Youth World Series

[Chester86]

I know it is early, but is there truly an elite world series for youth, outside of the organized leagues (Little League / Pony / etc.)?  I know all about the Nations / USSSA world series, and some of the open world series such as the one in Flower Mound.  Is there a youth world series that is thought more highly of, or is perhaps more well-respected out there?

[rounder17]

What age group are you wondering about?

[westend1]

[quote name="Chester86" post="1178245" timestamp="1329279914"]
I know it is early, but is there truly an elite world series for youth, outside of the organized leagues (Little League / Pony / etc.)?  I know all about the Nations / USSSA world series, and some of the open world series such as the one in Flower Mound.  Is there a youth world series that is thought more highly of, or is perhaps more well-respected out there?
[/quote]  There is nothing close to the Little League World Series.  Period.

[Chester86]

13 year old

[rounder17]

[quote name="westend1" post="1179120" timestamp="1329365667"]
[quote author=Chester86 link=topic=96045.msg1178245#msg1178245 date=1329279914]
I know it is early, but is there truly an elite world series for youth, outside of the organized leagues (Little League / Pony / etc.)?  I know all about the Nations / USSSA world series, and some of the open world series such as the one in Flower Mound.  Is there a youth world series that is thought more highly of, or is perhaps more well-respected out there?
[/quote]  There is nothing close to the Little League World Series.  Period.
[/quote]

Little league is good, at age 12. Other than that, you don't hear anything about it. Im not sure about age 13 Chester.

[Rake1]

[quote name="westend1" post="1179120" timestamp="1329365667"]
[quote author=Chester86 link=topic=96045.msg1178245#msg1178245 date=1329279914]
I know it is early, but is there truly an elite world series for youth, outside of the organized leagues (Little League / Pony / etc.)?  I know all about the Nations / USSSA world series, and some of the open world series such as the one in Flower Mound.  Is there a youth world series that is thought more highly of, or is perhaps more well-respected out there?
[/quote]  [b][color=red]There is nothing close to the Little League World Series.[/color][/b]  Period.
[/quote]

Gotta partially disagree with this statement. I do agree that the whole "experience and Disney like atmosphere" at the LLWS is second to none, no doubt. As far as quality of baseball I think it's very tainted due to the fact that big portions of the game are missing since it's so restricted. Pitchers throwing from the wind up only, little to no stealing bases, absence of the bunt for the most part is a turn off for me personally. Teams are built with guys who can overpower hitters from 46 feet. Most of these kids play travel ball now along with LL so they are plenty capable of playing "complete baseball". I would love to see these LLWS teams at an Elite 24 (USSSA World Series), Platinum Division Championship (AAYBA), Nations Texas State Championship in the Premier Division or one of many other top end sanctioned tournaments including Babe Ruth. That baseball is on another level from what Williamsport provides. I am by no means bashing or demeaning the LLWS, every kid with a glove wants to go there. Just an observation.

The older LLWS, 13 and up, does have some really good baseball as well but it doesn't get but a fraction of the publicity.

Rake1

[westend1]

I've watched plenty of "complete" baseball at age 12 and under.  Get on first, take a few pitches while the runner steals 2nd and 3rd.  No real infielder work, no getting lead runners.  Even the outfielders don't learn where to throw the ball in a "real" situation.  I like select and I think the kids learn a lot from it, but it is no closer to "real" baseball than little league at the younger ages.  And the crowds are nothing like little league all-star crowds.  Just parents.    JMO

[puddin tane]

[i]Pitchers throwing from the wind up only, little to no stealing bases, [/i]

this is one reason i prefer little league..along with what wend1 said....let em focus on the fundamental stuff

LL world series can't be beat

[Rake1]

[quote name="westend1" post="1179685" timestamp="1329443102"]
I've watched plenty of "complete" baseball at age 12 and under.  Get on first, take a few pitches while the runner steals 2nd and 3rd.  No real infielder work, no getting lead runners.  Even the outfielders don't learn where to throw the ball in a "real" situation.  I like select and I think the kids learn a lot from it, [color=red][b]but it is no closer to "real" baseball than little league at the younger ages. [/b] [/color]  And the crowds are nothing like little league all-star crowds.  Just parents.    JMO
[/quote]

Then you have obviously been missing some great baseball. The example you used is exactly what happens at the local league level, not in the higher divisons like Major (USSSA), Premier (Nations), or National (Super Series) and so on. Much higher level of play. If you really want to compare them for example go watch the little guys, 8 and 9 yr olds in Major or Premier, they will impress you no doubt. Seeing 7,8,9 yr olds turn a flawless 4-6-3 DP in a 2-1 game is a joy to behold. Watching kids execute a suicide squeeze in the bottom of the last inning, seeing a catcher completely shut down the running game, or perfectly timed pick off are all parts of the game that are missing from the LLWS. Can or do all the kids at that age do it, no, absolutely not. I'm talking about the best teams in the nation, just like what shows up at Williamsport. Again this is not a bashing thread, just a good discussion about baseball. I certainly enjoy the opportunity to discuss it because like all of us here it's what we do.

With much respect,
Rake1

[Rake1]

[quote name="puddin tane" post="1179715" timestamp="1329445157"]
[i]Pitchers throwing from the wind up only, little to no stealing bases, [/i]

this is one reason i prefer little league..along with what wend1 said....let em focus on the fundamental stuff

LL world series can't be beat
[/quote]

Agree with you 100% at the lower levels. Nothing worse than watching a track meet because these guys can't hold runners etc. I am talking about the best of the best, like the LLWS. The ones I'm talking about have no problem playing by major league rules and those games are far from a track meet.

[westend1]

[quote name="Rake1" post="1179724" timestamp="1329445660"]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=96045.msg1179685#msg1179685 date=1329443102]
I've watched plenty of "complete" baseball at age 12 and under.  Get on first, take a few pitches while the runner steals 2nd and 3rd.  No real infielder work, no getting lead runners.  Even the outfielders don't learn where to throw the ball in a "real" situation.  I like select and I think the kids learn a lot from it, [color=red][b]but it is no closer to "real" baseball than little league at the younger ages. [/b] [/color]  And the crowds are nothing like little league all-star crowds.  Just parents.    JMO
[/quote]

Then you have obviously been missing some great baseball. The example you used is exactly what happens at the local league level, not in the higher divisons like Major (USSSA), Premier (Nations), or National (Super Series) and so on. Much higher level of play. If you really want to compare them for example go watch the little guys, 8 and 9 yr olds in Major or Premier, they will impress you no doubt. Seeing 7,8,9 yr olds turn a flawless 4-6-3 DP in a 2-1 game is a joy to behold. Watching kids execute a suicide squeeze in the bottom of the last inning, seeing a catcher completely shut down the running game, or perfectly timed pick off are all parts of the game that are missing from the LLWS. Can or do all the kids at that age do it, no, absolutely not. I'm talking about the best teams in the nation, just like what shows up at Williamsport. Again this is not a bashing thread, just a good discussion about baseball. I certainly enjoy the opportunity to discuss it because like all of us here it's what we do.

With much respect,
Rake1
[/quote]  No question that these elite teams have more good players, but next time you go to a tourney(i'm talking about 12 and under), tell me how many steals there are each game and how many runners are thrown out.  if you are honest, it will look nothing like "real" baseball.

[Rake1]

[quote name="westend1" post="1179737" timestamp="1329447340"]
[quote author=Rake1 link=topic=96045.msg1179724#msg1179724 date=1329445660]
[quote author=westend1 link=topic=96045.msg1179685#msg1179685 date=1329443102]
I've watched plenty of "complete" baseball at age 12 and under.  Get on first, take a few pitches while the runner steals 2nd and 3rd.  No real infielder work, no getting lead runners.  Even the outfielders don't learn where to throw the ball in a "real" situation.  I like select and I think the kids learn a lot from it, [color=red][b]but it is no closer to "real" baseball than little league at the younger ages. [/b] [/color]  And the crowds are nothing like little league all-star crowds.  Just parents.    JMO
[/quote]

Then you have obviously been missing some great baseball. The example you used is exactly what happens at the local league level, not in the higher divisons like Major (USSSA), Premier (Nations), or National (Super Series) and so on. Much higher level of play. If you really want to compare them for example go watch the little guys, 8 and 9 yr olds in Major or Premier, they will impress you no doubt. Seeing 7,8,9 yr olds turn a flawless 4-6-3 DP in a 2-1 game is a joy to behold. Watching kids execute a suicide squeeze in the bottom of the last inning, seeing a catcher completely shut down the running game, or perfectly timed pick off are all parts of the game that are missing from the LLWS. Can or do all the kids at that age do it, no, absolutely not. I'm talking about the best teams in the nation, just like what shows up at Williamsport. Again this is not a bashing thread, just a good discussion about baseball. I certainly enjoy the opportunity to discuss it because like all of us here it's what we do.

With much respect,
Rake1
[/quote]  No question that these elite teams have more good players, but next time you go to a tourney(i'm talking about 12 and under), [color=red][b]tell me how many steals there are each game and how many runners are thrown out.[/b][/color]  if you are honest, it will look nothing like "real" baseball.
[/quote]

At the big time tourneys like the Elite 24 and such you would be surprised, no doubt. Now on an average weekend at Ford Park, not so much. I'm comparing the top 8 LLWS teams to the top teams in different sanctions, not teams at the local level. The teams in different sanctions look very much like "Real Baseball".

[westend1]

Fair enough.  I can only judge by what I have seen at Ford Park, Field of Dreams, Sulphur, Baseball USA, etc.

[Bulldog Dad]

Check out the USSSA Elite 32 at ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex at Disney in FL... Top 32 Major division teams in USSSA from across the country.  These pitchers know how to hold runners on and thus help thier catchers throw runners out at all three bases.  Not near as much stealing going on there.  It's really something to watch... these young kids being professionally coached in the entire game.  You mentioned "fundamentals"... this is all good, but how about teaching the "fundamentals" of the ENTIRE game.  Properly executing an infield double cut... every player knowing where he needs to be at all times.. this includes pitchers backing up throws from the outfield instead of just watching the action.  Isn't it "fundamental" in the high school level and beyond for catchers/infielders to be able to execute different plays in a first and third situation?  Little league doesn't teach this.  I agree... you don't see this top level at a normal weekend at Ford Park.  Go to a USSSA Super NIT and see the difference in play.. pretty impressive.