Sobriquet

My memories from the same time and place, are that yes, those games were usually close, but there was one downside to it. The visiting team and fans, who were playing in a different state, always felt they were victimized by unfair and unreasonable calls by the officials. Those little things, little variations on the normal rules, that might affect the outcome of the game. Such as getting a flag for violating the rule that says the offensive linemen are not allowed to block if the line of scrimmage is inside the five yard line. Little things like that.

1. True incident. A defensive lineman being interviewed after the game. "They rushed for three yards in the first half, so we made some adjustments at halftime and held them to two yards in the second half." 2. After losing the coin toss in every game that season, the coach told the reporters, "Next year I'm going to recruit a gambler." 3. "We had a very distinguished defensive line. They came in second in the voting for the Nobel Peace Prize."

It seems to me a lot of people have the wrong idea about this game. So to set the record straight: West Orange-Stark doesn't have to play Waco La Vega. Waco La Vega has to play West Orange-Stark!!!!!

What's all this for? Isn't this a day for SE Texas to come together and celebrate? I put a different subject line on this reply. Hope it fits.

Here's hoping he can play and both teams will be at full strength this Friday night. For a game of this magnitude that's the way it should be.

There were a lot of great ones for sure. I just never personally saw them when they were playing on the HS level. But out of the ones I did see: Steve Worster, Bridge City 1964-66

Here's another name. Wynn Pearce--Television actor

Maybe so. But Coldspring will (ahem) entertain West Orange-Stark on Saturday afternoon.

The best 8th grade team I ever saw was the 1961 group from the Jr. High (Carr) that led to Orange Stark. I think they played an eight game schedule. What I do remember is the result. This is fact. They won all their games, and every one was a shutout. No opponent ever scored on them. As I said, they were the best 8th grade team I ever saw. Incidentally, in 1965 when the same group of players were Seniors at Stark, their season record was 2-8. What did Mother Goose say? Don't count your chickens before they hatch?

I’d never say, “Never,†but there’s a lot of history and emotion working against it. Long ago, before most of you were born—and aren’t those words enough to turn you off—so why don’t we take a break so all disinterested parties can tune out. *** OK, if anyone is still here: Back in the mid-1960’s Orange Stark was the big 4A school, 4A being what 5A is now. And this was back in the days of segregation. Bridge City was 3A (today’s 4A), West Orange was 2A (3A), Little Cypress and Mauriceville were separate schools, and Orangefield was Orangefield. Stark had the size, but West Orange had the money. The Orange people wanted to tap into the money, and so they tried to push the idea of a big merger. Stark and West Orange for sure, plus Bridge City and Little Cypress. And maybe Orangefield. When it was put to a vote, the people in Orange always approved it. The people in the other communities always voted it down by a huge margin. So Orange went to Plan B. They dissolved the Orange ISD, and forced the West Orange ISD to take them over. I think the court battles over that went on for years. At the same time the integration process resulted in a lot of “White Flight†to the West Orange schools. And with West Orange ISD in control, the West Orange schools got the best of everything, and the Orange schools got the meager leftovers. There was a lot of bad blood between the two high schools. In the late 1970’s economics finally forced a merger between West Orange and Stark, but there was still a lot of mutual animosity to overcome. So don’t expect Bridge City, Orangefield and LC-M to go along with any merger with Orange. They’ve been fighting to maintain their independence for decades and are not going to just give it up.

WO-S should be pretty good next year. To give them a good tune up for district and a run for state let me suggest the following non-district schedule: 1. Rice 2. Notre Dame 3. Houston Texans

Let’s face it. If any other school had the same record West Orange-Stark has, their fans would be trumpeting that record as proof of their greatness. The only reason someone makes light of that record is because it doesn’t belong to him and his.

My local newspaper likes to "spin" things. Jasper takes 2nd place. WOS finishes next to last.

Mergers happen. Whether they should or not is a good philosophical question. And sometimes it can be a very emotionally charged transition. Like when two historically rival schools are put together. But the kids deserve a break. Somebody is going to have to be a Senior or Junior, etc. in that first year or two of consolidation. And no one gets to rearrange the calendar of life. You get your teenage years/your high school years when they come, and when that phase of life is over, it never comes around again. So if we were loyal to our schools and proud of their history and traditions, then the next group of kids needs to have that too. Even if they have to be there when the merger happens. We who went before can keep our pride and loyalty to the schools we had, but should also promote, starting with day one, the idea that this new school is something good too.

Incidentally, I realize that some people, even some who are part of the game, take a kind of lackadaisical attitude to the issue… But, my strongly held opinion is that the game should be won or lost on the basis of how the players play and the coaches coach. It should never be won or lost because somebody else made a mistake.

Thanks for the info. As for why I asked, I’m just playing with a few ideas in my mind. From some of the things that have been said here, there might be a problem with spotting the marker. Just how accurate is the placement when for example the ball is on the opposite side of the field and the guys manning the sticks have to eyeball it. It’s possible this could even have an impact on the outcome of a game. I’ve been wondering if there’s a simple and relatively inexpensive technological solution to the problem. Which leads to the questions about who owns the markers and how are they constructed. I have some ideas but they’re just in the thinking about it phase. Again thanks.

I have some questions. I hope they don’t sound too silly, because I have a serious reason for asking. I’m curious about the down marker. The pole with the sign like indicator that gets moved up and down the sideline to mark the line of scrimmage and that shows a number, 1-4, for whichever down it is. Q: Who owns that marker? Does it always stay at the same stadium? If so how many of them does a typical stadium have? Meaning—are there any spares? Q: What is the approximate diameter of the pole? Is it bare metal or is it padded? Is there anything else that covers up the pole? And do these things vary from stadium to stadium or is it basically the same pole everywhere?

Those blue and yellow lines. They put them on the TV screen. The TV audience can see where the line of scrimmage is, and where the ball must be advanced to make a first down. But it's just on the TV. The people in the stadium, and certainly the players, don't see them. But what if the technology existed to put those lines out on the field, so that everyone in the stadium could see them the same way a TV audience now sees them? Would this be a good or a bad thing for football? If the players running a play could see specially colored lines marking the line of scrimmage and the first down line? How do you think the football establishment would react to such a technological advancement? Would they embrace it? Or would they ban it?

I googled it. Barton had to forfeit. It goes in the record book as Piggott 13, Barton 0.

Got a final score on that game with Piggott?

I sent you the info by private message.

Could anyone recommend a good high school football discussion forum where posters love and respect the game?

The biggest upset? Easy to remember. Not so easy to talk about. I was pulling for the team that won, so why is it so hard to talk about? Because it’s so removed from SETexas style football. The game was played 32 years ago, in a different region of the country. A place where the rules of the game were the same, and the functions of the positions, but where the framework of the way high school football was organized and operated was so different from what we’ve always known here that it might have been, not merely a different state, but a different planet. There was a school whose football teams were a joke. Perennial losers. One week earlier they were beaten in the season opener. The newspaper duly reported that they had lost their opening game for the umpteenth year in a row. That was an Away game. The following week they were at Home, against a big school from the state capital that was ranked number two in the state. I was there. Just out of curiosity. First time I had ever been to a football game in that part of the country. Something unbelievable happened. The home team won. Beat the number two team in the state. At no time from kickoff to final tick of the clock did they look like losers. They totally dominated the game, demolishing the other team 26-0. It would have been a great victory simply on its own merits. But as things turned out, as the fans watching in thrilled amazement could not have at that moment foreseen, this was the beginning of something that would have profound implications beyond the playing field. Something that would change things for the entire state and finally allow the boys who played the game to receive the recognition and respect that they had earned on the field. It was the beginning of a process that continued throughout that season and into the next until this school that had been such a loser had won the state championship. Winning the state championship. That was the great problem. Until then you couldn’t “win†it. There was no playoff system for high school football in this state, so you could never win the championship on the field. There was a weekly top 10 poll, conducted by one newspaper, and which had ten voting members. At the end of the regular season the school ranked number one was acclaimed as the state champion on the basis of the poll. And because of where those ten voting members were located the dice were so loaded against the schools in this one corner of the state that it was impossible for them to ever get the votes needed to be number one. No matter how great they played on the football field. For the rest of the season this one school continued to win impressively. And week after week they were so unfairly dismissed by the poll. And the discontent in this corner of the state simmered and boiled. It forced a change that was announced for the next season. Not a regular playoff such as we have, but more like a BCS system. Through out the season high school teams accumulated points based on various parameters of their performance. At the end of regular season the two schools in each size classification with the highest points would then meet in a special playoff game. Everyone knew this special game was coming at the end of the season. Meanwhile the newspaper poll continued as usual. The school that had pulled the great upset the year before was now a powerhouse. They were winning all their games. And they even made it up to number two in the poll. But as was always the case there was another team that was also undefeated. And this team was located at the other end of the state, where the votes were. So all season long this other team was number one. Not because they were better, but because they had the votes. But for number two, their number of points were growing every week, with every victory. They knew they would never be number one in the poll. But they also knew that a day of reckoning was coming when the two teams would meet on the field and settle the question of who was really the best. And when it came they destroyed number one. Literally stomped them into the turf. But that wasn’t an upset. They really were the best. The real upset came at the beginning of the previous season. When a losing team suddenly and dramatically turned it all around. When this upset game had ended and the teams had left the field, we spectators filed out of the stands. As we made our way to the parking lot we had to walk by the field house, where the home team, the victorious team had their locker room. We could hear them inside. My God, we could hear them. The school had a certain cheer and during the games the cheerleaders would occasionally lead the fans in this cheer. Now the football players were giving that cheer. Giving? They were screaming it, thundering it at the top of their lungs. They were stomping the floor and kicking the walls and lockers until the whole building must have trembled. Right On, Right On, Right On, Right On. Right On, Robert E. Fitch. We’ve Got The Spirit To Get It On. RIGHT ON, ROBERT E. FITCH

So the coaching is a crucial element. Is it possible for the coaching impact to come from the assistant coaches and not necessarily from the head coach? Meaning that for a few years a school fields excellent teams because the assistant coaches are so good. But then when those coaches go elsewhere, moving onward and upward in their own careers, the school quickly goes downhill, even though they have the same head coach. And how important can the psychological element be? If a school has been everyone’s favorite Homecoming opponent for the last several years do the kids there develop a mindset that they are inevitably going to lose? Do boys who could have played simply not bother to go out for the team? And what if one school comes to think of another school as being their big rival? The team they wish more than anything else that they can beat. If that other team most always wins, do the kids at the losing school become so obsessed that every year they’re halfway beaten before they even walk out on the field? Because deep down they just don’t believe they can win? When one school constantly beats another school, does this kind of thing figure in and help explain why?

I've gotta buy that boy a cream cone.