Zone Defense

[no-look]

Some schools just run a zone no matter what. "That's the system and that's what we do." Should your talent level be the deciding factor what you run or should all players adapt to the "system"?

[AggiesAreWe]

I think it's talent level that determines, but I am no coach. ;)

I have seen several local 1A and 2A schools over the years with same coach play a zone for a couple of years then play predominantly man a few years because he had the players to do so.

When you get into higher classifications, you can play a system because the level of talent is pretty constant but can afford to play man because of the numbers.

But, I have seen smaller schools stick with a system and be successful.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="no-look" post="1390646" timestamp="1364868329"]
Some schools just run a zone no matter what. "That's the system and that's what we do." Should your talent level be the deciding factor what you run or should all players adapt to the "system"?
[/quote] Man, you trying to start mess  ;) Your system should be based on your talent, not just play in a system because thats whats comfortable.

[Honest Abe]

Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1390659" timestamp="1364870548"]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote] +1!!

[AggiesAreWe]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1390659" timestamp="1364870548"]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote]


I thought we were talking about high school basketball. Being able to recruit to a big time DI school like Syracuse will bring in loads of talent that can play any style.

That is not the case with small high schools.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="1390669" timestamp="1364873135"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote]


I thought we were talking about high school basketball. Being able to recruit to a big time DI school like Syracuse will bring in loads of talent that can play any style.

That is not the case with small high schools.
[/quote]I thought he was referring to any system regardless of which level they play.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1390659" timestamp="1364870548"]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote]Jim RECRUITS players[color=orange] that fit his system[/color]. Big difference

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1390665" timestamp="1364872098"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote] +1!!
[/quote] You can take that plus away now  ;)

[BLUEDOVE3]

Yep, the question was in reference to high school. Which is a good question.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390697" timestamp="1364907291"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote]Jim RECRUITS players[color=orange] that fit his system[/color]. Big difference
[/quote]

What is it about a recruit that makes him "fit" into a zone system better than a man to man system?  Were Derrick Coleman, Pearl Washington and Carmelo Anthony incapable of functioning in a man to man system?  My guess is that if the coach is a great teacher, he can "fit" most any player into his system.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390698" timestamp="1364907324"]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=110733.msg1390665#msg1390665 date=1364872098]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote] +1!!
[/quote] You can take that plus away now  ;)
[/quote]It was still a valid point. The original post did not specify HS 'systems' only. If it make you feel better, I'll give you a +1.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1390703" timestamp="1364909451"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110733.msg1390697#msg1390697 date=1364907291]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote]Jim RECRUITS players[color=orange] that fit his system[/color]. Big difference
[/quote]

What is it about a recruit that makes him "fit" into a zone system better than a man to man system?  Were Derrick Coleman, Pearl Washington and Carmelo Anthony incapable of functioning in a man to man system?  My guess is that if the coach is a great teacher, he can "fit" most any player into his system.
[/quote]Ding! Ding!!! Give the man a ribbon.  You hit the correct keys to the notes being played out.......
"[color=red]My guess is that if the coach is a great teacher[/color]"

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1390705" timestamp="1364909743"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110733.msg1390698#msg1390698 date=1364907324]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=110733.msg1390665#msg1390665 date=1364872098]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote] +1!!
[/quote] You can take that plus away now  ;)
[/quote]It was still a valid point. The original post did not specify HS 'systems' only. If it make you feel better, I'll give you a +1.
[/quote]Thanks Abe, I can use all I can get.  8)

[BLUEDOVE3]

Cannot believe I just gave Nash a +1. Thats on the scale of Obama and Rep. Majority Leader settling the debt issue.

[stevenash]

My point was that I believe Mr. Boeheim recruits the best basketball players he can find and then has them adapt to his system because he teaches it well.  I believe he could trade places with Coach K or Pitino right now and be very successful with those players using his system.

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1390710" timestamp="1364910652"]
My point was that I believe Mr. Boeheim recruits the best basketball players he can find and then has them adapt to his system because he teaches it well.  I believe he could trade places with Coach K or Pitino right now and be very successful with those players using his system.
[/quote]And [color=red]MY POINT[/color] being is that  Boeheim's recruits have to [color=red]meet a certain criteria[/color] BEFORE he makes a commitment.

[Honest Abe]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390707" timestamp="1364909877"]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390705#msg1390705 date=1364909743]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110733.msg1390698#msg1390698 date=1364907324]
[quote author=Mr. Buddy Garrity link=topic=110733.msg1390665#msg1390665 date=1364872098]
[quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548]
Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;)
[/quote] +1!!
[/quote] You can take that plus away now  ;)
[/quote]It was still a valid point. The original post did not specify HS 'systems' only. If it make you feel better, I'll give you a +1.
[/quote]Thanks Abe, I can use all I can get.  8)
[/quote];D

[Dick Vitale]

Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)

[stevenash]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1390727" timestamp="1364915563"]
Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)
[/quote]
Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1390727" timestamp="1364915563"]
Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)
[/quote] Yeah, a 1-3-1[color=red] full court[/color] press zone.... was one of his favorites, but not mine.  :'(

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1390739" timestamp="1364916557"]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390727#msg1390727 date=1364915563]
Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)
[/quote]
Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense?
[/quote] Always starting mess on here.  ::)

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390753" timestamp="1364920355"]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390739#msg1390739 date=1364916557]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390727#msg1390727 date=1364915563]
Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)
[/quote]
Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense?
[/quote] Always starting mess on here.  ::)
[/quote]

Just trying to learn a few things from you and Dickie V.

[stevenash]

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390713" timestamp="1364911625"]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390710#msg1390710 date=1364910652]
My point was that I believe Mr. Boeheim recruits the best basketball players he can find and then has them adapt to his system because he teaches it well.  I believe he could trade places with Coach K or Pitino right now and be very successful with those players using his system.
[/quote]And [color=red]MY POINT[/color] being is that  Boeheim's recruits have to [color=red]meet a certain criteria[/color] BEFORE he makes a commitment.
[/quote]

What criteria?  Are you telling me that Mr. Boeheim looks at potential recruits and somehow decides "now this guy could do well in my zone defense" and that guy cannot?  Or does he do like most coaches and gets the best players he can get?

[BLUEDOVE3]

[quote name="Stevenash" post="1390761" timestamp="1364920867"]
[quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110733.msg1390753#msg1390753 date=1364920355]
[quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390739#msg1390739 date=1364916557]
[quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390727#msg1390727 date=1364915563]
Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;)
[/quote]
Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense?
[/quote] Always starting mess on here.  ::)
[/quote]

Just trying to learn a few things from you and Dickie V.
[/quote] ;D