date=1363371899] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385771#msg1385771 date=1363365943] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385733#msg1385733 date=1363355705] [quote author=pallacanestro link=topic=110076.msg1385701#msg1385701 date=1363319120] Bluedove, how do you know so much about AAA, mclure, and the director from notre dame? Would it happen to be from experiences you had with them at AAU? Corruption in HS basketball is due to AAU and parents who want to shop their children around. I remember a certain guard from the Houston area that later played at Arizona...how many high schools did he attend before settling down? [/quote] How do I know them? Various avenues other than the AAU circuit  ;) Do you really want to debate HS vs AAU with me? Do you really want to[color=red] compare[/color] the behind scenes in HS and AAU with me? You may not want to do that, trust me!! [/quote] WOW, right out of DickieV's tactics manual - right down to the plea, "trust me." ::) [/quote]It should be. The same man that taught me, taught Dickie too!! [/quote] [b]It's a shame that neither you nor DickieV picked up the pure "Class" that your mentor had. :([/b][/quote] Ouch!! [/quote] FIRST of all, how in the HECK did I get put in this negative connotation and SECOND do you have any CLUE who the mentor that you speak of is? Just want clarity before before I dig in your hindside.... >:( [/quote] I think self proclaimed "basketball royalty" may have something to do with the connotation. [/quote] That had NOTHING to do with what the discussion was about... ::)...Besdies< I was in AGREEMENT with what was said about Triple A Academy aside from the fact that the classless act of booing those kids occured...I AGREE that they had no business in Class A UIL...But once again.. ::) ::)

You CAN'T answer THAT question, yet you are sure that all of those kids are "homegrown"? Sounds shady to me... ::)

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1386077" timestamp="1363452413"] [quote author=Aces_Full link=topic=110281.msg1386042#msg1386042 date=1363445712] Joel LaFluer from PNG score 50 on Nederland in 1992.  Believe he was MVP of the District that year that included Lincoln and Silsbee. [/quote] DV isnt going to like this.  I am sure there is an explanation why LaFleur got MVP in a district that included Lincoln [/quote] Why would I care about THAT random stat about Lafleur? Congrats to PNG...They have ONE MVP in 100 years...gold star for them...How many MVP's has Lincoln had history buffs? I would venture to say about 99 more than PNG!  8) and being that they are closed, PNG will STILL never catch them in in that or any statistic...and Lincoln is closed.. ::)

[quote name="mytwocents" post="1385841" timestamp="1363377554"] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385837#msg1385837 date=1363376898] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385810#msg1385810 date=1363371899] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385771#msg1385771 date=1363365943] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385733#msg1385733 date=1363355705] [quote author=pallacanestro link=topic=110076.msg1385701#msg1385701 date=1363319120] Bluedove, how do you know so much about AAA, mclure, and the director from notre dame? Would it happen to be from experiences you had with them at AAU? Corruption in HS basketball is due to AAU and parents who want to shop their children around. I remember a certain guard from the Houston area that later played at Arizona...how many high schools did he attend before settling down? [/quote] How do I know them? Various avenues other than the AAU circuit  ;) Do you really want to debate HS vs AAU with me? Do you really want to[color=red] compare[/color] the behind scenes in HS and AAU with me? You may not want to do that, trust me!! [/quote] WOW, right out of DickieV's tactics manual - right down to the plea, "trust me." ::) [/quote]It should be. The same man that taught me, taught Dickie too!! [/quote] [b]It's a shame that neither you nor DickieV picked up the pure "Class" that your mentor had. :([/b][/quote] Ouch!! [/quote] FIRST of all, how in the HECK did I get put in this negative connotation and SECOND do you have any CLUE who the mentor that you speak of is? Just want clarity before before I dig in your hindside.... >:(

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1386159" timestamp="1363527505"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110159.msg1386139#msg1386139 date=1363493416] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110159.msg1385764#msg1385764 date=1363364745] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110159.msg1385762#msg1385762 date=1363364068] [quote author=CRUSHCOACH link=topic=110159.msg1385719#msg1385719 date=1363350281] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110159.msg1384987#msg1384987 date=1363131970] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=110159.msg1384971#msg1384971 date=1363130312] For schools like Lincoln, Silsbee, Kountze, and Hebert you could form 4 different starting 5 and still be close to right. Lots of talent in the school sysystems. Who was that exchange student back in the day for PNG that.shot 3's like layupz? [/quote]Y [/quote]PNG had an exchange student?  Hmmmmm!!! [/quote] Yes, a very appropriate comparison to Yates and Triple A.  Good inference, Dove [/quote]And lets not forget 1A Mumford High  ;) [/quote] Yes, the school who had 8 of their first nine players developed in their system since grade school. [/quote] So was the ONE move in a difference maker? ::) 8)

Vidor has beaten Ozen THREE TIMES IN THE HISTORY OF BOTH SCHOOLS....THREE! They all happened in 2004, and Ozen STILL WON the district outright, and advanced farther than Vidor did, which was to the regional round losing to eventual state champion Houston Jones...FACT...So what is the point of bringing up the wins against a program that has dominated them FOREVER? Congrats, you beat Ozen 3 out of 300...Gold star.... ::) ::)

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1385043" timestamp="1363136711"] [quote author=catfever link=topic=110076.msg1385036#msg1385036 date=1363136365] Here is the thing that amazed me. The enrollment of Madison was smaller than 95% of all 3A schools. It would not surprise me if they could be 2A by enrollment standards. Amazing that all that size and ability go to a school with 460 kids [/quote] No, it's not amazing.  It's obvious. [/quote] But its OK for that ability to land at tiny Hardin Jefferson, right? When they were winning it was perfectly OK. Maybe the UIL should resort to pre-70's UIL....That would be more to your liking, huh Nash?  ::) Furthermore, I think it was tasteless for those idiots in the stands to boo some high school kids. After all it wasn't THEIR fault the UIL placed them in class A.....I will be willing to bet my right arm if those kids from Triple A Academy were less "urban", they would not have been booed.  ;)

[quote name="mytwocents" post="1385368" timestamp="1363209921"] [quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=110159.msg1385366#msg1385366 date=1363209786] I dont think anyone associated with Ozen in any capacity is gonna like that Vidor list LOL. Several on that list beat Ozen 3 times right?  :o [/quote] Yes. Three times in one year.  8) Trey Jenkins Noah cole George Williamson Jake Mcwilliams Cody Reese I think thats it lol. [/quote] Oh yeah...3-9 all time versus Ozen for these guys.....Not bad.... ::) ::)..gimme a break... ::)

[quote name="Aces_Full" post="1384889" timestamp="1363110031"] Where is Nederland, PNG, HJ, BC starting 5?    [/quote] HJ I can see, but I don't think you could come up with a starting 5 with those other schools COMBINED.... ::) ::) 8).....Seriously...before English arrived, did Nederland have ANY players that were worth remembering? Seriously....

[quote name="Aces_Full" post="1384881" timestamp="1363109509"] Kelvin McKyer was the best player on that state championship team.  [/quote] Yes he was....My point was that Xavier Hinton was to POST on that team that BADSANTA was asking about.

I think cougar 14 is a blind black guy that was told he was white all of his life.. ;D..CLAYTON BIGSBY!! WHITE POWER! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D...Just thought I would break the serious racial tones of this thread with a good laugh!  8)

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1384873" timestamp="1363108281"] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=110159.msg1384864#msg1384864 date=1363107054] PA Lincoln BJ Tyler Earl Evans Stephen Jackson Leonard Allen Keith Harris The post from the 90/91 team [/quote]That would be Kelvin McKyer. Anthony Allen was another great post player from 86-88? [/quote] The POST on the 90-91 team was XAVIER HINTON....Kelvin McKyer was the WING.... ::) ::)

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1384864" timestamp="1363107054"] PA Lincoln BJ Tyler Earl Evans Stephen Jackson Leonard Allen Keith Harris The post from the 90/91 team [/quote] That post would be Xavier Hinton... ;)....My Lincoln list would be: BJ Tyler Kelvin McKyer Immanuel McIlroy Stephen Jackson Earl Evans

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1384855" timestamp="1363106237"] Didnt he hoop for Kountze? [/quote] No, he played at Hebert.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1384851" timestamp="1363105979"] Kountze Tremaine Hancock Ashton Iba McDaniel Josh Hancock Keithan Hancock Bench Devin Bray [b]Andre Boutte[/b] Waylon Lowe [/quote] ????

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1384779" timestamp="1363064552"] Ozen Brandon Chappell (sp) Kris Richards Kenna Young Kendrick Perkins David Green III [/quote] WHAT?? DAVID GREEN III?  :o :o  Him over Mike Thomas? Albert Marshall? Decarlos Frank?  Ohhhh, I get it, David Green USED to coach at Central and you are just such a die hard fan, that....I get it... ::) ::) ;D

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1384454" timestamp="1362946434"] [quote author=Savant19 link=topic=110063.msg1384444#msg1384444 date=1362945134] Coach Wise has always been that way. If the press has gotten us this far apparently it worked , why change now? If you get beat you're not running the defense the way i taught you....so we'll keep at it until you get it right. I have this same argument with his 2001-02 & 2002-03  Hightower team kids that live in my area that lost as they put it ...because coach wouldnt come out of the press. We've practiced this every day and now you cant do it right ? No son, get it right or lose. Same with time outs...aint gonna happen.  If you cant execute there are no bail-outs turn it over... and try again. And the players no better than to call one except in the game vs HJ    Guard called one on an inbound play and got cursed out "Dont call no damn timeout ! Cant get the damn ball in give it back to the ref ! " * Also for those that were at the Wylie game vs Madison  ... down 40 points .... yep we're staying in this 2-3 zone son...now get out there and win. [/quote]Shouldn't it be the coaches job to think of alternative methods to win the game if your signature method isn't working? Sorry, but that's not good coaching. Seems like that is nothing more than 'out athleting' the other team. While it works against 95% of opponents, it makes no sense to be stubborn and not adjust your game plan when it's not working and you are losing the state title again in the same manner as you did the year before. Since that is all that Yates cares about, this should be a huge issue for them.  [/quote] Hey Abe, everyone has a different way of thinking in the coaching profession...Legendary Houston Wheatley coach Jackie Carr believed that a bad shot trumps a good pass any day of the week...While most would find that quite odd, HE was very successful in that line of thinking...Greg Wise has 2 state titles and 6 state apearances in two different schools...His method works for HIM...Some guys have all the answers and no titles...and no appearances..which would YOU rather have? ;)

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1384428" timestamp="1362942627"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110063.msg1384424#msg1384424 date=1362942008] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110063.msg1384420#msg1384420 date=1362941313] [quote author=Skip Bayless link=topic=110063.msg1384398#msg1384398 date=1362935391] No team from this area beat Yates. So why are y'all trying to see which game would be closer? Yates doesn't care about how much they win by as long as they win. [/quote]Not trying to determine which game would closer. I made a point that people (DV in this case) assume the outcome of a game before it is played due to simply 'athleticism'. Had Silsbee not shot so poorly at the FT line, they could have won the game against Yates, correct? To say that Nederland doesn't have the athletes (on another thread) to compete with Yates, but good enough athletes to beat Silsbee is a contradiction, no? DV was unable to provide any facts as to why Yates would automatically win. His opinion is: Nederland doesn't have the athletes to compete against them and Yates has 8 'athletes'. Only 5 play at a time though correct? ??? Hmmm?? I've received no answer about this before, but I will ask again: Since when does an athletic team equate to an automatic victory over a 'non-athletic' team?? Last I checked, NEVER! It looks good during warmups, but when the whistle blows and the ball is tipped, it's anyone's game, and Nederland has proven (I know some don't like facts) that over and again. 8) [/quote] I DO agree with you, to an extent...If your team is more athletic and you have at least a DECENT coach on the sideline, odds are, the team with athletes will win...Thats a fact...Now, does it ALWAYS happen? No, but at the high school level, more often than not. [/quote]I agree, it is hard to argue that (in most cases) at the HS level. Ok, I'm done, that's two things we have agreed on today. We must stop now before our reputations are ruined! ;D ;D Got a question for you DV: While I realize Yates's MO is to press in order to score, why did coach Wise continue to press yesterday when Madison destroyed their press time and again? Why not make an in-game adjustment and try something different? Same thing happened last year in the title game too. I'm not picking on him, I just don't understand his thinking! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Why not try something different and play a half court defense and protect the rim a bit more? [/quote] I wasn't able to catch the game, but knowing the mindset, he just stuck to his belief in his system. Its the same when he is asked about why he presses when he is up 60...Thats just what they do! Live by the press, DIE by the press! ;D...Thats not MY philosphy by any means, but I guess you have to give him credit for sticking to his guns, no matter what... 8)

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1384426" timestamp="1362942167"] Be honest Dickie when I ask you this because I already know the answer.  If you had watched Nederland warming up when they visited Silsbee, who would you have chosen? [/quote] If I knew nothing about the teams or coaches? Silsbee. What does that have to do with the Yates/Nederland question? I know that Yates has better athletes, more of them, and a good coach, that runs a pressure defense system.  Nederland does not have enough bodies to play with a team like Yates. Even if the stick in the beginning, they will be worn down by games end. Pretty simple.