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Newton County was just added to the Beaumont-Port Arthur MSA so that pushes the population over 400K.  Maybe that's the last piece to the puzzle that gets Lamar into the Sun Belt.  ;D

I just don't think anyone at Lamar is pushing this issue unless Jason Henderson is really good at secretly lining up the big donors so Lamar can make the jump.  I've been checking the TSUS for any upcoming board of regent meetings and the subject of Lamar changing conferences has not been brought up yet.
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We hope Lamar gets the invite! They deserved it more than anyone else! They have one of the best facilities in the Southland! LU is noted for both academic and athletic excellence! If the Sunbelt extends the invite to LU, both community and alumni support will increase dramatically! We hope they do this!
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[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1405104" timestamp="1368713046"]
You guys are truly die-hard LU fans with short (selective?) memories when LU was in Sun Belt? (1) LU got their butts kicked (2) Read #1 ,plus the expense factor (3) LU can't win in the Lone Star Conference :-\ Southland :-\  ;D
[/quote]Then and now big difference. With the exception of football and baseball, the better competitors of the SBC are gone. What is left are schools equal or slightly better than the SLC. Take MBB for example, the new SBC will probably have no team ranked higher than 140 this year. The argument for Lamar to the SBC is very much stronger today than it was 3 months ago.
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[quote name="coachacola" post="1405048" timestamp="1368675490"]
Newton County was just added to the Beaumont-Port Arthur MSA so that pushes the population over 400K.  Maybe that's the last piece to the puzzle that gets Lamar into the Sun Belt.  ;D

I just don't think anyone at Lamar is pushing this issue unless Jason Henderson is really good at secretly lining up the big donors so Lamar can make the jump.  I've been checking the TSUS for any upcoming board of regent meetings and the subject of Lamar changing conferences has not been brought up yet.
[/quote]I wonder why Beaumont MSA is not part of Houston CSA.

Sadly you are right about Lamar. Either Henderson is a great secret holder or Lamar told the SBC no.
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[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1405104" timestamp="1368713046"]
You guys are truly die-hard LU fans with short (selective?) memories when LU was in Sun Belt? (1) LU got their butts kicked (2) Read #1 ,plus the expense factor (3) LU can't win in the Lone Star Conference :-\ Southland :-\  ;D
[/quote]

Baylor was inept in the Big 12 for over a decade and now they are doing well.  Things do change.  When Lamar was in the Sun Belt they were dealing with money problems and a declining enrollment, all of that is behind them now.  But I haven't seen any signs that Lamar is trying to move to the Sun Belt at this time.
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1405122" timestamp="1368715885"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1405104#msg1405104 date=1368713046]
You guys are truly die-hard LU fans with short (selective?) memories when LU was in Sun Belt? (1) LU got their butts kicked (2) Read #1 ,plus the expense factor (3) LU can't win in the Lone Star Conference :-\ Southland :-\  ;D
[/quote]Then and now big difference. With the exception of football and baseball, the better competitors of the SBC are gone. What is left are schools equal or slightly better than the SLC. Take MBB for example, the new SBC will probably have no team ranked higher than 140 this year. The argument for Lamar to the SBC is very much stronger today than it was 3 months ago.
[/quote]

Agree with UNLV.

Also, I think "getting our butts kicked" because of the Sun Belt is a misconception.  In the case of basketball, it was more because of our choices of coaches.  If the Sun Belt was the reason we were "getting our butts kicked", then we should have been dominant in the SLC.  The actual records do not bear that out.

Bob West of the Port Arthur News had a great article last year (March 11) concerning coaches and LU (Football and Basketball).  I agree with almost everything West says in his article.  I'm not so hard on Coach Alborn since Football was showing improvement during Coach Alborn's period here since he improved the record from 2-9 to 5-5 before the plug was pulled.

[url=http://panews.com/sportsbobwest/x930484196/Lamars-history-of-hiring-coaches-positively-pitiful]http://panews.com/sportsbobwest/x930484196/Lamars-history-of-hiring-coaches-positively-pitiful[/url]

In other sports, the perceived inablitiy to compete is purely a misconception in light of the fact that we won numerous conference championships in multiple sports (Men and Women) during our short stay.

Keep in mind, football was not an issue.  We had already dropped football three seasons (end of 1989) before joining the Sun Belt.  Also, the Sun Belt didn't even sponsor football until 2001, three years after we left.

Below are some facts.
Basketball - Six seasons before Sun Belt
1985-1986  18-12 (6-6) NIT  Pat Foster's last season - Coach Foster on to University of Houston
1986-1987  14-15 (4-6)  Tom Abatemarco's first season
1987-1988  20-11 (5-5)  Abatemarco on to Drake
1988-1989  12-16 (3-7)  Tony Branch first year
1989-1990  7-21 (1-9)
1990-1991  15-13 (4-8) Mike Newell's first year

Basketball - Sun Belt Years
1991-1992  12-19 (7-9) 
1992-1993  15-12 (9-9)
1993-1994  10-17 (6-12)  Grey Giovanine's first year
1994-1995  11-16 (6-12)
1995-1996  12-15 (7-11)
1997-1998  15-12 (10-8)

Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC

1998-1999  17-11 (11-7)  Last year for Grey Giovanine
1999-2000  15-16 (8-10)  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record)
2000-2001  9-18 (7-13)
2001-2002  15-14 (11-9)
2002-2003  13-14 (10-10)
2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run)

Up until this past 3-28 season, we were 9-7 in Basketball vs Sun Belt competition after leaving.  (We lost three this past season.)

For Baseball, we won two SBC Tournament championships going on to the NCAA tournament (1993, 1995).  One of those years (1993), we were also regular season champions.  An interesting piece of trivia is that we're still tied for third most SBC Conference Baseball Tournament wins even though we only competed in the conference for six seasons.  Another interesting piece of trivia is that only one of the universities which will be remaining in the SBC, South Alabama, has more SBC Baseball tournament wins than we have.

For Women's sports, we tied for the regular season conference championship in basketball (1991-1992) before the NCAA violations put the program on restart.  Below are championships for other Women's sports.

Volleyball - 1 SBC Tournament championship (1993) and 1 SBC Regular Season Championship (1997)
Outdoor Track - Won SBC conference championship in 1992.
Women's Golf - 4 Sun Belt Conference championships (1993, 1994, 1995, and 1996) and made the NCAA Tournament Championship round two times (1993 and 1995)
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My exact point!  LU could not compete in the WEAKER SLC.

Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC

1998-1999  17-11 [color=red](11-7)[/color]  Last year for Grey Giovanine
1999-2000  15-16 [color=red](8-10[/color])  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record)
2000-2001  9-18 (7-13)
2001-2002  15-14 (11-9)
2002-2003  13-14 (10-10)
2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run)
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[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1405680" timestamp="1368825272"]
My exact point!  LU could not compete in the WEAKER SLC.

Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC

1998-1999  17-11 [color=red](11-7)[/color]  Last year for Grey Giovanine
1999-2000  15-16 [color=red](8-10[/color])  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record)
2000-2001  9-18 (7-13)
2001-2002  15-14 (11-9)
2002-2003  13-14 (10-10)
2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run)
[/quote]And you keep missing the big picture. Go rank the NEW SBC with the SLC in MBB. Maybe then you will see our point.
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1406097" timestamp="1368934670"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1405680#msg1405680 date=1368825272]
My exact point!  LU could not compete in the WEAKER SLC.

Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC

1998-1999  17-11 [color=red](11-7)[/color]  Last year for Grey Giovanine
1999-2000  15-16 [color=red](8-10[/color])  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record)
2000-2001  9-18 (7-13)
2001-2002  15-14 (11-9)
2002-2003  13-14 (10-10)
2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run)
[/quote]And you keep missing the big picture. Go rank the NEW SBC with the SLC in MBB. Maybe then you will see our point.
[/quote]Its just hard for me to see the picture when I look at football & basketball at LU.
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[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1406242" timestamp="1369054038"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1406097#msg1406097 date=1368934670]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1405680#msg1405680 date=1368825272]
My exact point!  LU could not compete in the WEAKER SLC.

Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC

1998-1999  17-11 [color=red](11-7)[/color]  Last year for Grey Giovanine
1999-2000  15-16 [color=red](8-10[/color])  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record)
2000-2001  9-18 (7-13)
2001-2002  15-14 (11-9)
2002-2003  13-14 (10-10)
2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run)
[/quote]And you keep missing the big picture. Go rank the NEW SBC with the SLC in MBB. Maybe then you will see our point.
[/quote]Its just hard for me to see the picture when I look at football & basketball at LU.
[/quote]You were against Lamar moving up before the 3-28 season and if Lamar football was winning, your excuse would shift to why move up if Lamar is winning.
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A long term decision should never be based on the past.  The past should only be used as a means to identify what needs to be improved.

That said, I don't see us that much different than most of the members in the Sun Belt, and I see us in the upper echelon of the Southland Conference.  We may not always see it on the scoreboard, but our budget and facilities show it.  Could we support a higher budget?  I don't know.  The key factor is commitment. 

If we do jump, I hope our decision makers base their analysis on future commitment (monetary and fan support and enthusiasm), organization, and a determination of who we want to be long term.  What's past is past.  I'd like to see the following.

1.  Provide a long term vision as well as intermediate goals.  Set up benchmarks to determine if things are on track.  The goals and vision should be used as a
    communications tool to get people excited and on board.

    a.  If we see ourselves as an FBS University, then we should work toward that.  We should do everything possible to get in a conference with Universities that have
          similar goals and visions.
    b.  If we see ourselves as something else, then we should work to be the best at that.  We also need to get supporters of the University onboard with that decision
          so that we can move on.

(I hope we see ourselves as an FBS University.)

2.  Set up an Athletics Foundation to help build an endowment.  The endowment could help provide a monetary base.

3.  Contact alumni and folks in the local area and let them know of the plans.  It would be good to try to get people on board up front.  I'd split my focus groups into several categories and weight my concentration on those categories.  Below are some possibilities.
 
  a.  Die-hard supporters - Those who have vigorously supported the program win or lose.  The current Cardinal Club membership would be a good place to start.
  b.  Corporate Groups and Partnerships who are looking for some way to give back to the community and maybe get some recognition.  (I think LU has done a good
      job with this group).
  c.  Season Ticket holders of any of the sports.
  d.  Alumni - It would be good to communicate with all alumni.
  e.  Local Area - This could be achieved through news releases and advertisements.  One campaign I remember very well was Cardinal Craze during Coach Larry
      Kennan's time.  It got the whole area excited.  The TV stations competed with each other on whose news helicopter would be at the game.  The games during that time period turned into events.

One question is how tied is the Athletics Department with the other parts of the University.  I recall Dr. Simmons mentioning enrollment increasing by several thousand when football was revived.  Based on that, there appears to be a correlation.  If there is a correlation, the decision is not purely an athletic one.  The way I see it Athletics and the goal to grow the University are tied together.  Neither exists in a vacuum.
 
I'm in.  I experienced the wins over Baylor, UTEP, and others.  I experienced the NCAA / NIT runs that we had in the late 70's to mid 80's.  I still see good results with Baseball and other sports.  I remember being part of a near capacity Montagne Center crowd for a Women's basketball game as well as big crowds for Men's basketball.  I see no reason why we can't have success like that in the future.  We just need to have the commitment to make it happen.
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[quote name="LUSportsFan" post="1406329" timestamp="1369068410"]
A long term decision should never be based on the past.  The past should only be used as a means to identify what needs to be improved.

That said, I don't see us that much different than most of the members in the Sun Belt, and I see us in the upper echelon of the Southland Conference.  We may not always see it on the scoreboard, but our budget and facilities show it.  Could we support a higher budget?  I don't know.  The key factor is commitment. 

If we do jump, I hope our decision makers base their analysis on future commitment (monetary and fan support and enthusiasm), organization, and a determination of who we want to be long term.  What's past is past.  I'd like to see the following.

1.  Provide a long term vision as well as intermediate goals.  Set up benchmarks to determine if things are on track.  The goals and vision should be used as a
    communications tool to get people excited and on board.

    a.  If we see ourselves as an FBS University, then we should work toward that.  We should do everything possible to get in a conference with Universities that have
          similar goals and visions.
    b.  If we see ourselves as something else, then we should work to be the best at that.  We also need to get supporters of the University onboard with that decision
          so that we can move on.

(I hope we see ourselves as an FBS University.)

2.  Set up an Athletics Foundation to help build an endowment.  The endowment could help provide a monetary base.

3.  Contact alumni and folks in the local area and let them know of the plans.  It would be good to try to get people on board up front.  I'd split my focus groups into several categories and weight my concentration on those categories.  Below are some possibilities.
 
  a.  Die-hard supporters - Those who have vigorously supported the program win or lose.  The current Cardinal Club membership would be a good place to start.
  b.  Corporate Groups and Partnerships who are looking for some way to give back to the community and maybe get some recognition.  (I think LU has done a good
      job with this group).
  c.  Season Ticket holders of any of the sports.
  d.  Alumni - It would be good to communicate with all alumni.
  e.  Local Area - This could be achieved through news releases and advertisements.  One campaign I remember very well was Cardinal Craze during Coach Larry
      Kennan's time.  It got the whole area excited.  The TV stations competed with each other on whose news helicopter would be at the game.  The games during that time period turned into events.

One question is how tied is the Athletics Department with the other parts of the University.  I recall Dr. Simmons mentioning enrollment increasing by several thousand when football was revived.  Based on that, there appears to be a correlation.  If there is a correlation, the decision is not purely an athletic one.  The way I see it Athletics and the goal to grow the University are tied together.  Neither exists in a vacuum.
 
I'm in.  I experienced the wins over Baylor, UTEP, and others.  I experienced the NCAA / NIT runs that we had in the late 70's to mid 80's.  I still see good results with Baseball and other sports.  I remember being part of a near capacity Montagne Center crowd for a Women's basketball game as well as big crowds for Men's basketball.  I see no reason why we can't have success like that in the future.  We just need to have the commitment to make it happen.
[/quote]

+1
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[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1407080" timestamp="1369242149"]
You know, I really admire you guys. I hope you get what you ask for...  ;)
[/quote]Stop lying. You are enjoying every minute as Lamar once again makes a national moron of itself and at stupid fans like me who defended Lamar..... never again.
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1407400" timestamp="1369274257"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1407080#msg1407080 date=1369242149]
You know, I really admire you guys. I hope you get what you ask for...  ;)
[/quote]Stop lying. You are enjoying every minute as Lamar once again makes a national moron of itself and at stupid fans like me who defended Lamar..... never again.
[/quote]

Why do you say Lamar made a national moron of itself?  They were not publicly trying to get into the Sun Belt.  You, on the other hand, should be embarrassed for the stuff you've said about Lamar on the different forums you comment on these past few years.
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[quote name="coachacola" post="1407427" timestamp="1369277271"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1407400#msg1407400 date=1369274257]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1407080#msg1407080 date=1369242149]
You know, I really admire you guys. I hope you get what you ask for...  ;)
[/quote]Stop lying. You are enjoying every minute as Lamar once again makes a national moron of itself and at stupid fans like me who defended Lamar..... never again.
[/quote]

Why do you say Lamar made a national moron of itself?  They were not publicly trying to get into the Sun Belt.  You, on the other hand, should be embarrassed for the stuff you've said about Lamar on the different forums you comment on these past few years.
[/quote]True, very true. If the world does not see you making another moron of yourself, ok. But I saw it. I was quiet on the issue, quiet for me, hoping Henderson was hiding a secret. LAMAR was never in the picture. The evidence says the SBC didn't reject Lamar, Lamar said no to the SBC. Without going over the facts again, Lamar is not so ugly that the frugal SBC would pass on the money and a 12th member. The SBC has no one. NO JMU, NO MO st, NOTHING. A slam-dunk for Lamar. Dropping football, dropping to the slc, and now passing up a FBS chance. You can always count on Lamar.

The only thing I am embarrassed about is supporting and making excuses for Lamar. Many posters on this forum sees Lamar as a big joke. Maybe I should have listen to them instead of hitting back.
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1407448" timestamp="1369281217"]
[quote author=coachacola link=topic=111997.msg1407427#msg1407427 date=1369277271]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1407400#msg1407400 date=1369274257]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1407080#msg1407080 date=1369242149]
You know, I really admire you guys. I hope you get what you ask for...  ;)
[/quote]Stop lying. You are enjoying every minute as Lamar once again makes a national moron of itself and at stupid fans like me who defended Lamar..... never again.
[/quote]

Why do you say Lamar made a national moron of itself?  They were not publicly trying to get into the Sun Belt.  You, on the other hand, should be embarrassed for the stuff you've said about Lamar on the different forums you comment on these past few years.
[/quote]True, very true. If the world does not see you making another moron of yourself, ok. But I saw it. I was quiet on the issue, quiet for me, hoping Henderson was hiding a secret. LAMAR was never in the picture. The evidence says the SBC didn't reject Lamar, Lamar said no to the SBC. Without going over the facts again, Lamar is not so ugly that the frugal SBC would pass on the money and a 12th member. The SBC has no one. NO JMU, NO MO st, NOTHING. A slam-dunk for Lamar. Dropping football, dropping to the slc, and now passing up a FBS chance. You can always count on Lamar.

The only thing I am embarrassed about is supporting and making excuses for Lamar. [b]Many posters on this forum sees Lamar as a big joke.[/b] Maybe I should have listen to them instead of hitting back.
[/quote]

I agree with just about everything that is said.

I see no reason for embarrassment.  My problem a lot of times is concentrating on the negatives.  I think negatives should be looked at, but only as a means to identify things that need to be fixed or improved.  If things need to be fixed, fix them; but don't dwell on them.

Many times I think we supporters are our own worst enemies.  We rarely look at the successes.  We and our representatives need to sell ourselves.  No one else is going to do it.

Seems like the general tendency is to take a "Woe is me" approach and dwell on negatives.  It's almost like we have an inferiority complex about our university, our area, our state of lives...you name it.  There are negatives, but there are also successes.  Would I like to see a more active campaign.  Definitely Yes.

Whether one in the area went to Lamar or not, Lamar is a member of the community.  Lamar is a big employer.  Lamar projects generate business for a lot of people in the community.  Lamar is a big asset to the community.  We should all remember that.  Lamar is OUR Division I university.

Here's a link to an old article illustrating an example of importance of Lamar to the community.  The article is based on 2011 numbers, but I expect the impact is still true  (to the tune of $310,000,000 to the state and most importantly the area in 2011).

[url=http://www.lamar.edu/news-and-events/cardinal-cadence/lu-economic-impact.html]
http://www.lamar.edu/news-and-events/cardinal-cadence/lu-economic-impact.html[/url]
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1407448" timestamp="1369281217"]Many posters on this forum sees Lamar as a big joke.[/quote]

Name one, barring members that are non-Lamar alumni.  Better yet, copy and paste the post that represents your comment. 

What you won't accept is that you build up a plan for Lamar in your own mind and then go on pointless rants when LU's leadership doesn't follow your agenda.  Unless you can give us non-anecdotal or non-hearsay information into the reasons behind Lamar's decisions, it's clear that the department understands the situation better than you do. 
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Since I partially agreed with UNLV's statement, I took up the challenge and have to admit I really don't find a lot of proof of posters on THIS FORUM seeing Lamar as a big joke.  That's great!!

I do see a lot of opinions that I personally share. 

I have seen posts on other forums that I feel fit UNLV's description.  I actually stopped visiting some of them for a long while because I use the forums as entertainment and a way to keep up things since I'm an out-of-towner.  I guess I let those observations incorrectly affect my actual experience on this board.
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[quote name="SabineRavine" post="1407680" timestamp="1369330563"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1407448#msg1407448 date=1369281217]Many posters on this forum sees Lamar as a big joke.[/quote]

Name one, barring members that are non-Lamar alumni.  Better yet, copy and paste the post that represents your comment. 

What you won't accept is that you build up a plan for Lamar in your own mind and then go on pointless rants when LU's leadership doesn't follow your agenda.  Unless you can give us non-anecdotal or non-hearsay information into the reasons behind Lamar's decisions, it's clear that the department understands the situation better than you do.
[/quote]Chillin words to me, 'it's clear that the department understands the situation better than you do. ''  I was told the same after a 5-4 vote to drop football. deja vu And deja vu to passive attitudes at Lamar screwing up again.

Insane to think SBC wanted Idaho over Lamar.
Insane to think SBC wants to lose a boat load of money by not going 12/CCG.
Again, this was a golden opportunity for Lamar.
I suppose play Bacone, Mcmury, and Langston home games beats playing Oklahoma st, Baylor, and Texas Tech at home.
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[quote name="UNLV" post="1407866" timestamp="1369359554"]
Insane to think SBC wanted Idaho over Lamar.
Insane to think SBC wants to lose a boat load of money by not going 12/CCG.
Again, this was a golden opportunity for Lamar.
I suppose play Bacone, Mcmury, and Langston home games beats playing Oklahoma st, Baylor, and Texas Tech at home.
[/quote]

The SBC took Idaho and NMSU because they are already FBS so it keeps the conference from having too many transition teams.

Having a championship game will not bring in a boatload of money for the SBC.  I read they renewed their TV contract which only brings in $40K per school.  A championship game would hardly change that amount.

Getting teams like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc. in Beaumont wouldn't happen until the stadium was expanded to at least 30K, and that would require tens of millions from private donors...not happening anytime soon.  Lamar is still trying to find money for a new video board for the Montagne Center, baseball stadium upgrades, and the softball field.

Lamar blew it big time by dropping football then leaving the Sun Belt.  They may never recover from those two mistakes.
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[quote name="coachacola" post="1408014" timestamp="1369404452"]
[quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1407866#msg1407866 date=1369359554]
Insane to think SBC wanted Idaho over Lamar.
Insane to think SBC wants to lose a boat load of money by not going 12/CCG.
Again, this was a golden opportunity for Lamar.
I suppose play Bacone, Mcmury, and Langston home games beats playing Oklahoma st, Baylor, and Texas Tech at home.
[/quote]

The SBC took Idaho and NMSU because they are already FBS so it keeps the conference from having too many transition teams.

Having a championship game will not bring in a boatload of money for the SBC.  I read they renewed their TV contract which only brings in $40K per school.  A championship game would hardly change that amount.

Getting teams like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc. in Beaumont wouldn't happen until the stadium was expanded to at least 30K, and that would require tens of millions from private donors...not happening anytime soon.  Lamar is still trying to find money for a new video board for the Montagne Center, baseball stadium upgrades, and the softball field.

Lamar blew it big time by dropping football then leaving the Sun Belt.  They may never recover from those two mistakes.
[/quote]MONEY, is not the reason Lamar passed on going FBS. Lamar announcing and the money would flow.
2nd, SBC only needed to take either NMSU or Idaho, not necessary to take both for 2014.
3rd each school would get 40k, the 2 CCG  teams would get a lot more and a ESPN game. priceless.

Lamar would make a boat load more money being a losing FBS than being a winning FCS. So money again is not the issue. Another major screw up by Lamar.
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