stevenash

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1364748" timestamp="1358536439"] Since when does an 'athletic' team matter so much? U say Nederland is not athletic, yet Nederland has beaten MANY 'athletic' teams this year AND lost to about 5 'athletic' teams this year. HJ beat Central, Kountze, Longview, and Tatum, yet lost to Silsbee and WOS. Out of those 6 teams, they are 4-2. Any idea what is Silsbee's record this year against athletic teams? [/quote] You can also add in that in both losses, the games were quite close.  Kountze, Tatum, and Longview were very athletic.  Those dont get mentioned because it doesnt support the faulty case they are trying to make.

[quote name="freeze 1914" post="1364692" timestamp="1358524401"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364681#msg1364681 date=1358521407] If you are so confident in your beliefs then Freeze, why dont we make a bet on the game between WOS and Hj next Friday? [/quote] Why would i bet with a team that I  know nothing about? Not going to happen [/quote] You have already stated they are athletic.  They beat HJ before and you are the expert on how much trouble HJ has with athletic teams.  Put your $ where your mouth is.

Dove- Just in case your eyesight is really failing you: [size=14pt][color=blue]NEDERLAND BULLDOGS[/color][/size] [size=18pt][color=red]20-4A District Champs 2010-2012 Bi-District Champs 2010-2012 Area Champs 2010-2012 Regional Quarter Finalist 2010-2012 Regional Semi-Finalist 2011[/color][/size]

If you are so confident in your beliefs then Freeze, why dont we make a bet on the game between WOS and Hj next Friday?

Shhhh, Lazeek-  Mentioning Nederland, Kountze, Longview, and Tatum tarnished the lie that is being perpetuated.

[quote name="freeze 1914" post="1364622" timestamp="1358482161"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364517#msg1364517 date=1358457006] [quote author=freeze 1914 link=topic=108282.msg1364513#msg1364513 date=1358456631] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364493#msg1364493 date=1358453797] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108282.msg1364492#msg1364492 date=1358453391] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364483#msg1364483 date=1358452298] Disagree. When u belittle the schedule u r effectively belittling the approach to the game(s) of the coach.  He quite simply knows more about what schedule best suits his team than u do [/quote]Nothing to be ashamed of Nash, major D-1's do it all the time. A win is a win. [/quote] I dont associate shame with 6 consecutive regional appearances, two appearances in Austin and a state title since 2007.  Looks to me like his methods are pretty effective.  Using the playoffs as a measuring stick of success implies that the schedule is acceptable and opponents in the playoffs, as you well know, are not chosen. [/quote] Here we go with past stats. We are talking about now not past years [/quote] No we are talking about the approach to the game of a specific team/coach and the part you are criticizing is virtually identical to what it has been for the last 6 years.  So, yes, past results DO MATTER .  We could have had this identical conversation last year or the year before or the year before that and all would be the same.  If you have a kid shooting 40% from behind the three point line but find his technique to be what you consider abnormal, are you going to change his shot because past results dont matter?  Rest 100% assured that when the 49ers and Falcons line up this weekend as well as the Patriots and Ravens NOTHING (nada-zilch) will be executed that isnt based upon some success of same in the past [/quote] Okay Nash your right Nash. It's just funny how both of the more physical teams in the district has beaten HJ. I see Silsbee winning round 2. But hey it don't matter HJ will win 30 games this year. Typical fan [/quote] Since you are predicting a Silsbee victory in round two, I assume you also project WOS to win the second round as well because both teams are more athletic and HJ cant play with athletic teams, right?  Most all teams lose some games and yet you would have us believe that HJ losing some is because of their scheduling "deficiency".  The goal of the season ( rather than pleasing you with their scheduling) is to take the personnel that one has as as far in the playoffs as possible.  In recent times, nobody has done a better job of that.  You just happen to be one of those who resent the fact that a very small school from a one horse town can be a contender year in and year out and you are trying your best to discredit it.  The record is there and you simply can do nothing about that because at playoff time all of the scheduling excuses and workout excuses (plus whatever Dove can come up with next) disappear.  If there were a way to handicap high school basketball and make adjustments for student enrollment, the school would look even better.  If I am a typical fan I guess that makes you a typical hater.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364608" timestamp="1358475851"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108307.msg1364524#msg1364524 date=1358458984] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108307.msg1364521#msg1364521 date=1358458562] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108307.msg1364499#msg1364499 date=1358454951] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108307.msg1364477#msg1364477 date=1358451634] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=108307.msg1364424#msg1364424 date=1358444248] Whatever we do, if we jump out to an early lead, we need to keep the foot on the throttle.  Nederland is NOT the team you want to jack around with (see Ozen_Nederland game).  Keep it up tempo and keep the pressure on them and keep their crowd out of it! [/quote] In other words: "Yeah , we will jump out and take an early lead and keep the pressure on. We're not going to jack around with Nederland. WE're going to lay the pipe."  ;) [/quote] [/quote]I think Nederland's schedule been tougher [/quote] Then, if Nederland doesnt win, the schedule doesnt mean as much as 'some" believe? [/quote]And if Nederland wins??? [/quote] then, based on that game, you can try to make that case with some substance behind it rather than just spewing words that sound good

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1364545" timestamp="1358465912"] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=108293.msg1364415#msg1364415 date=1358443651] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108293.msg1364360#msg1364360 date=1358436422] I know the logistics and just plain old human spite may not make this work but----Promoters and " the powers that be"could work on a Saturday triple header @ Ford Park or Montagne. Get your best local rivalry teams for district games [/quote] That would be intense. I could see that as a huge attraction for basketball fans in the area [/quote]I think that's a great idea. Would be challenging bc district schedules usually do not have Ozen/Central, Ned/PNG, and HJ/Silsbee all playing on the same night. All of those games draw big crowds for all schools involved. Would love to see it happen, but I won't hold my breath. [/quote] I would think the admins could get together and find a way to get it done.  Ford Park is good location and it sure would generate a lot of interest.  If it cant be done on a district basis, what would stop those teams from scheduling each other on the same date before district?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364521" timestamp="1358458562"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108307.msg1364499#msg1364499 date=1358454951] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108307.msg1364477#msg1364477 date=1358451634] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=108307.msg1364424#msg1364424 date=1358444248] Whatever we do, if we jump out to an early lead, we need to keep the foot on the throttle.  Nederland is NOT the team you want to jack around with (see Ozen_Nederland game).  Keep it up tempo and keep the pressure on them and keep their crowd out of it! [/quote] In other words: "Yeah , we will jump out and take an early lead and keep the pressure on. We're not going to jack around with Nederland. WE're going to lay the pipe."  ;) [/quote] [/quote]I think Nederland's schedule been tougher [/quote] Then, if Nederland doesnt win, the schedule doesnt mean as much as 'some" believe?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364520" timestamp="1358458452"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108251.msg1364496#msg1364496 date=1358454267] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108251.msg1364478#msg1364478 date=1358451760] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108251.msg1364463#msg1364463 date=1358450187] Since HJ has played PNG just like Ozen has, what does that say about the schedule?  Does is say that Ozen plays the same weak schools that HJ plays or does it say HJ plays the same strong school Ozen plays? [/quote]PN-G is district. You chose to play Spurger and Big Sandy  ;D [/quote] Hmm- I saw Tatum, Kountze,  Nederland, Central,and Longview on our schedule but I didnt see Spurger and Big Sandy.  I usually dont miss many games.  How did we do against those two teams? [/quote] Those were the only small schools I could think of at the time. [/quote] So its better to intentionally misrepresent things rather than take a minute or two to use facts?  I thought somebody else on here had already established that the size of the school wasnt nearly as important as the quality of the basketball team?  I guess that depends on which point you are trying to make.

[quote name="freeze 1914" post="1364513" timestamp="1358456631"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364493#msg1364493 date=1358453797] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108282.msg1364492#msg1364492 date=1358453391] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364483#msg1364483 date=1358452298] Disagree. When u belittle the schedule u r effectively belittling the approach to the game(s) of the coach.  He quite simply knows more about what schedule best suits his team than u do [/quote]Nothing to be ashamed of Nash, major D-1's do it all the time. A win is a win. [/quote] I dont associate shame with 6 consecutive regional appearances, two appearances in Austin and a state title since 2007.  Looks to me like his methods are pretty effective.  Using the playoffs as a measuring stick of success implies that the schedule is acceptable and opponents in the playoffs, as you well know, are not chosen. [/quote] Here we go with past stats. We are talking about now not past years [/quote] No we are talking about the approach to the game of a specific team/coach and the part you are criticizing is virtually identical to what it has been for the last 6 years.  So, yes, past results DO MATTER .  We could have had this identical conversation last year or the year before or the year before that and all would be the same.  If you have a kid shooting 40% from behind the three point line but find his technique to be what you consider abnormal, are you going to change his shot because past results dont matter?  Rest 100% assured that when the 49ers and Falcons line up this weekend as well as the Patriots and Ravens NOTHING (nada-zilch) will be executed that isnt based upon some success of same in the past

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364477" timestamp="1358451634"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=108307.msg1364424#msg1364424 date=1358444248] Whatever we do, if we jump out to an early lead, we need to keep the foot on the throttle.  Nederland is NOT the team you want to jack around with (see Ozen_Nederland game).  Keep it up tempo and keep the pressure on them and keep their crowd out of it! [/quote] In other words: "Yeah , we will jump out and take an early lead and keep the pressure on. We're not going to jack around with Nederland. WE're going to lay the pipe."  ;) [/quote] Dove- Have you analyzed which of these teams has had the tougher schedule?  Isnt that the most accurate predictor of who wins?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364478" timestamp="1358451760"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108251.msg1364463#msg1364463 date=1358450187] Since HJ has played PNG just like Ozen has, what does that say about the schedule?  Does is say that Ozen plays the same weak schools that HJ plays or does it say HJ plays the same strong school Ozen plays? [/quote]PN-G is district. You chose to play Spurger and Big Sandy  ;D [/quote] Hmm- I saw Tatum, Kountze,  Nederland, Central,and Longview on our schedule but I didnt see Spurger and Big Sandy.  I usually dont miss many games.  How did we do against those two teams?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364489" timestamp="1358452931"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108293.msg1364437#msg1364437 date=1358447301] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=108293.msg1364360#msg1364360 date=1358436422] I know the logistics and just plain old human spite may not make this work but----Promoters and " the powers that be"could work on a Saturday triple header @ Ford Park or Montagne. Get your best local rivalry teams for district games [/quote] Dove- would one requirement be to not allow teams that play easy schedules and run cross country? [/quote]No, this is about business. No freebies!! If you can't draw over 2000 patrons, you're off the the "A List." [/quote] Welcome to the Republican Party.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364492" timestamp="1358453391"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364483#msg1364483 date=1358452298] Disagree. When u belittle the schedule u r effectively belittling the approach to the game(s) of the coach.  He quite simply knows more about what schedule best suits his team than u do [/quote]Nothing to be ashamed of Nash, major D-1's do it all the time. A win is a win. [/quote] I dont associate shame with 6 consecutive regional appearances, two appearances in Austin and a state title since 2007.  Looks to me like his methods are pretty effective.  Using the playoffs as a measuring stick of success implies that the schedule is acceptable and opponents in the playoffs, as you well know, are not chosen.

Disagree. When u belittle the schedule u r effectively belittling the approach to the game(s) of the coach.  He quite simply knows more about what schedule best suits his team than u do

Since HJ has played PNG just like Ozen has, what does that say about the schedule?  Does is say that Ozen plays the same weak schools that HJ plays or does it say HJ plays the same strong school Ozen plays?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364350" timestamp="1358434841"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108282.msg1364345#msg1364345 date=1358433648] Last year speaks volumes.  Mr Sutherland has an EXTREMELY distinguished coaching resume at several different schools and until one has similar credentials, one looks a little foolish suggesting they know better methods than he does. [/quote]Nash, you know Freeze1914 is correct.  Nash, repeat after me several times, "HJ's program is not perfect."  :D [/quote] Ok Dove- as per your instructions " HJ's program is not perfect"  Now please reciprocate by repeating after me;  " If a team is competitive and successful on a yearly basis, you cant "talk" that success away"  And I am still one who believes Mr. Sutherland has more high school coaching knowledge/experience than Freeze and Da Dove combined.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364360" timestamp="1358436422"] I know the logistics and just plain old human spite may not make this work but----Promoters and " the powers that be"could work on a Saturday triple header @ Ford Park or Montagne. Get your best local rivalry teams for district games [/quote] Dove- would one requirement be to not allow teams that play easy schedules and run cross country?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364354" timestamp="1358435708"] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=108282.msg1364353#msg1364353 date=1358435496] Why does HJ choose not to play a harder schedule? They play some local 4A and a ton of 2A schools. No school they have played so far this year besides Central and Longview could stay in the gym with Silsbee. Not even Kountze! [/quote]Maybe: to: 1. Pad your stats----- get State rankings 2. Pad your stats-- to get S.E.Texas rankings 3. Pad your stats---  ::) ::) [/quote].      When HJ was in EC tourney Silsbee in another tourney beating everyone by thirty-  If one team "earns its ranking" (by the sophisticated Dove/freeze method) and other team does not and yet when those teams play each other they are very close games, what do you conclude about your schedule theory( other than u believe it sounds intelligent)?

Last year speaks volumes.  Mr Sutherland has an EXTREMELY distinguished coaching resume at several different schools and until one has similar credentials, one looks a little foolish suggesting they know better methods than he does.

If HJs preseason schedule had included Duncanville and Dallas Kimball, I believe the result from Tuesday night would have been the same.  Silsbee won the first game last year under pretty similar circumstances.  And yet, at the end of the year, both Silsbee and HJ lost to the same team at the regionals in two very close games.  Last years results ( similar losses at regionals and split during regular season) does not suggest that the "alleged weak schedule" spawned any lesser results than the "alleged strong schedule"

There were some decent adjustments made in the fourth quarter

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1364207" timestamp="1358372280"] Is it just possible that by HJ playing a [color=red]softer schedule[/color] and Silsbee playing the [color=red]tougher schedule[/color], everything turned out the way it was suppose to end. And,, just maybe the cross country running time could have been used more productively in the gym? [/quote] No doubt about it. 

I think HJ foul shooting was definitely better in fourth quarter as was most everything they did.  I suppose one can contend that this was due to a Silsbee falloff or an HJ improvement.  If you think about it, this game, to my way of thinking, was remarkably similar to first game last year but it didnt come down to a final shot in the last couple of seconds.  Silsbee building big lead early in the game and then HJ trying to comeback.  Who knows, maybe it is possible that the amount of energy expended by Silsbee in the early part of the game ( which served them well) caused them to not be able to defend quite as efficiently late in the game (hence the reaching fouls you mentioned) that may have helped HJ make a comeback.  On the other hand, if they hadnt played that aggressive defense in the first half, they may not have had as big a lead to work with at the half.  My guess is that it is not likely that any team can maintain the same level of proficiency throughout a game if the competition is reasonable.