LUSportsFan

[quote name="UNLV" post="1410859" timestamp="1370390993"] I was a student at Lamar when Lamar dropped football. There was little to no student outrage. No community outrage. Just mindless minions following ever Lamar stupid move. I felt alone then as do I now. This community with all the talent deserve better than a FCS in the SLC. Lamar is a disappointment with no community respect. And everyone is ok with that. [/quote] I was a little ahead of you.  A season ticket holder from 1975 when I moved back in the area, I was transferred to Lafayette in late '88 and watched LU and then USL in Lafayette in '89.  We played a competitive game against a Ragin Cajun team lead by Brian Mitchell, a Washington Redskins Ring of Fame honoree.  The whole game, I was thinking what a shame it was for LU to drop football and how stupid the decision was. I actually think the fans and supporters were lied to back then.  The spin then was that we would put all the money saved on football and work to become a basketball power.  Basketball wasn't too far away from the GREAT years then so it was a logical sell.  We all know how that turned out.  I just hope we are back on the right track now.

[quote name="UNLV" post="1410856" timestamp="1370389721"] ULM played  Baylor in Monroe. This year is a return trip. C'mon, stop playing with facts, like a politician, as to cover up for Lamar's stupidity. Wow, SFA and UCA is on Lamar schedule. ULL, a former Lamar conference mate, played Okie st in Lafayette. GAWD, I can't believe you said UCA and SFA. I'll give you Mcneese. But that is the mentality at Lamar. Lamar can never and should never think it could be equal or above SFA, SHSU, and Mcneese. Tied to the hip. However I bet those schools don't find Lamar attractive on the schedule or willing to stay  behind just to be in conference with Lamar. What a shiftless low self-esteem mentality. Let me ask the forum a question. There was a time when Lamar was playing the highest level in football while Texas st...SWT... was playing DII football. Fast forward to today. Texas st is playing at the highest level while Lamar is playing jv. Who is was the wiser? [/quote] Not playing with the facts.  Sounds like you may be though.  We didn't play Bacone last year.  All I was doing was comparing the two schedules for the same year which I thought the "Bacone" post was doing. I understand the point being made and agree with it for the most part, but comparing a marque home game for ULM last year with a "warm up" game on Lamar's schedule this year is not the way to do it. Your point could have been a lot stronger if you had compared last year's schedule for the two teams. ULM playing then ranked #8 Arkansas and defeating them in overtime at a designated "home" game in Little Rock. ULM playing Auburn and losing in overtime. ULM playing Baylor at home and losing 47-42. and so on Arkansas and Auburn ended up with disappointing seasons last year, but Auburn wasn't too far removed from a National Championship and Arkansas was on the rise until Petrino messed up.  Baylor ended up with a decent season. As far as UCA, SFA, and McNeese, I'm not saying stay joined to the hip.  I was just saying that compared to last year's home schedule, overall this one is more appealing to me.  UCA was #8 FCS last year in the TSN poll and #10 in the Coaches poll.  McNeese is a traditional rival.  SFA had a disappointing season last year, but are usually pretty good at our current level. I think it was a mistake to leave the Sun Belt.  I think it was a mistake to drop football.  I want our fans to be energized and expect the best and not settle for the status quo or worse. As to the last question that was asked, what about Boise State?  In 1968, the same year Lamar moved to Division I, Boise State moved from a two year junior college to a four year college.  We had a great opportunity back then, but had some disappointing seasons and lost fan support.  Support came back with a bang during the Larry Kennan years, but fell off drastically after that.  One thing we need to do is increase the number of core rain or shine supporters.  We do really well as far as support when things are good, but poorly when things fall off.  I know its more fun to back a winner, but an increased show of support during the lean years can accelerate improvement.  If we want to move to an FBS conference, we need to do things that positively differentiate us from the other candidates.  I think that's where the supporters and fans can have a big impact.  I think we already have most of the "squares filled".  We as supporters need to show that a move up would make financial sense.  We need to demonstrate that we are not going to drop our support when things get tough. I see a lot of folks that appear to have the "It can't happen here." type of attitude in a lot of stuff.  I just wonder "Why not".  There are more advantages here than there are a lot of places that have successfully made big jumps.  We just need to recognize the advantages we have, have the drive, and then start using those advantages.

ULM is playing Baylor in Waco.  Lamar is playing Louisiana Tech in Ruston. ULM is playing Oklahoma in Norman.  Lamar is playing Oklahoma State in Stillwater. ULM is playing Grambling in Monroe.  Lamar is playing Grambling at their place. ULM has five home games vs our six.  One of theirs is against Georgia State (conference).  They had one win last year and three the year before.  Another is against Tulane (OOC).  Tulane won 2 games last year and one game the year before.  That really is exciting. Once we get into the conference portion of the schedule, the home game line up is against some pretty good competition (UCA, SFA, McNeese) and Nicholls.  There are a few teams on our lineup that I can get more excited about than Tulane. I'd like to see us move to FBS and I'd like to see us move to schedule only D-I's in FCS, but every team we play is not Bacone.

Don't know what position was offered.  Rivals free site is listing him as Safety.  There are a lot of safeties on the UL-M roster. It's a hard choice.  I'd hate to have to make it.  In addition to the athletics, there are a lot of things to consider like academics, near home and family or away from home, etc.  I don't think there are any right or wrong decisions.  The biggest factor is how much the individual does on his/her own to take advantage of the opportunity once the choice is made.  The individual's actions and personal drive dictate whether a choice is right or wrong.

Part of the $14,000,000 budget is debt service.  The 2012 budget for FY through August 31, 2012 showed $1,702,534 for that category.  That's not a bad thing.  It means we made the commitment to improve our facilities, but it does reduce the amount of money to spend on the variable costs associated with the program. It would be interesting to compare the debt service component for the other universities. See page 9 of the linked pdf file. [url=[Hidden Content],d.eWU&cad=rja][Hidden Content],d.eWU&cad=rja[/url] There are some other things to look at.  [b]Scholarship costs.[/b]  Based on the USAToday database, our scholarship costs are around $700,000 higher than FBS University of North Texas who can offer 22 more football scholarships.  Our costs are around $1,200,000 more than those of SHSU.  Comparing the rosters on the official sites, it looks like a lot of that is due to the In State / Out of State athlete mix.  We're at 65% / 35% In State / Out of State.  The other state universities that I did an eyeball look at (SHSU and UNT) have a much higher percentage of In State athlete than us also.  I'm glad our athletes chose to come to our university, but in addition to increasing revenues and contributions, we also need to review the costs and see if there are sensible ways to reduce them.  Working to move to more In State athletes might be one way to lower cost in one area to be able to spend it elsewhere. I had a lot more detail from the USAToday data, but my session timed out and it was lost.  Not going to key it in again so here's a link to the USAToday data if anyone is interested in looking it up.  Coachacola supplied it a few weeks ago in another post.  If you click on the university name, a more detailed breakdown opens up showing several years of data.  There's a toggle for Revenues and for Expenses.  There are also graphs.  The columns are sortable, also, which makes it nice when looking for comparisons. Interesting information if you are into that type of stuff. (I am.) [b]Ticket Sales[/b] - We compare favorably with SFA and SHSU.  We're behind UNT, but that's understandable. [b]Contributions[/b] - Again, we compare favorably with SFA and SHSU, but we are way behind TxSt and UNT [b]Licensing[/b] - We're behind SFA, SHSU, TxST, and UNT [url=[Hidden Content]] [Hidden Content][/url]

Since I partially agreed with UNLV's statement, I took up the challenge and have to admit I really don't find a lot of proof of posters on THIS FORUM seeing Lamar as a big joke.  That's great!! I do see a lot of opinions that I personally share.  I have seen posts on other forums that I feel fit UNLV's description.  I actually stopped visiting some of them for a long while because I use the forums as entertainment and a way to keep up things since I'm an out-of-towner.  I guess I let those observations incorrectly affect my actual experience on this board.

[quote name="UNLV" post="1407448" timestamp="1369281217"] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=111997.msg1407427#msg1407427 date=1369277271] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=111997.msg1407400#msg1407400 date=1369274257] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1407080#msg1407080 date=1369242149] You know, I really admire you guys. I hope you get what you ask for...  ;) [/quote]Stop lying. You are enjoying every minute as Lamar once again makes a national moron of itself and at stupid fans like me who defended Lamar..... never again. [/quote] Why do you say Lamar made a national moron of itself?  They were not publicly trying to get into the Sun Belt.  You, on the other hand, should be embarrassed for the stuff you've said about Lamar on the different forums you comment on these past few years. [/quote]True, very true. If the world does not see you making another moron of yourself, ok. But I saw it. I was quiet on the issue, quiet for me, hoping Henderson was hiding a secret. LAMAR was never in the picture. The evidence says the SBC didn't reject Lamar, Lamar said no to the SBC. Without going over the facts again, Lamar is not so ugly that the frugal SBC would pass on the money and a 12th member. The SBC has no one. NO JMU, NO MO st, NOTHING. A slam-dunk for Lamar. Dropping football, dropping to the slc, and now passing up a FBS chance. You can always count on Lamar. The only thing I am embarrassed about is supporting and making excuses for Lamar. [b]Many posters on this forum sees Lamar as a big joke.[/b] Maybe I should have listen to them instead of hitting back. [/quote] I agree with just about everything that is said. I see no reason for embarrassment.  My problem a lot of times is concentrating on the negatives.  I think negatives should be looked at, but only as a means to identify things that need to be fixed or improved.  If things need to be fixed, fix them; but don't dwell on them. Many times I think we supporters are our own worst enemies.  We rarely look at the successes.  We and our representatives need to sell ourselves.  No one else is going to do it. Seems like the general tendency is to take a "Woe is me" approach and dwell on negatives.  It's almost like we have an inferiority complex about our university, our area, our state of lives...you name it.  There are negatives, but there are also successes.  Would I like to see a more active campaign.  Definitely Yes. Whether one in the area went to Lamar or not, Lamar is a member of the community.  Lamar is a big employer.  Lamar projects generate business for a lot of people in the community.  Lamar is a big asset to the community.  We should all remember that.  Lamar is OUR Division I university. Here's a link to an old article illustrating an example of importance of Lamar to the community.  The article is based on 2011 numbers, but I expect the impact is still true  (to the tune of $310,000,000 to the state and most importantly the area in 2011). [url=[Hidden Content]] [Hidden Content][/url]

A long term decision should never be based on the past.  The past should only be used as a means to identify what needs to be improved. That said, I don't see us that much different than most of the members in the Sun Belt, and I see us in the upper echelon of the Southland Conference.  We may not always see it on the scoreboard, but our budget and facilities show it.  Could we support a higher budget?  I don't know.  The key factor is commitment.  If we do jump, I hope our decision makers base their analysis on future commitment (monetary and fan support and enthusiasm), organization, and a determination of who we want to be long term.  What's past is past.  I'd like to see the following. 1.  Provide a long term vision as well as intermediate goals.  Set up benchmarks to determine if things are on track.  The goals and vision should be used as a     communications tool to get people excited and on board.     a.  If we see ourselves as an FBS University, then we should work toward that.  We should do everything possible to get in a conference with Universities that have           similar goals and visions.     b.  If we see ourselves as something else, then we should work to be the best at that.  We also need to get supporters of the University onboard with that decision           so that we can move on. (I hope we see ourselves as an FBS University.) 2.  Set up an Athletics Foundation to help build an endowment.  The endowment could help provide a monetary base. 3.  Contact alumni and folks in the local area and let them know of the plans.  It would be good to try to get people on board up front.  I'd split my focus groups into several categories and weight my concentration on those categories.  Below are some possibilities.     a.  Die-hard supporters - Those who have vigorously supported the program win or lose.  The current Cardinal Club membership would be a good place to start.   b.  Corporate Groups and Partnerships who are looking for some way to give back to the community and maybe get some recognition.  (I think LU has done a good       job with this group).   c.  Season Ticket holders of any of the sports.   d.  Alumni - It would be good to communicate with all alumni.   e.  Local Area - This could be achieved through news releases and advertisements.  One campaign I remember very well was Cardinal Craze during Coach Larry       Kennan's time.  It got the whole area excited.  The TV stations competed with each other on whose news helicopter would be at the game.  The games during that time period turned into events. One question is how tied is the Athletics Department with the other parts of the University.  I recall Dr. Simmons mentioning enrollment increasing by several thousand when football was revived.  Based on that, there appears to be a correlation.  If there is a correlation, the decision is not purely an athletic one.  The way I see it Athletics and the goal to grow the University are tied together.  Neither exists in a vacuum.   I'm in.  I experienced the wins over Baylor, UTEP, and others.  I experienced the NCAA / NIT runs that we had in the late 70's to mid 80's.  I still see good results with Baseball and other sports.  I remember being part of a near capacity Montagne Center crowd for a Women's basketball game as well as big crowds for Men's basketball.  I see no reason why we can't have success like that in the future.  We just need to have the commitment to make it happen.

I posted this over on the other website also.  It would be nice to have some Big Red fans in the stadium. The Southland Conference Baseball tournament runs from May 22-25. Lamar (38-16 overall), seeded 5th, is playing #4 seed, Southeast Louisiana (33-22 overall) in the fourth game on May 22 (Wednesday) at 7:00 pm.  One interesting tidbit is that Lamar's overall record is tied for best overall record in the conference with #1 seed SHSU.  Hopefully Coach Gilligan and team can pull some of their tournament magic from years past. For those who don't already know, Constellation Field is a new ball park in Sugar Land seating 7,500.  It opened last April.  It is the home of the Sugar Land Skeeters of the Atlantic League. Here's a link to a Google search for images of the stadium.  Looks like a good place to have a conference tournament. [url=[Hidden Content]] Below is a link to the SLC tournament webpage with the bracket, etc. [url=[Hidden Content]] The stadium is about 20-30 minutes from my house so hopefully I can catch some games.

[quote name="UNLV" post="1405122" timestamp="1368715885"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=111997.msg1405104#msg1405104 date=1368713046] You guys are truly die-hard LU fans with short (selective?) memories when LU was in Sun Belt? (1) LU got their butts kicked (2) Read #1 ,plus the expense factor (3) LU can't win in the Lone Star Conference :-\ Southland :-\  ;D [/quote]Then and now big difference. With the exception of football and baseball, the better competitors of the SBC are gone. What is left are schools equal or slightly better than the SLC. Take MBB for example, the new SBC will probably have no team ranked higher than 140 this year. The argument for Lamar to the SBC is very much stronger today than it was 3 months ago. [/quote] Agree with UNLV. Also, I think "getting our butts kicked" because of the Sun Belt is a misconception.  In the case of basketball, it was more because of our choices of coaches.  If the Sun Belt was the reason we were "getting our butts kicked", then we should have been dominant in the SLC.  The actual records do not bear that out. Bob West of the Port Arthur News had a great article last year (March 11) concerning coaches and LU (Football and Basketball).  I agree with almost everything West says in his article.  I'm not so hard on Coach Alborn since Football was showing improvement during Coach Alborn's period here since he improved the record from 2-9 to 5-5 before the plug was pulled. [url=[Hidden Content]] In other sports, the perceived inablitiy to compete is purely a misconception in light of the fact that we won numerous conference championships in multiple sports (Men and Women) during our short stay. Keep in mind, football was not an issue.  We had already dropped football three seasons (end of 1989) before joining the Sun Belt.  Also, the Sun Belt didn't even sponsor football until 2001, three years after we left. Below are some facts. Basketball - Six seasons before Sun Belt 1985-1986  18-12 (6-6) NIT  Pat Foster's last season - Coach Foster on to University of Houston 1986-1987  14-15 (4-6)  Tom Abatemarco's first season 1987-1988  20-11 (5-5)  Abatemarco on to Drake 1988-1989  12-16 (3-7)  Tony Branch first year 1989-1990  7-21 (1-9) 1990-1991  15-13 (4-8) Mike Newell's first year Basketball - Sun Belt Years 1991-1992  12-19 (7-9)  1992-1993  15-12 (9-9) 1993-1994  10-17 (6-12)  Grey Giovanine's first year 1994-1995  11-16 (6-12) 1995-1996  12-15 (7-11) 1997-1998  15-12 (10-8) Basketball - First six years of the supposedly weaker SLC 1998-1999  17-11 (11-7)  Last year for Grey Giovanine 1999-2000  15-16 (8-10)  Mike Deane's first year  (Made it to the NCAA Tournament as auto-bid with a losing record) 2000-2001  9-18 (7-13) 2001-2002  15-14 (11-9) 2002-2003  13-14 (10-10) 2003-2004  11-18 (5-11)  (Start of Coach Tubbs second run) Up until this past 3-28 season, we were 9-7 in Basketball vs Sun Belt competition after leaving.  (We lost three this past season.) For Baseball, we won two SBC Tournament championships going on to the NCAA tournament (1993, 1995).  One of those years (1993), we were also regular season champions.  An interesting piece of trivia is that we're still tied for third most SBC Conference Baseball Tournament wins even though we only competed in the conference for six seasons.  Another interesting piece of trivia is that only one of the universities which will be remaining in the SBC, South Alabama, has more SBC Baseball tournament wins than we have. For Women's sports, we tied for the regular season conference championship in basketball (1991-1992) before the NCAA violations put the program on restart.  Below are championships for other Women's sports. Volleyball - 1 SBC Tournament championship (1993) and 1 SBC Regular Season Championship (1997) Outdoor Track - Won SBC conference championship in 1992. Women's Golf - 4 Sun Belt Conference championships (1993, 1994, 1995, and 1996) and made the NCAA Tournament Championship round two times (1993 and 1995)

[quote name="UNLV" post="1402256" timestamp="1368031430"] [quote author=LUSportsFan link=topic=111263.msg1402238#msg1402238 date=1368029021] [quote author=UNLV link=topic=111263.msg1402233#msg1402233 date=1368028251] [quote author=LUSportsFan link=topic=111263.msg1402227#msg1402227 date=1368026534] I think a lot of us get it; just don't understand it. You see comments like [i]"...I think the worst case scenario is Lamar. That just makes the Sun Belt look desperate. Happily, they don't seem to be an option...".[/i]  The poster may have a private agenda, though.  His profile shows he supports North Texas.  He may not want more recruiting competition at his university's level. I see mention that we're not ready, but universities like Missouri State (now) are.  With the exception of a football stadium expansion (which both universities would need), facilities are in place and are as good, if not better, than those of many current members and future members. Comparing athletic expenditures using the USA Today database (provides history from 2006-2011), we compare favorably with members as well as candidates. Lamar Athletics    $13,341,513 Missouri State      $13,829,559  (The Sun Belt fan site flavor of the day) Georgia Southern  $11,245,505  (Received an invite recently) Jacksonville St      $12,154,751    One of the names frequently mentioned UL                          $13,946,204    Current Member ULM                      $10,164,038    Current Member Troy                      $15,246,720    Current Member Appalachian St      $15,454,170  (Received an invite recently) Arkansas St          $13,374,507  Current Member Academically, we're in the same category as many of the current members (National University).  By another category, we're classed as a Doctoral Research University.  Three of the present and future members have the same classification except that they are designated as High or Very High Research Universities, classifications I hope we have plans to attain.  The remainder are classified as Masters universities. [/quote]Would be interested to see their reaction if you posted these numbers on that forum. [/quote] I'd post, but their site requires a .edu or company email address.  I'm retired and graduated a long time ago so I haven't set up an account.  All I have are the usual email addresses (gmail, yahoo, etc) and none of them are accepted. [/quote]The question I would ask if posted, "why does Lamar need a Athletic budget this big to play in the Southland?" [/quote] Good Question. By the way, Coachacola posted a link to an updated list of expenditures on the other board. [url=[Hidden Content]] Below are the revised amounts. Lamar Athletics    $14,390,771 Missouri State      $13,761,264    (The Sun Belt fan site flavor of the day) Georgia Southern  $11,335,102    (Received an invite recently) Jacksonville St      $12,261,404    One of the names frequently mentioned UL                          $17,532,577    Current Member ULM                      $10,769,839    Current Member Troy                      $16,504,664    Current Member Appalachian St      $17,238,578  (Received an invite recently) Arkansas St          $15,307,308    Current Member [url=[Hidden Content]]

[quote name="UNLV" post="1402233" timestamp="1368028251"] [quote author=LUSportsFan link=topic=111263.msg1402227#msg1402227 date=1368026534] I think a lot of us get it; just don't understand it. You see comments like [i]"...I think the worst case scenario is Lamar. That just makes the Sun Belt look desperate. Happily, they don't seem to be an option...".[/i]  The poster may have a private agenda, though.  His profile shows he supports North Texas.  He may not want more recruiting competition at his university's level. I see mention that we're not ready, but universities like Missouri State (now) are.  With the exception of a football stadium expansion (which both universities would need), facilities are in place and are as good, if not better, than those of many current members and future members. Comparing athletic expenditures using the USA Today database (provides history from 2006-2011), we compare favorably with members as well as candidates. Lamar Athletics    $13,341,513 Missouri State      $13,829,559  (The Sun Belt fan site flavor of the day) Georgia Southern  $11,245,505  (Received an invite recently) Jacksonville St      $12,154,751    One of the names frequently mentioned UL                          $13,946,204    Current Member ULM                      $10,164,038    Current Member Troy                      $15,246,720    Current Member Appalachian St      $15,454,170  (Received an invite recently) Arkansas St          $13,374,507  Current Member Academically, we're in the same category as many of the current members (National University).  By another category, we're classed as a Doctoral Research University.  Three of the present and future members have the same classification except that they are designated as High or Very High Research Universities, classifications I hope we have plans to attain.  The remainder are classified as Masters universities. [/quote]Would be interested to see their reaction if you posted these numbers on that forum. [/quote] I'd post, but their site requires a .edu or company email address.  I'm retired and graduated a long time ago so I haven't set up an account.  All I have are the usual email addresses (gmail, yahoo, etc) and none of them are accepted.

We're about the same level in football as another invitee, Georgia State.  They started the same year we did and have comparable records playing equivalent competition. Year      Georgia State      Lamar 2010        6-5                    5-6 2011        3-8                    4-7 2012        1-10                  4-8

I think a lot of us get it; just don't understand it. You see comments like [i]"...I think the worst case scenario is Lamar. That just makes the Sun Belt look desperate. Happily, they don't seem to be an option...".[/i]  The poster may have a private agenda, though.  His profile shows he supports North Texas.  He may not want more recruiting competition at his university's level. I see mention that we're not ready, but universities like Missouri State (now) are.  With the exception of a football stadium expansion (which both universities would need), facilities are in place and are as good, if not better, than those of many current members and future members. Comparing athletic expenditures using the USA Today database (provides history from 2006-2011), we compare favorably with members as well as candidates. Lamar Athletics    $13,341,513 Missouri State      $13,829,559  (The Sun Belt fan site flavor of the day) Georgia Southern  $11,245,505  (Received an invite recently) Jacksonville St      $12,154,751    One of the names frequently mentioned UL                          $13,946,204    Current Member ULM                      $10,164,038    Current Member Troy                      $15,246,720    Current Member Appalachian St      $15,454,170  (Received an invite recently) Arkansas St          $13,374,507  Current Member Academically, we're in the same category as many of the current members (National University).  By another category, we're classed as a Doctoral Research University.  Three of the present and future members have the same classification except that they are designated as High or Very High Research Universities, classifications I hope we have plans to attain.  The remainder are classified as Masters universities.

I guess I am a little more optimistic. Coach Harmony served as Associate Head Coach at University of Miami for 13 years before moving to St. Thomas to start up the program there.  She is familiar with success as both a player and a coach.  For example, Miami made it to the NCAA Tournament at least 7 times including one second round and one Sweet 16 run during Coach Harmony's stay.  Miami also made it to the NIT at least 3 times during Coach Harmony's time there.  Her St. Thomas team had success at its level also. A coaching change is always hard especially when a coach with success leaves.  One of Coach Tidwell's strengths was recruiting.  It sounded to me that Coach Harmony has a similar strength.  It will be interesting to see what she is able to do with more than 3 scholarships to offer.  Coach Tidwell came to Lamar after serving as Associate Head Coach at TCU.  With Coach Harmony's 13 years as Associate Head Coach at Miami, it looks to me like the paths are similar.  The difference is that Coach Tidwell was a High School coach first.  Coach Harmony played pro ball. I hope the team buys into what Coach Harmony and her staff want to do.  It always makes it better when everyone is onboard and going down the same path.