Bridge City has 4 pitchers throwing upper 80's?

[HSBASEBALL]

Angelle- 93 ,Haymon - 86, Meeks- 87, Stringer-85

WOW!!!!!

[Baseball1215]

no way that Angelle throws 93...Haymon does not throw 86....stringer sits around 82....and meeks is stays 84

[BC2]

Angelle was throwing 87-88 and hit 92 several times according to the guys with the guns. He did not consistently throw 92.

Haymon topped out at 85 against OF. His comeback looks great.

The other two have not pitched in a while so I can not comment on them.

Come to the games, sit behind the guns before you post.

[Guest Cardinal12]

Stringer is throwing around 84-85 hitin 86-87

Meeks has only toped out around 85 86

Haymon only 82 83 sometimes hittin 85.

[uniden]

Stringer doesnt throw that hard, Ive seen him pitch. Haymon, Stringer, and Meeks are all around 83-85. Angelle's is correct.

[hj27]

against hj the other night angelle was consistantly 90-91

[MIF04]

I understand why HJ would 'wish' that Angelle threw 91-92 consistently...since that can't hit him and that would be a good reason. The truth is that he (on some guns) will touch 90-92 every now and then but sits at 85-87 (on a 'real' gun) most of the time.

I did not see Haymon throw vs. OF so I can't dispute the 85. I did see him throw earlier at Nederland and he was much less. Of course, the nature of his rehab is such that he will continue to add velocity as his strength returns. Remember -- before his TJ surgery, a lot of folks liked him better than Angelle from a pitching perspective. If he velocity gets to a consistent 85-87 by the end of the year, McNeese will have 1 of the biggest steals of the recruiting season.

As far as the weighted balls business, it is (on its best day) hype and (on its worst day) a very bad idea. I doubt that you will not find many (any?) major D-1 programs or MLB systems using it. Its just a way for some part time or former coaches to make a few bucks selling it. Its not just my opinion, it is one that is widely held by Dr. James Andrews ( 'the' baseball orthopedic in Alabama), Gene Coleman (strength and conditioning coach for Houston Astros x 20 years) and Tommy John (minor league pitching instruction and, yes, the guy they named the surgery after). Also, see article(s) at www.pitching.com.

[bleachercreature]

:shock:

[espn2]

MIF,

Those are awful strong words. I think some around would disagree with you.

[MIF04]

I'm not sure if the words are strong or not (and I'm not sure which words you are referring to).

As far as my comments about the radar gun readings regarding the 2 BC pitchers, those are based on what I've seen and what I've had reported back to me by people I trust.

Truth be known, it makes me no difference as to what their 'gun' readings are...except that there be some accuracy (and that's true for any of the pitchers in the area). For example, Mattison Smith has thrown 90...on a legitimate, indepedent radar gun. But he doesn't pitch at 90. He has 'touched' 90 but sits somewhere in the mid to upper 80s. He has reasonable velocity but his 'out' pitch is his breaking pitch. Likewise, Angelle's 'plus' pitch is not his fastball -- its his hammer (and it is a true 'plus' pitch).

With respect to the use of weighted balls, I am sure that my words do reflect my strong (research-based) opinions. If there was some 'magic' to them, everyone would be using them. Texas doesn't use them. Rice doesn't use them. LSU doesn't use them. Major League baseball doesn't use them. Medical and biomechanical researchers warn against them. The only ones who use them are 'quick fix' people who don't have to answer for (a) the lack of long term benefits or ( ultimate injury.

Again, this is JMO....but it is my opinion (strong words or not).

[Homer]

I think the weighted balls can be good and bad. If they are not used corrrectly they will probably lead to injury. When I played back in the day we used the weighted balls on a strict schedule during the off season and they helped my arm tremendously and I never had any type of arm injury or pain the whole time I played through HS and College.

[kem up 10]

No we dont use weighted balls we just have the talent and great pitchin coaches!!!!

[Capt. K]

Hey MIF04,

try your research again about which programs are using weighted balls. There are too many D-1 colleges using them to list right here and the Washington Nationals as well as the Philadelphia Phillies are also believers of the "hype". Just because some folks don't subscribe to the program does not mean it's wrong, different techniques can be used to gain the same results. Tom House was big into his pitchers throwing footballs for arm strength, he had a pretty good right hander throwing for him named Nolan Ryan, you may have heard of the guy. I will agree that if done improperly injury can occur, but that holds true with guys who don't use weighted balls as well. All I can say is if you want to find a common thread with some of the best pitchers in the area (Angelle, Harwood, Haymon) you need look no further than over in Orange where they use the weighted ball program, all of these guys train in the same place and you can't argue with the results.

Capt. K

[Capt. K]

Bleacher Creature,

folks who subscribe to the weighted ball theory believe that the use of the heavier balls builds up stamina, muscle around critical joints like the shoulder and elbow, and velocity. There are athletes who have natural ability and are able to throw no matter what style of training they use, that is just God given. All I know for a fact is that you can look at the records of the guys in the weighted ball program and see historical data that supports the program. I don't know if Nolan actually threw weighted balls in a regimented program but I would definitely say a football weighs more than a baseball.

Capt. K

[espn2]

Capt. K,

How about this list of guys using weighted balls.

Haymon

Powell

Cloeren

They all have something in common too.

[MIF04]

Tommy John surgery?

[thedoc]

Capt. K.................Hmmm??

The K must stand for Kevorkian.

[batterup]

Earlier this season there was an article posted on here about a high school coach being sued by parents-I can't remember what for. I wonder if any coaches (private or high school) have ever been sued by parents claiming arm problems are due to questionable techniques to improve velocity. I'm no expert, but weighted balls don't sound like they would mix well with growing arms in adolescent ball players.

[jdawg03]

well it can be argued about until everyone is blue in the face...BUT why would you even want to risk it....Im sure there are other less controversial things pitchers can do that won;t hurt their arm....IMO its just not worth it

[Capt. K]

I will agree with JDawg03 that this can argued until the cows come home, only question is if weighted balls caused these guys to have arm problems how come they continue to employ the method? Would anyone care to start naming the guys who don't use the program that have had arm problems??? I didn't think so. Poor mechanics, too many pitches, unknown medical conditions, and so on can all cause arm problems. No doctor, guru, or any other so called expert can positively pin point that using weighted balls is the exact cause of any of these problems. All it is speculation and opinion. Again I go back to why these guys would continue on the program?? I guarantee you when Derek Cloeren torched Lamar last year people wondered what he had been doing to get so strong and develop so much stamina. Same can be said from the college of Sienna in New York when Mcneese #1 starter Derek Blacksher crushed them this year and has continued to throw well this spring. This debate back and forth is thought provoking and enjoyable and I wish no hard feelings towards anyone, all I want is for both sides to be represented. As far "the doc" is concerned in a previous post the "K" stands for strikeout which is something you probably heard about as a batter many times.

Regards,

Capt. K

[Capt. K]

As far as the reference to Haymon, Powell, and Cloeren

here are the facts on 2 of them.

Haymon had Tommy John before he ever started the weighted ball program.

Cloeren never had Tommy John surgery.

I personally don't know Powell so I will leave that one alone.

Just like officer Friday says "just the facts".

Capt. K

[batterup]

Capt. K-

The players you have mentioned are college aged. The ones I would be concerned about using the weighted ball are younger kids still growing. I just don't think I would want my son practicing with a weighted ball until he has reached adult height (if at all). There is a condition in the knee called Osgood-Schlatter where the tendons in the knee literally can't keep up with a child's growing bones. It is worsened by repetative stress to the area through sports, etc. Like I said, I don't know of any scientific data to back up what I am saying, but I would just think that while an adolescent boy is still growing, the last thing you would want to do is add even more stress to tendons or ligaments that are having trouble "keeping up" even before they are put through the repeated throwing movements of pitching. Adding a weighted ball just seems risky.

Not trying to step on anyone's toes-just an opinion. You may not even utilize this method to the age group I am referring to.

[sportsman28]

There are many ways to teach pitching. In our facility it is not only the weighted balls but the proper warmup, the tubing exercises, the med ball throws, etc. It is a program that we insitll in our athletes. We have a cycle we work through with equal emphasis on velocity, accuracy, and movement. Not one area is superior to the other. As far as throwing weighted balls, you have to come watch our program. We throw weighted balls from about 10 -15 feet max. Our program has been very successful the past 3 years.

As far as Tommy John goes, not one of our pitchers have had TJ due to weighted balls. The above post was correct in saying Haymon and Blacksher's surgery was pre weighted ball. They threw the weighted balls after surgery, and Derick Cloeren never had surgery. His younger brother did and no known reason for having the surgery was ever determine. Did weighted balls cause it, did overthrowing at a young age cause it, did throwing a lot of curve balls cause it, who knows. It is a fact that there are numerous TJ surgeries to pitchers who have never ever thrown weighted balls. I would be more concerned with select teams that take these High School kids all over the country and throw them practically every day just to win tournaments so they look good. Maybe the people pointing the fingers need to look in the mirror.

If you ever want to come over and watch our 90 minute workout, please feel free to stop by The Zone in Orange, Texas.

Sam Moore

[batterup]

You say "no one knows" why some of the players mentioned had to have Tommy John surgery-but if weighted balls could even have the potential to cause a problem-why use them?

[Capt. K]

Hey batter up,

if the " potential to get hurt exists with weighted balls then why throw them/"

What about a curve ball?

What about a slider?

What about too many innings?

What about not enough rest between appearances?

Why even throw at all if the potential to get hurt is there?

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM.......

Capt. K