stevenash

[quote name="DXTR" post="1371087" timestamp="1360266885"] [quote author=Team Game link=topic=109036.msg1371070#msg1371070 date=1360265948] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=109036.msg1371054#msg1371054 date=1360264926] Just a quick FYI- On Friday, the three boys games will be played at Ford Park instead of the varsity girls and then varsity boys [/quote] With all 3teams playing this time will the crowd turn out for all the games or just the Varsity? I like the build up leading to the big Rivalry game and will be there for all 3 games. [/quote]Me too. Just curious...the Silsbee JV is 10-0 in district. Not sure of HJ JV record. Does the JV game have any significance in the district race? [/quote] Silsbee won the first JV game between HJ and Silsbee and HJ will be missing two starters from that game.

Sutherland is a great coach, but I am smart enough to understand he is NOT the Messiah.  I also understand that he  has no exclusive or secret knowledge that isnt available or obtainable in the overall coaching market. 

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371118" timestamp="1360269072"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108925.msg1371111#msg1371111 date=1360268606] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108925.msg1371089#msg1371089 date=1360266995] On another note: Stevenash also knows the truth about pre-integration coaches vs. Post integration, but his "republican" beliefs REFUSE to allow him to admit what he knows is true... ;) [/quote] I fully understand what you are insinuating and if I were doing what you are doing, you would be screaming and yelling racism at the top of your lungs.  By the way, Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Bill Self, Jim Boeheim, Coach K, etc etc etc disprove what you are trying to contend. [/quote] The topic was about HIGH SCHOOL basketball coaches from THIS area, and who were the greatest ones of all time...There were MANY really good coaches from this area, but  the ones who are being deemed "great" from SE Texas in the early 60's got a pass not having to contend with the PVIL schools...THATS my point. Get it? ::) [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108925.msg1371112#msg1371112 date=1360268649] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108925.msg1371099#msg1371099 date=1360267723] [quote author=DXTR link=topic=108925.msg1371095#msg1371095 date=1360267501] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108925.msg1371058#msg1371058 date=1360265114] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=108925.msg1371032#msg1371032 date=1360262921] Sutherland is 619-111 in the midst of his 20th year That is rounding up to 31-6 on average [/quote]His record is likely amongst the highest winning %s in the state during that period of time if not THE highest. Would like to see a more impressive résumé based on pure numbers as you provided. The other coaches were impressive at 22-7/year. Sutherland is a man amongst boys in that category. [/quote]That puts Sutherland with 85% wins. Others are: Terry Culley (Silsbee)    828/257 (36yrs)    23-7 ave. season    76% Fred Williams (Hebert)    704/122 (28 yrs)    25-4 ave. season    85% James Gamble (Lincoln)  670/226 (34 yrs)    20-7 ave. season    75% Cotton Robinson(Buna)  537/98  (15 yrs)    22-7 ave. season    85% Jack Whitten(W. Sabine) 512/175 (24 yrs)  21-7 ave. season    75% all pretty impressive. [/quote] in 3A and below..... ::) ::) ::)....still very good, but in 3A and under.... ::) [/quote] So now, coaching credibility has school size attached to it? [/quote] [b][color=red]No, not really...However, it was in 3A and under...That fact just needed to be mentioned... [/color] [/b] ;) [/quote] I think the theory holds that if you are coaching a competitive 3-a team against another competitive 3-a team, it is equally as difficult as coaching a competitive 4-a team against another competitive 4-a team. or 5a, 6a, etc

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371118" timestamp="1360269072"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108925.msg1371111#msg1371111 date=1360268606] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108925.msg1371089#msg1371089 date=1360266995] On another note: Stevenash also knows the truth about pre-integration coaches vs. Post integration, but his "republican" beliefs REFUSE to allow him to admit what he knows is true... ;) [/quote] I fully understand what you are insinuating and if I were doing what you are doing, you would be screaming and yelling racism at the top of your lungs.  By the way, Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Bill Self, Jim Boeheim, Coach K, etc etc etc disprove what you are trying to contend. [/quote] The topic was about HIGH SCHOOL basketball coaches from THIS area, and who were the greatest ones of all time...There were MANY really good coaches from this area, but  the ones who are being deemed "great" from SE Texas in the early 60's got a pass not having to contend with the PVIL schools...[color=red][b]THATS my point. Get it? [/b] [/color] ::) [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108925.msg1371112#msg1371112 date=1360268649] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108925.msg1371099#msg1371099 date=1360267723] [quote author=DXTR link=topic=108925.msg1371095#msg1371095 date=1360267501] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108925.msg1371058#msg1371058 date=1360265114] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=108925.msg1371032#msg1371032 date=1360262921] Sutherland is 619-111 in the midst of his 20th year That is rounding up to 31-6 on average [/quote]His record is likely amongst the highest winning %s in the state during that period of time if not THE highest. Would like to see a more impressive résumé based on pure numbers as you provided. The other coaches were impressive at 22-7/year. Sutherland is a man amongst boys in that category. [/quote]That puts Sutherland with 85% wins. Others are: Terry Culley (Silsbee)    828/257 (36yrs)    23-7 ave. season    76% Fred Williams (Hebert)    704/122 (28 yrs)    25-4 ave. season    85% James Gamble (Lincoln)  670/226 (34 yrs)    20-7 ave. season    75% Cotton Robinson(Buna)  537/98  (15 yrs)    22-7 ave. season    85% Jack Whitten(W. Sabine) 512/175 (24 yrs)  21-7 ave. season    75% all pretty impressive. [/quote] in 3A and below..... ::) ::) ::)....still very good, but in 3A and under.... ::) [/quote] So now, coaching credibility has school size attached to it? [/quote] No, not really...However, it was in 3A and under...That fact just needed to be mentioned... ;) [/quote] No, I dont get it.  The ability to coach has nothing to do with talent levels.  If the PVIL had greater talent ( as you have said or inferred so often) why would the possibility of a great coach losing a game to one of those teams have any negative impact on his coaching record/resume or his standing in the annals of coaching?

[quote name="bigdog" post="1371117" timestamp="1360268985"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1371115#msg1371115 date=1360268833] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371114#msg1371114 date=1360268672] Your barking up the wrong tree DV. No one is saying Boutte can't coach.  He has proven himself. [/quote] Proven himself more than once at at multiple schools, and with different groups of kids, and with different levels of talent....And saying that he couldn't do what English did at Vidor is utterly ridiculous...The guy's resume speaks for itself. [/quote] Kind of like what English has done, huh?  Bringing two programs from doormat to competitive teams. [/quote] Nope- not at all- Boutte has never had to take over a "doormat"

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371115" timestamp="1360268833"] [quote author=bigdog link=topic=108974.msg1371114#msg1371114 date=1360268672] Your barking up the wrong tree DV. No one is saying Boutte can't coach.  He has proven himself. [/quote] Proven himself more than once at at multiple schools, and with different groups of kids, and with different levels of talent....And saying that he couldn't do what English did at Vidor is utterly ridiculous...The guy's resume speaks for itself. [/quote] Nobody is questioning Mr. Bouttes ability to coach.  What is being questioned is your suggestion/inference that he is the Messiah and that nobody can compare to him.  You are simply wrong about that.  He would not have had the same degree of success( in terms of titles- which seems to be your only barometer) if he had taken jobs at Dayton and Liberty instead of Lincoln and Ozen.  Also, why is his stint at Kountze never discussed by you?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371099" timestamp="1360267723"] [quote author=DXTR link=topic=108925.msg1371095#msg1371095 date=1360267501] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108925.msg1371058#msg1371058 date=1360265114] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=108925.msg1371032#msg1371032 date=1360262921] Sutherland is 619-111 in the midst of his 20th year That is rounding up to 31-6 on average [/quote]His record is likely amongst the highest winning %s in the state during that period of time if not THE highest. Would like to see a more impressive résumé based on pure numbers as you provided. The other coaches were impressive at 22-7/year. Sutherland is a man amongst boys in that category. [/quote]That puts Sutherland with 85% wins. Others are: Terry Culley (Silsbee)    828/257 (36yrs)    23-7 ave. season    76% Fred Williams (Hebert)    704/122 (28 yrs)    25-4 ave. season    85% James Gamble (Lincoln)  670/226 (34 yrs)    20-7 ave. season    75% Cotton Robinson(Buna)  537/98  (15 yrs)    22-7 ave. season    85% Jack Whitten(W. Sabine) 512/175 (24 yrs)  21-7 ave. season    75% all pretty impressive. [/quote] in 3A and below..... ::) ::) ::)....still very good, but in 3A and under.... ::) [/quote] So now, coaching credibility has school size attached to it?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371089" timestamp="1360266995"] On another note: Stevenash also knows the truth about pre-integration coaches vs. Post integration, but his "republican" beliefs REFUSE to allow him to admit what he knows is true... ;) [/quote] I fully understand what you are insinuating and if I were doing what you are doing, you would be screaming and yelling racism at the top of your lungs.  By the way, Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Bobby Knight, Rick Pitino, Bill Self, Jim Boeheim, Coach K, etc etc etc disprove what you are trying to contend.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371096" timestamp="1360267569"] That Vidor team in 2004 had some really good SENIORS in that program, aside from the fact that English CAN coach...See unlike you, I acknowledge when guys can coach...You folks that really do not understand the game tend to think that since Vidor beat Ozen that year (and still did not win district) it makes English a better coach...Though he is good, the resumes are FAR from equal. [/quote] I think it is more delusional to sincerely believe that only one or two people have the "real knowledge and experience" to be a good coach.  English has not had the luxury of going to programs where a basketball tradition already existed or where the talent pool was fertile. If coach A gets hired at Silsbee or HJ and coach B gets hired the same day at Bridge City, will a district title by coach A be a greater accomplishment than  a 3rd place finish by Coach B at Bridge City?  I think not. 

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371077" timestamp="1360266175"] [quote author=CATMAN link=topic=108925.msg1371028#msg1371028 date=1360262604] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108925.msg1371011#msg1371011 date=1360261100] Listen do you guys ACTUALLY think that Buna would have beaten Bmt. Hebert, or Houston Wheatley, or Lincoln back in the days when they were not allowed to play in the UIL? If you do, you are delusional. ::) Has NOTHING to do with my own personal beliefs about race, or how I feel about segregation, or how idiotic it was....So do not attempt to turn it into that...I just know that pre-integration, the "white" UIL wanted NO PART of those PVIL league teams. [/quote]What about Bill Krueger in his older years beat those pre-integration school in the state tour.  HIS RECORD WAS 1096 WINS 250 LOST  39 YEARS OFF COACHING. [/quote] Bill Kruger won ONE state title in 1989...Beat US in the regional to go to Austin, when I was a freshman...PRE-integration, Krueger was at Clear CREEK, and did well, but he will tell you himself how much better the Wheatley teams of the 60's and early 70's were than they were! It was not even CLOSE! [/quote] Once again, all of your "intergration and pre-integration assertions" have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on who was a good coach.  There are plenty of good coaches who never win a title and there are  some coaches who won a title that walked into a good situation.

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371059" timestamp="1360265189"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=108974.msg1371049#msg1371049 date=1360264663] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1371026#msg1371026 date=1360262387] Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor? [/quote]I believe 3 times in one year! I'm sure there was an excuse for that as well... ::) [/quote]Was that in 98 or 03? [/quote] Would the year matter?  Weren't both of those aforementioned years part of the "glory days" when Ozen was invincible?

Just a quick FYI- On Friday, the three boys games will be played at Ford Park instead of the varsity girls and then varsity boys

[quote name="Farmer Fran" post="1371021" timestamp="1360262058"] There use to be so much back and forth smack talk between the schools fans, that it would dominate this board. Sometimes as much as 25 pages or so. Maybe it's just because we are getting older and more mature. ;D ;D [/quote] Or, perhaps nearly everyone is convinced of the same outcome?

Dickie- is it true that one year Mr. English defeated Mr. Boutte more than once while coaching "just" Vidor?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1371011" timestamp="1360261100"] Listen do you guys ACTUALLY think that Buna would have beaten Bmt. Hebert, or Houston Wheatley, or Lincoln back in the days when they were not allowed to play in the UIL? If you do, you are delusional. ::) Has NOTHING to do with my own personal beliefs about race, or how I feel about segregation, or how idiotic it was....So do not attempt to turn it into that...I just know that pre-integration, the "white" UIL wanted NO PART of those PVIL league teams. [/quote] Just what does your statement have to do with the naming of great coaches?

And just what "truth" is it that you want me to admit?

[quote name="ozensfinest" post="1371007" timestamp="1360260752"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=108974.msg1370913#msg1370913 date=1360244401] [quote author=5 on 5 link=topic=108974.msg1370905#msg1370905 date=1360240831] [quote author=ozensfinest link=topic=108974.msg1370869#msg1370869 date=1360205580] Ok i have to put my two cents in this thread...the thing you fans don't understand is that teams like nederland central etc isn't that good and Ozen is still heads above the rest they just don't have the coach to show it I'm willing to bet money that if Bouttee was to take over again next season Ozen would be back running 20-4A a problem I've always had with local area fans is that they seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to their teams and lose sight of being realistic...Do you guys honestly think Nederland has a chance to make it out of Region 3? Do you guys honestly think that any team in 20-4A is state championship contender? Heck no not even close and it will show in the playoffs...stop trying to say the reason Ozen isn't dominating is because the talent is spread all over Beaumont because it has always  been that way WB has had studs and Central has had STUD its just that when it came down to who had the better PROGRAM it wasn't even close Ozen isn't the same program because of the guy who took over the program its that simple and the proofs in the pudding...Think about it when was the last time Ozen won district outright? Under bouttee...Ozen first lost in history to central was under who? Saveat are you starting to see a trend here? [/quote] You want some cheese with your whine  :'( :'( :'( [/quote] What the heck does signing D1 in football have to do with Ozen hoops?  You're losing credibility again.  Smh In the playoffs, a win is a win.  All teams are good.  I think a 4 typing playoff run ended by a loss to a Jones or a Yates would be the same as a 4 round push having beat a Jones or Yates in the second round.  Point being, it doesn't matter who you play, it's all about keep winning, which last years Ozen team did.  Don't let your hate for Saveat cause you to discredit those kid's accomplishments.  They did make it farther in the playoffs than Nederland AND Central with a subpar coach as you put it AND being a third place team... [/quote]I guess you missed my statement about me actually PLAYING FOR OZEN bball team and you said i barely knew about football and my rebuttal was I signed a D-1 scholarship to play FOOTBALL...I would like to hear your credentials in sports  :-\ as far as Ozen making it further than Nederland in the playoffs that is not considered an accomplishment to us Ozen fans who've watched the glory days at Ozen and the tradition that program was built upon...beating Nederland is supposed to be a sure thing when your playing for Ozen and it was until Saveat took over I don't see what you guys don't see here I don't dislike Saveat as a person he's just not fit for the job at Ozen and its been showing for 4 years now soulja your giving ozen credit for making it to regionals anything short of a state title appearance or championship is considered a failure at Ozen...but i see why you view that as an accomplishment since your a central fan you guys aren't used to a winning tradition on the hardwood [/quote] Do you belive Ozen would be undefeated at this point if Boutte was still the coach?

Yep, pretty impressive.

[quote name="usedtobe" post="1370963" timestamp="1360254230"] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=109028.msg1370925#msg1370925 date=1360247086] Who so you think wins this one? HJ is seaking revenge after a earlier lost. [/quote] BS, you're in the wrong profession.  You should be a headline writer for USA TODAY.  You're so astute! ;D [/quote] What impresses you, usedtobe?  Is it the part that says "who so you think" or is it "after [b]a [/b] earlier [b]lost[/b]?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1370964" timestamp="1360254609"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=108974.msg1370962#msg1370962 date=1360254228] [quote author=team first link=topic=108974.msg1370935#msg1370935 date=1360249604] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370898#msg1370898 date=1360215625] PNG NEVER BEAT LINCOLN....EVER...Next question. [/quote] Wrong again dickie v, png beat lincoln in 92. [/quote] Holy Cow!!!!!!  Is it true?  Was Dickie V wrong?  Impossible!!!!!!! [/quote] 91-92, they were young, but still won district....They lost at LCM that year, not PNG...I will call and ask, but I am about 99% sure it was NOT PNG... [/quote] Who are you going to call? 

[quote name="team first" post="1370935" timestamp="1360249604"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=108974.msg1370898#msg1370898 date=1360215625] PNG NEVER BEAT LINCOLN....EVER...Next question. [/quote] Wrong again dickie v, png beat lincoln in 92. [/quote] Holy Cow!!!!!!  Is it true?  Was Dickie V wrong?  Impossible!!!!!!!

[quote name="knows2much" post="1370569" timestamp="1360160946"] I have always had a problem with this topic.  I'm not saying that all of the coaches listed are not great coaches....they all have proven track records, experience, resume's...etc.  But what truly makes a good coach?  If someone truly is the "best" coach...then why don't they win a title every year?  Why don't they win every game?  Aren't they in a position every game to "out coach" the opposing coach? Did the TCU coach "outcoach" Bill Self last night? You cannot tell me that a coach that has won a championship is a better coach than all coaches that have not won a championship. [/quote]

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1370919" timestamp="1360246170"] WOW!! You just answered my question from the other thread about why teams like Nederland should never beat the Ozen's of the world....As Cyndi Lauper sang 'And we see your true colors shinning through...' Sad you think that way... [/quote] ;D

[size=14pt][b][color=navy][font=trebuchet ms]20-4A District Champs 2010-2012 Bi-District Champs 2010-2012 Area Champs 2010-2012 Regional Quarter Finalist 2010-2012 Regional Semi-Finalist 2011 Big time victory at Ozen on 2/5/13[/font][/color][/b][/size]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1370770" timestamp="1360183601"] Stevenash don't start that about Ozen getting the best in Beaumont, because that was certainly NOT the case.  I will say this again: WESTBROOK AND CENTRAL HAVE ALWAYS HAD TALENT. And in some years MORE than we did at Ozen. This year Central has GREAT young talent, but the only way Nederland has ANY shot at beating them is the fact that Brian English is a much better coach than Central's coach...MUCH BETTER. With the right guy on the Central sideline, they blow that district away, UNDEFEATED. JUST like we did.... ;) [/quote] Let me  pose this question to you Dickie.  If Boutte was at Ozen and you were at Central, who would win the head to head matches and who would win the district title?