Most Ridiculous Court Ruling Over Coach Participation in Team Prayer

[KFDM COOP]

Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) ? The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a high school football coach who wants to bow his head and kneel during prayers led by his players despite a school district policy prohibiting it.

In an order Monday, the justices ended Marcus Borden's fight against the East Brunswick, N.J., school district's policy that forbids him and other staff members from joining in student-led prayer. The federal appeals court in Philadelphia sided with the district.

The high court declined to weigh in on whether Borden's desire to bow his head silently and "take a knee" with his football players violates the Constitution's prohibition on government endorsement of religion. Borden says such gestures are secular.

The school district says Borden, the East Brunswick coach since 1983, had a long history of leading prayers before he was ordered to stop after complaints from some parents. The district says the issue is whether its policy is constitutional, not Borden's actions.

Messages left for Borden and lawyer Ronald Riccio were not immediately returned Monday.

"Coaches are not supposed to be promoting religion; that's up to students and parents and pastors," said Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the school district.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia agreed that the school district policy is constitutional, but the judges differed on what exactly the coach should do if his team prays.

The Supreme Court ended school-sponsored prayer in 1962 when it said directing that a prayer be said at the beginning of each school day was a violation of the First Amendment. The justices reaffirmed the decision in 2000 by saying a Texas school district was giving the impression of prayer sponsorship by letting students use loudspeakers under the direction of a faculty member for prayers before sports events.

[BearBryant]

I'm sure the coach could just take a knee because his ole bum knee has been hurting him a bit or something like that.  I'm sure that the parents of the kids who brought this up wouldn't mind their kid sitting the sideline to be fair to some other "heathen unbeliever". 

[tvc184]

From previous US Supreme Court rulings, I think the coach can pray if he wants to. It is not against the Constitution.

The USSC did not rule that he violated what is constitutionally accepted. What they let stand is a school district policy without comment. Prayer in school is not illegal but it cannot be prayer led by the school or its staff. The prayer itself was not ruled against but the coach has school rules that prohibit it. There is nothing the keeps such a school district from making such a rule.

As a police officer I have a set uniform. I cannot wear a cross that shows without the consent of the chief. I have no religious freedom to overcome department uniform policy. It is not the wearing of the cross that is illegal but the department's right to make such a rule.

Flame the school district for a stupid (and probably uninformed) rule. The court just upheld the school district's right to set rules.

[CodyLB34]

That is absolutely ridiculous. The U.S. Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." The definition of respecting- with regard to. So we can't make laws with regard to religion......So that ruling is stupid. >

[Guest ECBucFan]

That is absolutely ridiculous. The U.S. Constitution says "Congress shall make no law prohibiting an establishment of religion." The definition of Prohibition- with regard to. So we can't make laws with regard to religion......So that ruling is stupid. >

You are absolutely correct - but - little or no regard is given to the US Constitution now days. The nation is contaminated with hard core liberal activist judges who hate (and I mean HATE) God and Christianity severely. And with this new administration and their party in 100% control, we ain't seen nuthin' yet. Sad days for America, for sure.  :'(

[tvc184]

That is absolutely ridiculous. The U.S. Constitution says "Congress shall make no law prohibiting an establishment of religion." The definition of Prohibition- with regard to. So we can't make laws with regard to religion......So that ruling is stupid. >

No one made a law by Congress or anyone else. The ruling was that the school district has the right to set rules in their schools. Nothing more.

The coach violated school rules. His argument is that  he doesn't like the rules. I agree with him, I don't like that rules either. It is however, the district's right to make it. The coach violates no law by silently praying while at school or a school function.

[CodyLB34]

The School violated his rights as an American by restricting him from participating in the prayer......thats the point

[tvc184]

The School violated his rights as an American by restricting him from participating in the prayer......thats the point

He can pray all he wants. He just can't take a knee with his team in what appears to be an endorsement of their religion. I do not agree with the district's decision. It is a stupid rule but lawful. 

I am guessing that a lawyer suggested that it is a violation of the law, which it isn't. The school district probably took the lame/easy way out and made such actions a violation of policy. Time to move on to another district if he doesn't like the rules. He does have that freedom. I've been in jobs where I didn't like the rules and moved on to greener pastures.

[LP1989]

GOD FIRST TEAM SECOND SELF LAST

[dme1111]

That is absolutely ridiculous. The U.S. Constitution says "Congress shall make no law prohibiting an establishment of religion." The definition of Prohibition- with regard to. So we can't make laws with regard to religion......So that ruling is stupid. >

You are absolutely correct - but - little or no regard is given to the US Constitution now days. The nation is contaminated with hard core liberal activist judges who hate (and I mean HATE) God and Christianity severely. And with this new administration and their party in 100% control, we ain't seen nuthin' yet. Sad days for America, for sure.  :'(

I think you are 1000% accurate in your opinion. Just wanted to add, that seperation of church and state is not even in the constitution.  the establishment of religion that they were referring to was a state run religion such as the church of England.  The whole idea that the liberals have been pushing for the last 30+ years in regard to faith and religion are in complete contradiction to what our forefathers intended.  God is central. He always has been in this country. We were born a country of faith and now they are trying to rip the tree(our country) up by its roots.  Rip something up by its roots and it dies... Period...

[Guest ECBucFan]

The School violated his rights as an American by restricting him from participating in the prayer......thats the point

He can pray all he wants. He just can't take a knee with his team in what appears to be an endorsement of their religion. I do not agree with the district's decision. It is a stupid rule but lawful. 

I am guessing that a lawyer suggested that it is a violation of the law, which it isn't. The school district probably took the lame/easy way out and made such actions a violation of policy. Time to move on to another district if he doesn't like the rules. He does have that freedom. I've been in jobs where I didn't like the rules and moved on to greener pastures.

Constitutional rights easily overrides ANY "rule" imposed by any little school district, period. Constitutional rights are the highest rights in the land.   

[tvc184]

Constitutional rights easily overrides ANY "rule" imposed by any little school district, period. Constitutional rights are the highest rights in the land.      

Yep.

Unfortunately even this conservative court agrees that the school district can set its own rules. The right to pray doesn't mean that you can do what you want, when you want any more than freedom of speech allows you to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater.

While the passion that some people in this thread have shown is admirable, it doesn't go along with the law.

[YankeeDawg]

Imagine that...it's considered, in some situations, unlawful to pay honor to and ask blessings of, the ONE who put us here in the first place. Is it any wonder that our country has turned into the sad condition that it has?

HE must look down from HIS high, holy place on these liberal, anti-prayer, ACLU, gay marriage, pro-choice types and shake HIS head in disgust!!  >

[24 over par]

Imagine that...it's considered, in some situations, unlawful to pay honor to and ask blessings of, the ONE who put us here in the first place. Is it any wonder that our country has turned into the sad condition that it has?

HE must look down from HIS high, holy place on these liberal, anti-prayer, ACLU, gay marriage, pro-choice types and shake HIS head in disgust!!  >

exactly

[dme1111]

Constitutional rights easily overrides ANY "rule" imposed by any little school district, period. Constitutional rights are the highest rights in the land.      

Yep.

Unfortunately even this conservative court agrees that the school district can set its own rules. The right to pray doesn't mean that you can do what you want, when you want any more than freedom of speech allows you to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater.

While the passion that some people in this thread have shown is admirable, it doesn't go along with the law.

The issue to me is how anyone would have a problem with a coach trying to do what is right and honorable... I understand your point but America is in sad shape whenever the courts side in such a ridiculous. way.  Its hard to believe that in this time of difficulty and with worse times to come that people still choose to wholeheartedly reject God.  May God do what he has to do to turn this country around.

[CodyLB34]

The school district cannot constitutionally restrict him from taking a knee and praying with his team......The coach taking a knee with his team does not represent a school endorsement of religion....just as if that coach committed a violent crime while at that school is not an endorsement by that school of that particular crime.

[YankeeDawg]

Constitutional rights easily overrides ANY "rule" imposed by any little school district, period. Constitutional rights are the highest rights in the land.      

Yep.

Unfortunately even this conservative court agrees that the school district can set its own rules. The right to pray doesn't mean that you can do what you want, when you want any more than freedom of speech allows you to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater.

While the passion that some people in this thread have shown is admirable, it doesn't go along with the law.

The issue to me is how anyone would have a problem with a coach trying to do what is right and honorable... I understand your point but America is in sad shape whenever the courts side in such a ridiculous. way.  Its hard to believe that in this time of difficulty and with worse times to come that people still choose to wholeheartedly reject God.  May God do what he has to do to turn this country around.

IMHO, I think God will allow all these things to continue happening to our country until HE sees we have come to our senses somewhat and put HIM ahead of all else. I really think it's a test of faith.  SOrry for maybe sounding like a preacher, but that is truly how I feel.

[tvc184]

The school district cannot constitutionally restrict him from taking a knee and praying with his team......The coach taking a knee with his team does not represent a school endorsement of religion....just as if that coach committed a violent crime while at that school is not an endorsement by that school of that particular crime.

You are correct that him taking a knee does not endorse a religion. See my previous posts. I have clearly said that it is constitutional for him to pray in that manner. I have also said that I disagree with the district's stupid rules.

The issue in court was, does the district have the right to make rules. The answer is, "yes". The coach's response is along the lines of, "Since it is about religion, the district cannot make me follow the rules". He is incorrect.

It is the same as in the case from Texas of Daniels vs. City of Arlington that went to the 5th Circuit Court (next highest to the Supreme Court in this region). A police officer from Arlington, TX wanted to visibly wear a cross on his uniform. It was against the department policy to have individual pins. His argument was that since it was about his religious beliefs, he did not have to go by policy. Sgt Daniels was fired and then he sued in federal court. The trial court threw the case out. He appealed to the 5th Circuit. Same answer.

When you are at work, the place you work for can set rules. You cannot say that you don't have to go by the rules if it is based on religion. Well, you can say it but in most cases you won't win according to the Constitution.

[Guest BIG HOUSE]

Wake up folks...This is why AMERICA is in the situation that its in at this moment.....We have ste back and let a few tell

everyone else how it should be....They want to claim to be Christians but you can't find a sign of JESUS antwhere in their lives.

We need to quit telling that prayer is for the church house..Real Christians need to quit leaving the HOLY GHOST at the church door on their way out of service...We must pray for our nation and its leaders that God would bring real conviction into their hearts..

How long will the LORD JESUS wink at our stupidity.....

This coach sounds like a SOLD OUT CHRISTIAN, the kind I would want to be praying for me in a time of need....

The LORD is looking for SOMEONE REAL.........

[CodyLB34]

The work place cannot set rules that violate the constitution. Just as the congress cannot make laws that violate the constitution.

[Guest ECBucFan]

This coach sounds like a SOLD OUT CHRISTIAN, ...

The LORD is looking for SOMEONE REAL.........

AMEN. No pun intended. Rock on' coach!!!  ;D

[tvc184]

The work place cannot set rules that violate the constitution. Just as the congress cannot make laws that violate the constitution.

You've got to be kidding. Better head back to college and take Constitutional Law 101 again Cody.

[CodyLB34]

If the constitution can be violated then there is no point in having one.......Just to clarify I took Constitutional Law in the fall of 2007........perhaps you should take it......

[BigWolf10]

This is a real stinker. It kinda remind me of the issue when the young female basketball player turned her back during the national anthem. The courts ruled in her favor. Human rights is and should be human rights. Even better, Constitutional rights. This hole issues seems like control to me, censored. I thought this was America, not Cuba. :

[CodyLB34]

Exactly right bcjag