stevenash

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1391012" timestamp="1364993615"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110469.msg1390852#msg1390852 date=1364940782] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110469.msg1390839#msg1390839 date=1364937135] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110469.msg1390810#msg1390810 date=1364928547] Dove- get some new victims- blaming Fox and Bush is out of date [/quote]Well, thats one of the major problems with you guys. Yall very  limited as to how and where you get your information for entertainment.  ;) [/quote] Please enlighten me.  Tell me how your news and entertainment is superior to mine. [/quote]Easy! We listen/watch CNN, MSNBC, fox, ABC, CBS,NBC, etc. Yall, well thats a different story. [s]Drugbaugh[/s]...err Limbaugh, [s]Prick[/s], errr Beck, fox and palin. [/quote] I am astonished at some of your "capabilities" , Dove.  It is simply amazing that you know exactly what we watch but, at the same time, we haven't the slightest idea what you watch.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390875" timestamp="1364945845"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390853#msg1390853 date=1364940916] Whatever you say.  I am still of the opinion that if you are running at me full speed and I move in the opposite direction (properly timed) you wont be so fast that I don't have a brief opening.  Ray Allen makes a pretty good living without the crossover/create his own shot.  If what you say is 100% accurate, then Larry Bird should have never scored. [/quote]Nash, you are leaving out a valuable equation to your solution. And I totally agree with you on your examples. But you continually want to compare players who were or are very dedicated to their craft. Not many high schoolers are dedicated to this craft. So with that being said, I still stand by by original statement. They don't work out 'adjusting their game."  ;) [/quote] You also are talking about dedicated crossover experts so I use dedicated non crossover experts for comparisons sake.  So if we compare the not so dedicated catch and shooter with the not so dedicated fast/quick athlete, I still believe the "opportunities" are comparable.  Now if you want to compare the dedicated and smart crossover guy with the non dedicated catch and shoot guy, I have no disagreement with your contention.

Whatever you say.  I am still of the opinion that if you are running at me full speed and I move in the opposite direction (properly timed) you wont be so fast that I don't have a brief opening.  Ray Allen makes a pretty good living without the crossover/create his own shot.  If what you say is 100% accurate, then Larry Bird should have never scored.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390839" timestamp="1364937135"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110469.msg1390810#msg1390810 date=1364928547] Dove- get some new victims- blaming Fox and Bush is out of date [/quote]Well, thats one of the major problems with you guys. Yall very  limited as to how and where you get your information for entertainment.  ;) [/quote] Please enlighten me.  Tell me how your news and entertainment is superior to mine.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390832" timestamp="1364934157"] [quote author=Basketball IQ link=topic=110733.msg1390820#msg1390820 date=1364930507] Depends on the opponent huh? Various types of defenses are practiced in the hopes that the coach will implement whichever one increases his chance of beating that particular opponent. Personally I would play zone against any team in the Golden Triangle (as they are less than proficient at shooting from the outside) and force them to do what they're not comfortable doing which is stroking the jumper. The average high school team is fortunate if they have one 40%'er from the floor so coaching a squad up with the mentality of allowing your opponent one shot only, procuring the rebound and fast breaking out of the zone is a viable game plan in this day and age where player's are enamored with the cross-over versus the catch and shoot..... [/quote]In high school, I'll take a [s]cross-over [/s] ...errr create your own shot AND a catch and shoot player any day than a catch & shoot (only)player in high school. Most catch & shoot kids can't shoot with a man closing in fast in their space. Kids are more athletic and quicker these days and can guard catch and shoot players. [/quote] Dove, If I am the catch and shoot player and you are the quick athletic guy who is closing on me very quickly, I am going to guess a small head fake may create an opening for the slowest of the slow.

[quote name="Mr. Buddy Garrity" post="1390823" timestamp="1364931453"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390821#msg1390821 date=1364930704] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390819#msg1390819 date=1364930294] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390817#msg1390817 date=1364929648] There does not appear to be a lot of holes/gaps in the Syracuse zone. [/quote] Of course there is.  Its sometimes just hard to see with all of that length they have! Syracuse believes in that zone and they live and die by it. Which means they may play it a little better than most teams that use it as a secondary defense. [/quote] Well, if there is, then why hasnt it been exploited and why is Syracuse still playing? [/quote] Cause their zone is the equal of Louisville's Press: [b]You simply cant beat it throughout the duration of the game[/b] which is why i think those two will meet for the National Title. [/quote] Sure would be an interesting final.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1390819" timestamp="1364930294"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390817#msg1390817 date=1364929648] There does not appear to be a lot of holes/gaps in the Syracuse zone. [/quote] Of course there is.  Its sometimes just hard to see with all of that length they have! Syracuse believes in that zone and they live and die by it. Which means they may play it a little better than most teams that use it as a secondary defense. [/quote] Well, if there is, then why hasnt it been exploited and why is Syracuse still playing?

There does not appear to be a lot of holes/gaps in the Syracuse zone.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1390811" timestamp="1364928561"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390739#msg1390739 date=1364916557] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390727#msg1390727 date=1364915563] Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;) [/quote] Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense? [/quote] [size=12pt][/size][color=red][color=red][size=12pt][/size][/color][color=black]You can NEVER really adapt to a solid MAN defense[/color]...[/color]You can make some adjustments, meaning a ball screen or back pick here or there, but as far as adapting to a good one, not really...The key word in my statement about zone was EMPHASIZING....Placing EMPHASIS on help principles... ::) ::)...Stevenash, this is the WRONG area to challenge me, my friend... 8) [/quote] If what you say is true (you can NEVER really adapt) then how does anybody ever score on a solid man to man defense?  You must also then explain to me why Syracuse is still in the tourney.  After all, they have encountered some very talented and smart oppositions along the way.  By the way Dickie, you may think I shouldnt challenge you in this area but I have no problem doing so.  There are few, if any, absolutes in these types of discussions and I have access to some pretty decent minds regarding the game.

Dove- get some new victims- blaming Fox and Bush is out of date

Do you think he recruited Carmelo because of his adaptability to a zone defense?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390713" timestamp="1364911625"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390710#msg1390710 date=1364910652] My point was that I believe Mr. Boeheim recruits the best basketball players he can find and then has them adapt to his system because he teaches it well.  I believe he could trade places with Coach K or Pitino right now and be very successful with those players using his system. [/quote]And [color=red]MY POINT[/color] being is that  Boeheim's recruits have to [color=red]meet a certain criteria[/color] BEFORE he makes a commitment. [/quote] What criteria?  Are you telling me that Mr. Boeheim looks at potential recruits and somehow decides "now this guy could do well in my zone defense" and that guy cannot?  Or does he do like most coaches and gets the best players he can get?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390753" timestamp="1364920355"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110733.msg1390739#msg1390739 date=1364916557] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110733.msg1390727#msg1390727 date=1364915563] Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;) [/quote] Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense? [/quote] Always starting mess on here.  ::) [/quote] Just trying to learn a few things from you and Dickie V.

Well, Dove, if you are correct, we are in great shape because I was thinking there were more than 1% who were lazy, especially since we have a system that encourages laziness.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390704" timestamp="1364909590"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110469.msg1390656#msg1390656 date=1364870328] [quote author=no-look link=topic=110469.msg1390624#msg1390624 date=1364863818] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110469.msg1390619#msg1390619 date=1364862893] [quote author=no-look link=topic=110469.msg1390614#msg1390614 date=1364861891] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110469.msg1390596#msg1390596 date=1364854296] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110469.msg1390489#msg1390489 date=1364829356] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110469.msg1390472#msg1390472 date=1364826189] Is the "capital establishment" comprised of bad people? [/quote] Greedy people who will stop at nothing to take your dollars for profit. [/quote] Dove, if you still sell cars, then you are a MAJOR hypocrite! :-X [/quote]It's 99% of those car salesmen that give the rest of them a bad name...  ;D  Just kidding, I sold cars for about six years. [/quote] Hmmm? Did I fire you? [/quote]Nah, I was always in the top three. It was those guys on or near the bottom that would get the axe...lol [/quote]Maybe those at the top should share their profits with those at the bottom so they don't get the axe? That should motivate...NOBODY!! ;D [/quote] Only  the 1% are lazy.  ;D [/quote] The 1% are lazy and pay most of the taxes.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1390727" timestamp="1364915563"] Some coaches just believe in the zone concept, and what it can do to a team defensively. My dad was a HUGE zone guy..Me, not so much..I think that zones expose weaknesses in a team's ability to actually defend. On the high school level, trapping zones thrown in every now and then are good to stymie a team offensively and get them off of their rhythm, but like any other zone, if you stay in it long enough, they will adapt to it, and its no longer effective. Its hard to adapt to tough man defense..If you can disrupt an offense playing man, you've done something! That means you are guarding your B---S off!  ;D ;D...Side note: You DO NOT have to have athletes to play man, contrary to what some may think.  As a coach you have to be able to teach more "team" man concepts, which emphasizes help principles...But thats another conversation for another day.. ;) [/quote] Dickie- Don't help principles imply that some sort of "zone" is, in effect, being used?  As for "staying in it long enough" would that statement not apply to any type of defense?

My point was that I believe Mr. Boeheim recruits the best basketball players he can find and then has them adapt to his system because he teaches it well.  I believe he could trade places with Coach K or Pitino right now and be very successful with those players using his system.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390697" timestamp="1364907291"] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110733.msg1390659#msg1390659 date=1364870548] Do players who play for Jim Boeheim not have the talent level to play man defense? They absolutely COULD play man, but they don't bc of his 'system'. Seems to be working pretty well for him. ;) [/quote]Jim RECRUITS players[color=orange] that fit his system[/color]. Big difference [/quote] What is it about a recruit that makes him "fit" into a zone system better than a man to man system?  Were Derrick Coleman, Pearl Washington and Carmelo Anthony incapable of functioning in a man to man system?  My guess is that if the coach is a great teacher, he can "fit" most any player into his system.

I too have a background in the car business

Is profit a bad thing?

Is the "capital establishment" comprised of bad people?

What peers would that be?

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="1390176" timestamp="1364650798"] [quote author=no-look link=topic=110281.msg1389526#msg1389526 date=1364433584] Any mid range jumpers? [/quote] Yes, are we NOT counting the SMRJ or the Dunk-o-Meter stats on these performances? [/quote] ;D

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1390101" timestamp="1364589293"] High school is good because it keeps the kids in the gym on a regular basis and keeps them active. Personally. I don't see the commitment from a lot of kids to get better. High school and the same for AAU does not afford the time for individual development, never has in my opinion. Today, kids are more interested in going to the next level.  The biggest difference today is that many  players  get their recognition and college scholarships  away from the high school environment. I'm just not sure if the high schools will ever be given the power. Does not look like it. [/quote] Does Triple A have "the power"?

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