sleepy

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="775141" timestamp="1268322824"] Its blogging... It's here for opinions, objectiveness, wishful thinking, debating, and conversation... The ignorant thing is you on here acting like mere conversation and debating is ignorant! [/quote] Well said short.

[quote name="LemonGello" post="775138" timestamp="1268322552"] The point is to build a program.  Coach Roc had a very successful season two seasons that ended on a crushing note in the tournament.  The last two seasons have been injury plagued, and it would have been difficult for anybody to win. This is, at best, a mid-level program.  It takes more than three or four seasons to build a consistent program on this level.  If Roc is sent packing, how many seasons do you give his replacement?  If he has a similar record after three or four seasons under similar circumstances, should he be canned?  Does the school just continue a revolving door every four years if just minimal success is achieved?  My point: you can't build a program with that kind of mentality. [/quote] I don't disagree with your post as far as giving a coach time.  I just don't think Roc is the guy. Just my opinion though.

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="775132" timestamp="1268321959"] [quote author=westendfirst link=topic=67193.msg775123#msg775123 date=1268321356] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67193.msg774797#msg774797 date=1268265416] I will let the cat out of the bag.  It will take one of two things happening for us to have a new coach next year.  If Rod Strickland becomes the head coach at Depaul then Roc is gone to Kentucky.  If Tony Barbee becomes the head coach at Depaul Rod Strickland will likely become his top assistant.  Bottom line is Roc has realized had he stayed at Memphis with Cal he would be the head coach there now.  If Strickland leaves Kentucky that will open up an assistants job and Roc will take it.  If that indeed happens look for Alvin Brooks, and Rodney Terry(Current Texas assistant) to be in the running for the job.  By the way.....I love the Quinn Snyder suggestion. I think he would be a home run! [/quote] Are you kidding?? Quinn Snyder???  NO NO NO NO.  That guy was a disaster at Missouri.  Alvin Brooks?  Wasn't he a disaster at UH?  Never heard of Rodney Terry.  As for Snyder and Brooks, I would prefer NOT to hire someone that's already proven they can't coach.  Even though I love Brooks.  Man, what a point guard!!  I guarantee you he could still school anyone we have on campus.  I wonder if he has any eligibility left? [/quote] Rodney Terry is only one of the better assistance in the country.  He has been on the radar for a head job for about three years now and I think he is reaching for something higher than LU.... Snyder is a good X's and O's coach with a young style.  He is not big 12 material but would be really good in the Southland... [/quote] Terry is interested in Lamar and I know that for a fact.

[quote name="westendfirst" post="775123" timestamp="1268321356"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67193.msg774797#msg774797 date=1268265416] I will let the cat out of the bag.  It will take one of two things happening for us to have a new coach next year.  If Rod Strickland becomes the head coach at Depaul then Roc is gone to Kentucky.  If Tony Barbee becomes the head coach at Depaul Rod Strickland will likely become his top assistant.  Bottom line is Roc has realized had he stayed at Memphis with Cal he would be the head coach there now.  If Strickland leaves Kentucky that will open up an assistants job and Roc will take it.  If that indeed happens look for Alvin Brooks, and Rodney Terry(Current Texas assistant) to be in the running for the job.  By the way.....I love the Quinn Snyder suggestion. I think he would be a home run! [/quote] Are you kidding?? Quinn Snyder???  NO NO NO NO.  That guy was a disaster at Missouri.  Alvin Brooks?  Wasn't he a disaster at UH?  Never heard of Rodney Terry.  As for Snyder and Brooks, I would prefer NOT to hire someone that's already proven they can't coach.  Even though I love Brooks.  Man, what a point guard!!  I guarantee you he could still school anyone we have on campus.  I wonder if he has any eligibility left? [/quote] Snyder was a suggestion that I simply agree with.  He was hardly a disaster at Missouri.  126-91 in his time there include 4 straight NCAA appearances including an elite 8.  That is not a disaster.  He did do some things that were frowned upon but a second chance for a guy like this could work.  As for the other stuff with Brooks and Terry.......I am just telling you the things that I KNOW are going on.  That's it.  Not my ideas.

[quote name="westendfirst" post="775111" timestamp="1268320551"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67027.msg773691#msg773691 date=1268141179] It won't be a big name coach.  Just not happening. [/quote] Well that is about the dumbest commment I've heard.  No chit.  Dang, I thought we'd get Coach K to come here from Duke...or maybe Pitino is ready to leave Louisville?  Or maybe we could hire Calipari away from Kentucky?  Give me a break.  There are only about 3 - 5 coaching positions in the country that aren't stepping stones to get to a 'better' job.  Was Tubbs a big name when we hired him years ago?  Was Pat Foster?  heck, all the supposed big names we've hired have been big name assistants and they've pretty much sucked across the board.  So maybe that lend a little credence to hiring a good high school coach.  However, I personally would NEVER do that.  IF we were to make a change then you would look at head coaches at the college level at less attractive jobs than ours.  Do you honestly think LU has the least attractive college coaching position in the country?  Not hardly!!!  We've got a fantastic facility, decent fan support, and a community absolutely starving for something successful.  I truly would love to see Roc get the job done.  But, if he can't he can't. Question, why is Marlin at SHSU?  Why is Kaspar at SFA? What about Tim Floyd?  He wanted to come here at one time. I think we hired Gioweenie instead?  And the coach that was at Baylor and then New Mexico or New Mexico State?  I can't recall his name but he wanted to come here (of course he's probably 70 now).  Both of them have since been in trouble with the NCAA but who hasn't.  The only way you stay out of trouble with the NCAA is if you are the NCAA like North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Texas, etc.  Of course, now we've sucked so bad for so long we may have to hire an elementary PE coach. [/quote] Not sure why you are jumping me pal but I just answered someone telling them we were not getting a big name coach when they implied that we could.  I agree 100% on your post and a guy like that I believe we should go after is Quinn Snyder.

[quote name="LemonGello" post="775051" timestamp="1268313082"] Tubbs didn't win the three seasons he was here.  Roc inherited his team and had one of the most successful seasons in years.  Last two seasons have been injury plagued in case anyone has been paying attention.  If you are going to BUILD A PROGRAM, you must establish consistency.  The best way to do that is to find a committed coach to the school and stick with him.  This is not a stepping stone job for Roc as it would be for most other coaches who MIGHT come here.  Roc is committed for the long haul.  A guarantee: at the very least, the team will be in the conference tournament next season since they will be playing in the Eastern Division of the conference.   The keys for next season: good health, two good shooters, and two good rebounders. [/quote] Wow.........a guarantee to get to the conference tournament.  Now that is huge.   If he can do that let's keep him ::) Also, I hate to break it to you the three seasons you are talking bad about Tubbs were roccafortes recruiting classes not Tubbs.  And that is a fact!

[quote name="LemonGello" post="775060" timestamp="1268314121"] The ignorance of the comments on this subject are astounding.  I stopped reading them after the first seven.  Not one single person on this board knows diddly-pooh about evaluating basketball talent.  Justin Wesley?  He's a freshman, for cryin' out load!  Very unlikely you are going to have freshmen like the kids at UT or the mega-frosh at Kentucky playing here.  If he were that good, he wouldn't be at LU!  Give him time, understand? As for Tubbs, let's recall that he did not do a great deal of winning on his return.  Don't get me wrong, I love the guy.  Even he knows what Roc has dealt with the last two seasons, which is just one reason why Roc should and will stay.  The players are loyal and committed to who brought them to LU.  Remember that.  To say anything else is merely speculation. LU has not returned to glory simply because no consistency has been developed to actually build a program here.  That lack of consistency is due to the revolving door in the coaches' office at the Montagne Center for the last two decades! [/quote] Ignorance?  Yet you are the only one pleading for him to stay.  What makes your statement less ignorant than the rest?

I will let the cat out of the bag.  It will take one of two things happening for us to have a new coach next year.  If Rod Strickland becomes the head coach at Depaul then Roc is gone to Kentucky.  If Tony Barbee becomes the head coach at Depaul Rod Strickland will likely become his top assistant.  Bottom line is Roc has realized had he stayed at Memphis with Cal he would be the head coach there now.  If Strickland leaves Kentucky that will open up an assistants job and Roc will take it.  If that indeed happens look for Alvin Brooks, and Rodney Terry(Current Texas assistant) to be in the running for the job.  By the way.....I love the Quinn Snyder suggestion. I think he would be a home run!

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="774363" timestamp="1268225743"] Football will be bad because it is its first year... Basketball never left the school!  Football will be decent and better than some think in about 3 years... But basketball really doesn't have an excuse. [/quote] Exactly.  You cannot compare basketball to football right now.  Just not apples to apples.

Short you don't get what I am saying.  I would fully support a Boutte hire and would love to see him do well.  I just don't think he will.  By the way Todd Dodge's name was much more recognizable when he got a head coaching job that Andre Boutte's would be.  Sorry.

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="773851" timestamp="1268156241"] The Lamar PA coach was decent... I give him kudos on the job he accomplished.  Truth be told his division was a little down this year, but one year and 20's old makes him more qualified than Boutte?  Young college coaches are mostly in their 40's... I am not saying it will be Boutte I am just saying your argument that he is not the answer has really big holes!!  It is time for new blood... Let us see where it comes from! [/quote] My argument that has holes as well as yours.  In fact your holes are much larger.  Sorry hiring a former high school coach at the college level is ALWAYS a leep of faith.  PERIOD!

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="773732" timestamp="1268146412"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773718#msg773718 date=1268145035] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=66956.msg773712#msg773712 date=1268144687] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773705#msg773705 date=1268143517] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=66956.msg773703#msg773703 date=1268143379] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773696#msg773696 date=1268141516] [quote author=shorttexas1 link=topic=66956.msg773586#msg773586 date=1268106721] Neither could Roc with all those credentials... They don't mean a thing when you hand over the reigns...  Plenty of big names and noteriety have failed and failed big... Frank Martin's name did not get those players!!! Even at Baylor, it took guys with some other background...  Maybe the trick is not to shoot so high for a canidate that will not come!  They have done that and failed.  Players from this and the Houston area would play for Boutte before going to Tennessee Tech, La Tech, BYU, or Tulane.... Period!   We have sent some of our best players to these schools...  Even the Hancock, Skip Jackson, and Edward Garret went to Southland schools... They coould have been great together at Lamar! [/quote] Garriet and Hancock could have been decent Lamar players but Jackson not so much.  I just simply disagree that he could keep players from going to BYU, La Tech, and Tulane. The exposure they get is just on a different level than that of Lamar.  I just don't see that happening. Tennessee Tech.......well yes he could keep them from going there. I agree that we should not shoot so high when trying to get a head coach.  I simply don't think Boutte would be the answer.  With that said if they gave him a chance I would fully support him and it would be fun to watch.  In my opinion I don't think it is the right thing to do. Bottom line is there are already people interested in the job that would be great here.  Young guys with Texas ties. [/quote]Boutee is young and has Texas ties [/quote] Your idea of young and mine are different.  [/quote]hMMM? When did the definition of "young" change? Please explain! [/quote] Young is a relative term.  Do you understand what relative means? The guy I am speaking of is in his 20's and the guy you are speaking of is in his 40's or 50's.  Big difference.  Get the drift.  And oh by the way here is the definition of a young man! Noun 1. young man - a teenager or a young adult male      [/quote]So wait a minute. Let me get this staright. You're saying LU should have a young man or teenager as a coach??? [/quote] A young man who is in his 20's will be in the running IF the job comes open.  It is not Matt Cross.  He currently at a University in the state as an assistant.  You understand what I mean dove.  I think a young energetic guy would be better than a 50 something.  JMHO!

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="773712" timestamp="1268144687"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773705#msg773705 date=1268143517] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=66956.msg773703#msg773703 date=1268143379] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773696#msg773696 date=1268141516] [quote author=shorttexas1 link=topic=66956.msg773586#msg773586 date=1268106721] Neither could Roc with all those credentials... They don't mean a thing when you hand over the reigns...  Plenty of big names and noteriety have failed and failed big... Frank Martin's name did not get those players!!! Even at Baylor, it took guys with some other background...  Maybe the trick is not to shoot so high for a canidate that will not come!  They have done that and failed.  Players from this and the Houston area would play for Boutte before going to Tennessee Tech, La Tech, BYU, or Tulane.... Period!   We have sent some of our best players to these schools...  Even the Hancock, Skip Jackson, and Edward Garret went to Southland schools... They coould have been great together at Lamar! [/quote] Garriet and Hancock could have been decent Lamar players but Jackson not so much.  I just simply disagree that he could keep players from going to BYU, La Tech, and Tulane. The exposure they get is just on a different level than that of Lamar.  I just don't see that happening. Tennessee Tech.......well yes he could keep them from going there. I agree that we should not shoot so high when trying to get a head coach.  I simply don't think Boutte would be the answer.  With that said if they gave him a chance I would fully support him and it would be fun to watch.  In my opinion I don't think it is the right thing to do. Bottom line is there are already people interested in the job that would be great here.  Young guys with Texas ties. [/quote]Boutee is young and has Texas ties [/quote] Your idea of young and mine are different.  [/quote]hMMM? When did the definition of "young" change? Please explain! [/quote] Young is a relative term.  Do you understand what relative means? The guy I am speaking of is in his 20's and the guy you are speaking of is in his 40's or 50's.  Big difference.  Get the drift.  And oh by the way here is the definition of a young man! Noun 1. young man - a teenager or a young adult male   

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="773703" timestamp="1268143379"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=66956.msg773696#msg773696 date=1268141516] [quote author=shorttexas1 link=topic=66956.msg773586#msg773586 date=1268106721] Neither could Roc with all those credentials... They don't mean a thing when you hand over the reigns...  Plenty of big names and noteriety have failed and failed big... Frank Martin's name did not get those players!!! Even at Baylor, it took guys with some other background...  Maybe the trick is not to shoot so high for a canidate that will not come!  They have done that and failed.  Players from this and the Houston area would play for Boutte before going to Tennessee Tech, La Tech, BYU, or Tulane.... Period!   We have sent some of our best players to these schools...  Even the Hancock, Skip Jackson, and Edward Garret went to Southland schools... They coould have been great together at Lamar! [/quote] Garriet and Hancock could have been decent Lamar players but Jackson not so much.  I just simply disagree that he could keep players from going to BYU, La Tech, and Tulane. The exposure they get is just on a different level than that of Lamar.  I just don't see that happening. Tennessee Tech.......well yes he could keep them from going there. I agree that we should not shoot so high when trying to get a head coach.  I simply don't think Boutte would be the answer.  With that said if they gave him a chance I would fully support him and it would be fun to watch.  In my opinion I don't think it is the right thing to do. Bottom line is there are already people interested in the job that would be great here.  Young guys with Texas ties. [/quote]Boutee is young and has Texas ties [/quote] Your idea of young and mine are different. 

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="773586" timestamp="1268106721"] Neither could Roc with all those credentials... They don't mean a thing when you hand over the reigns...  Plenty of big names and noteriety have failed and failed big... Frank Martin's name did not get those players!!! Even at Baylor, it took guys with some other background...  Maybe the trick is not to shoot so high for a canidate that will not come!  They have done that and failed.  Players from this and the Houston area would play for Boutte before going to Tennessee Tech, La Tech, BYU, or Tulane.... Period!   We have sent some of our best players to these schools...  Even the Hancock, Skip Jackson, and Edward Garret went to Southland schools... They coould have been great together at Lamar! [/quote] Garriet and Hancock could have been decent Lamar players but Jackson not so much.  I just simply disagree that he could keep players from going to BYU, La Tech, and Tulane. The exposure they get is just on a different level than that of Lamar.  I just don't see that happening. Tennessee Tech.......well yes he could keep them from going there. I agree that we should not shoot so high when trying to get a head coach.  I simply don't think Boutte would be the answer.  With that said if they gave him a chance I would fully support him and it would be fun to watch.  In my opinion I don't think it is the right thing to do. Bottom line is there are already people interested in the job that would be great here.  Young guys with Texas ties.

It won't be a big name coach.  Just not happening.

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="773427" timestamp="1268084310"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=67027.msg773413#msg773413 date=1268082991] Wasn't Boutte's name thrown around once b4? [/quote] Yes but these guys didn't know that... He also was almost a Tubbs assistant!!!  A decorated High School coach can be a good hire!  It will not be an embarrassment.  Plenty of schools have done it... It would be no worse than hiring a dercorated college assistant that totally blew the job!!! [/quote] Trust me I knew that and that is fine as an assistant. But it simply isn't the answer.  Two different levels.  Because your good or in fact great in his case at the high school level doesn't mean that you are gonna be good or great at the college level.  Also, the fact of the matter is he would not have been able to keep the likes of keena young and others here.  Maybe some but not the ones that we all dream about.  When the BYU's and Texas' of the world come calling anyone short of Mike Kryzeweski will not keep them here.

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="773431" timestamp="1268084772"] You don't need a big budget to go after the right people...  Ask McNeese, SFA, and Sam Houston...  They have all done it right here in the Southland.  Where Lamar has been the epitome of mediocrity! [/quote] Come on guys.  Let's try and get it for a second.  Bob Marlin was not a high school coach.  Lamar had a chance to hire him but NO ONE knew he would be succesful until he got hired as a head coach and he was an assistant before.  Don't get me wrong I love Andre Boutte but he is not the answer at Lamar.  He has ZERO track record at the college level.  Lamar does not have the money to hire the "RIGHT GUY" nor does the  "RIGHT GUY" want to come to lamar as an assistant.  You can do that at Kansas State and other big schools because that will lead to being a head coach at a BIG school but it won't at Lamar.  Bottom line is the head coach has to be the recruiter, coach, and everything else when you are coaching at the southland.  This job is for an up and coming coach and not a place for GREAT assistants and Andre Boutte cannot lure the GREAT assistants.  It is just not happening fellas.

[quote name="mffl" post="773380" timestamp="1268079850"] Before we find Roc's replacement we have to consider one thing, Roc is not gone yet! [/quote] This is true.  Some things have to happen in order for him to leave and those things have not happened.  It is not Clyde!

[quote name="badndn" post="773332" timestamp="1268074651"] On the Boutte front...While the man is an established excellent basketball coach, who learned from one of the all time greats, he has never had to recruit! Recruiting and knowing the recruiting rules has to be learned as an assistant first. If they replace Penders with Gillespie, would we be possibly replacing Roc with Penders?? is that what you meant by "Domino Effect" ps...I still say brink back Skelton. WINNER! [/quote] An old UH guy will be in the running but I doubt it will be penders very seriously.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="773325" timestamp="1268073694"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67027.msg773319#msg773319 date=1268073011] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=67027.msg773308#msg773308 date=1268072529] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67027.msg773300#msg773300 date=1268072067] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=67027.msg773231#msg773231 date=1268065788] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=67027.msg773157#msg773157 date=1268060848] He'll get one more year. Something happened? [b]I don't keep up with them this year.[/b] Is the Southland Conf. playoffs over? LU  stunk it up? [/quote] Another reason why he may not be around next year, he's bringing apathy back to LU basketball.  I doubt Roc will get publicly "fired", but if he doesn't return next year Tubbs better have a replacement that will get people excited. [/quote] Tubbs will not fire him in these economic times.  He has one year left on his contract.  However a former Trailblazer becomes a demon look for him to be gone. [/quote]That trail been dim a long time. Even his name can't recruit any players here. [/quote] I am not talking about that guy coming here.  Read again.  If a former trailblazer becomes a demon rock may be gone. Won't tell you who will be the next coach here just yet. [/quote]And I was referring to the guy who is ALREADY here. [/quote] You said even his name cant get people here.  What name?  Its not a very big one!

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="773308" timestamp="1268072529"] [quote author=sleepy link=topic=67027.msg773300#msg773300 date=1268072067] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=67027.msg773231#msg773231 date=1268065788] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=67027.msg773157#msg773157 date=1268060848] He'll get one more year. Something happened? [b]I don't keep up with them this year.[/b] Is the Southland Conf. playoffs over? LU  stunk it up? [/quote] Another reason why he may not be around next year, he's bringing apathy back to LU basketball.  I doubt Roc will get publicly "fired", but if he doesn't return next year Tubbs better have a replacement that will get people excited. [/quote] Tubbs will not fire him in these economic times.  He has one year left on his contract.  However a former Trailblazer becomes a demon look for him to be gone. [/quote]That trail been dim a long time. Even his name can't recruit any players here. [/quote] I am not talking about that guy coming here.  Read again.  If a former trailblazer becomes a demon rock may be gone. Won't tell you who will be the next coach here just yet.

[quote name="shorttexas1" post="773232" timestamp="1268065823"] Sleepy you are new but probably you are one of those people that said Brown will never make it to UT or that Perk would never make it in the NBA?  Boutte has the knowledge and the name to get the players there and be successful!  I Boutte were at Lamar we would have  never lost kids like Clearance Matthews, Trey McDowel, Kris Richards, Keena Young, Hancocks (the many), Danahoe, etc. to schools outside of the area!!!! Gillespie sounds wonderful but he [glow=red,2,300]will not [/glow] go from big time D1 to the Southland...  Maybe the Mountain West, Conference USA, A-10, SWAC, or Horizon but not the Southland!!!! Gillespie still has an opportunity to get a job in a major conference! [/quote] Gillespie will be the new coach at UH so we don't have to worry about that. I never said Brown would not make it at UT.  While I worried about his attitude adjustment I was more than convinced he had the talent.  Don't get your panties in a wod either.  Nowhere did I say Boutte COULDN'T do the job I just said he WOULD'T get the job.  Settle down pal.  I like Boutte.  Tubbs ego is to big to try out on a former High School coach.

[quote name="coachacola" post="773231" timestamp="1268065788"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=67027.msg773157#msg773157 date=1268060848] He'll get one more year. Something happened? [b]I don't keep up with them this year.[/b] Is the Southland Conf. playoffs over? LU  stunk it up? [/quote] Another reason why he may not be around next year, he's bringing apathy back to LU basketball.  I doubt Roc will get publicly "fired", but if he doesn't return next year Tubbs better have a replacement that will get people excited. [/quote] Tubbs will not fire him in these economic times.  He has one year left on his contract.  However if a former Trailblazer becomes a demon look for him to be gone.

Boutte WILL NOT be the next coach at Lamar.