Kiss basketball goodbye in HF!!!

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816138" timestamp="1278300273"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816135#msg816135 date=1278299196]
Well, why don't we wait until after one season under the direction of Coach Price before criticizing his methods?  I'm not real familiar with the universal off season program, but it appears that the manner in which Coach Price organized it in Barbers Hill was a bit more successful than Coach Mangan's administration of it at H-F.  Forgive me H-F folks, but is not as if the football program was benefiting at the expense of basketball under this program.  The 2009 H-F football team lost all 10 games that it played, scored over 20 points only once and gave up more than 40 points eight times.  So if the universal off season program was meant to benefit the football team, it didn't work.
[/quote]

So you are saying it didnt help anybody last year but its going to be a great deal  for the upcoming seasons?
[/quote]

No, what I am saying is that why is there this indictment of a new AD's program before one contest has been played under his administration?  Look, I completely understand that a one size-fits all program is not good for any program....football, basketball or otherwise.  You opposed the "universal program" because it appears to favor one sport over the other.  That is, you can't prepare for a sport like basketball the completely the same as you do for a sport like football. Right?  But aren't you doing the very same thing when you indict Coach Price's program before it is even put in place?  How do you know what is involved in Coach Price's off season strength and conditioning program?  For that matter do you know what was involved in Coach Mangan's program.  It seems like you are employing the same mindset that you are indicting in your opposition of this program.

Also, I am sure that you are not saying that there is NO room for a strength and conditioning programs within basketball?  What about the strength to fight for a rebound?  A pretty good power game has led to some pretty successful programs and I am sure that the lifting does help with that.  And what about the conditioning part of it?  What happens to the 15 footer that turns into a 14' 6" footer because the young man has no strength or is not conditioned enough to maintain his form in the fourth quarter?

Now, if we are here this same time next year, the argument may have more bite (assuming that H-F's lack of success can be pointed to lack of time in skill development).

[stevenash]

I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach. 

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816165" timestamp="1278332896"]
I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach.  
[/quote]

What is your compelling evidence?

Second, how do we know that Coach Price has NOT solicited the input of all of the coaches...not only the basketball program, but baseball and soccer as well?

[Guest speechless]

no one is talkin bout what mangum did

we talkin bout what price is gonna do

and he gonna put all the kids in once class together and they gonna do what he wants all year long

and what he wants aint got much to do with makin jump shots

wut you think is better conditionin?  runnin up and down the floor playin or liftin weights?  which one of those gonna make sure that 15 footer dont fall short?

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816172" timestamp="1278336153"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816165#msg816165 date=1278332896]
I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach.  
[/quote]

What is your compelling evidence?

Second, how do we know that Coach Price has NOT solicited the input of all of the coaches...not only the basketball program, but baseball and soccer as well?
[/quote]  Compelling evidence would be the success/lack of success that basketball programs employing Universal Off Season vs the success/lack of success of those using alternative methods  not to mention the opinions of most of the highly successful basketball coaches in the area.  Of course, you already know this but believe that, through a battle of semantics, you will be document the virtues of UOS, so proceed if you wish.  Soliciting input is great but, if all you are doing is soliciting before you proceed with your plans, it is simply a symbolic rather than substantive effort.  Whenever you get done with your cross examination, I want you to explain to me why the basetkball coach is not better qualified to prescribe a practice/workout regimen for his players rather than the football coach?

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="speechless" post="816180" timestamp="1278338408"]
no one is talkin bout what mangum did

we talkin bout what price is gonna do

and he gonna put all the kids in once class together and they gonna do what he wants all year long

and what he wants aint got much to do with makin jump shots

wut you think is better conditionin?  runnin up and down the floor playin or liftin weights?  which one of those gonna make sure that 15 footer dont fall short?
[/quote]

Okay, lets talk about what Price is going to do?

First of all, let's look at the article. Again:

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/sports/local/pricing_the_culture_change_at_hamshire-fannett.html?c=y&page=1#storytop

What was he doing?  Talking with Principal Burris on how to what steps need to be taken to improve H-F in ALL sports!!!  What is one way to do that, have strength and conditioning in ALL boys and girls programs.

What does he want?  For all programs to succeed.

Is he an all encompassing ogre?  Not according to Coach Mahaffey!

Face it, y'all are jumping to all of these assumptions that the program is being implemented only to support the football to the detriment of the other sports simply because the strength and conditioning program is being implemented by a football coach.

[True Blue]

Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HF program and see if it workes for them.

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816190" timestamp="1278340989"]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=70692.msg816180#msg816180 date=1278338408]
no one is talkin bout what mangum did

we talkin bout what price is gonna do

and he gonna put all the kids in once class together and they gonna do what he wants all year long

and what he wants aint got much to do with makin jump shots

wut you think is better conditionin?  runnin up and down the floor playin or liftin weights?  which one of those gonna make sure that 15 footer dont fall short?
[/quote]

Okay, lets talk about what Price is going to do?

First of all, let's look at the article. Again:

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/sports/local/pricing_the_culture_change_at_hamshire-fannett.html?c=y&page=1#storytop

What was he doing?  Talking with Principal Burris on how to what steps need to be taken to improve H-F in ALL sports!!!  What is one way to do that, have strength and conditioning in ALL boys and girls programs.

What does he want?  For all programs to succeed.

Is he an all encompassing ogre?  Not according to Coach Mahaffey!

Face it, y'all are jumping to all of these assumptions that the program is being implemented only to support the football to the detriment of the other sports simply because the strength and conditioning program is being implemented by a football coach.
[/quote]You are good at asking questions but simply wont answer any.  I ask you again_  Why wouldnt the babsketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and place of weight training for his players than the football coach?  Have you EVER heard any AD say anything other than he wants to improve all sports?  I also heard alot about "change we can believe in".  Sure sounded good, didn't it?

[whsalum]

No one will buck the system at WOS when it comes to the football program  ;) ;)

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816181" timestamp="1278338611"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816172#msg816172 date=1278336153]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816165#msg816165 date=1278332896]
I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach.  
[/quote]

What is your compelling evidence?

Second, how do we know that Coach Price has NOT solicited the input of all of the coaches...not only the basketball program, but baseball and soccer as well?
[/quote]  Compelling evidence would be the success/lack of success that basketball programs employing Universal Off Season vs the success/lack of success of those using alternative methods  not to mention the opinions of most of the highly successful basketball coaches in the area.  Of course, you already know this but believe that, through a battle of semantics, you will be document the virtues of UOS, so proceed if you wish.  Soliciting input is great but, if all you are doing is soliciting before you proceed with your plans, it is simply a symbolic rather than substantive effort.  Whenever you get done with your cross examination, I want you to explain to me why the basetkball coach is not better qualified to prescribe a practice/workout regimen for his players rather than the football coach?
[/quote]

Success, that is why.  Read the article.  14 of 16 of the sports in Barbers Hill, the smallest school in District 19-4A, made the playoffs last year.  How many of H-F's team did that last year.  

I really don't get you, nash.  You first complain that those who oppose you are just calling you a whiner and you demand that someone points out the benefits of a Universal Offseason Program.  When I respect your views and do that I am now employing a battle of semantics?  I understand that I won't change your mind...and that is okay...message board would be boring if that were the case. And I understand that you will not obtain full satisfaction until the TEA sends down an edict that only basketball coaches can be ADs in the State of Texas.  

All I am saying is allow the guy an opportunity to employ a S & C program that, at the very least, kept the sports under his administration at a reasonable level....and not indict it simply because you have a fundamental opposition to such programs in general.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="True Blue" post="816194" timestamp="1278342067"]
Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HJ program and see if it workes for them.
[/quote]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816196#msg816196 date=1278352175]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816190#msg816190 date=1278340989]
[quote author=speechless link=topic=70692.msg816180#msg816180 date=1278338408]
no one is talkin bout what mangum did

we talkin bout what price is gonna do

and he gonna put all the kids in once class together and they gonna do what he wants all year long

and what he wants aint got much to do with makin jump shots

wut you think is better conditionin?  runnin up and down the floor playin or liftin weights?  which one of those gonna make sure that 15 footer dont fall short?
[/quote]

Okay, lets talk about what Price is going to do?

First of all, let's look at the article. Again:

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/sports/local/pricing_the_culture_change_at_hamshire-fannett.html?c=y&page=1#storytop

What was he doing?  Talking with Principal Burris on how to what steps need to be taken to improve H-F in ALL sports!!!  What is one way to do that, have strength and conditioning in ALL boys and girls programs.

What does he want?  For all programs to succeed.

Is he an all encompassing ogre?  Not according to Coach Mahaffey!

Face it, y'all are jumping to all of these assumptions that the program is being implemented only to support the football to the detriment of the other sports simply because the strength and conditioning program is being implemented by a football coach.
[/quote]You are good at asking questions but simply wont answer any.  I ask you again_  Why wouldnt the babsketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and place of weight training for his players than the football coach?  Have you EVER heard any AD say anything other than he wants to improve all sports?  I also heard alot about "change we can believe in".  Sure sounded good, didn't it?
[/quote]

Nash, when have I not answered your questions.  I have been trying for 3 hours to answer it but I was not able to get online here.  I have answered your questions, you just don't like the answers so you claim that I haven't.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="True Blue" post="816194" timestamp="1278342067"]
Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HJ program and see if it workes for them.
[/quote]

Frankly, True Blue, I don't care how Coach Wilkins proceeds...as long as it is legal and successful.  You see, my goal is complete dominance by WO-S.  I do wish to settle for one state trophy...I want Coach Hooks, Coach Wilkins and Coach Riojas, as well as Coach Ragsdale, Coach Foreman and all of the other coaches, all hoisting state championship trophies. I want WO-S to have the best one act play, best debaters, best FFA, metal works at any contest.  Total dominance is my wish.

As to just sitting back and seeing how the program works for H-F, that is what I intend to do and it should be what everyone else does.  If it does not show progress, I may very well join the chorus which opposes the program.  Until that time, I am not going to prematurely proclaim the death of a particular program.

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816205" timestamp="1278353584"]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg816194#msg816194 date=1278342067]
Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HJ program and see if it workes for them.
[/quote]

Frankly, True Blue, I don't care how Coach Watkins proceeds...as long as it is legal and successful.  You see, my goal is complete dominance by WO-S.  I do wish to settle for one state trophy...I want Coach Hooks, Coach Watkins and Coach Riojas, as well as Coach Ragsdale, Coach Foreman and all of the other coaches, all hoisting state championship trophies. I want WO-S to have the best one act play, best debaters, best FFA, metal works at any contest.  Total dominance is my wish.

As to just sitting back and seeing how the program works for H-F, that is what I intend to do and it should be what everyone else does.  If it does not show progress, I may very well join the chorus which opposes the program.  Until that time, I am not going to prematurely proclaim the death of a particular program.
[/quote]  I will ask again (and you DID NOT answer)  Why wouldn't the basketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and amount of weight lifting that his players should do?

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816206" timestamp="1278354240"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816205#msg816205 date=1278353584]
[quote author=True Blue link=topic=70692.msg816194#msg816194 date=1278342067]
Well WOSgrad you have nothing to worry about. I know YOUR new Basketball coach will not be using Universal weight lifting program over there. He will not have his basketball players, during their season, out on the football feild pulling tires or pussing the sleads. So just set back and watch the HJ program and see if it workes for them.
[/quote]

Frankly, True Blue, I don't care how Coach Watkins proceeds...as long as it is legal and successful.  You see, my goal is complete dominance by WO-S.  I do wish to settle for one state trophy...I want Coach Hooks, Coach Watkins and Coach Riojas, as well as Coach Ragsdale, Coach Foreman and all of the other coaches, all hoisting state championship trophies. I want WO-S to have the best one act play, best debaters, best FFA, metal works at any contest.  Total dominance is my wish.

As to just sitting back and seeing how the program works for H-F, that is what I intend to do and it should be what everyone else does.  If it does not show progress, I may very well join the chorus which opposes the program.  Until that time, I am not going to prematurely proclaim the death of a particular program.
[/quote]  I will ask again (and you DID NOT answer)  Why wouldn't the basketball coach be better qualified to determine the time and amount of weight lifting that his players should do?
[/quote]

Then what in the heck is this?
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816200#msg816200 date=1278352757]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816181#msg816181 date=1278338611]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816172#msg816172 date=1278336153]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816165#msg816165 date=1278332896]
I dont know Mr. Price and have no feelings toward him one way or the other.  What I do know is that there is fairly compelling evidence that the standard Universal Off Season is fairly counterproductive for the basketball program.  Additionally, personally, I believe that weight lifting plays an important part of a basketball players development.  At the same time, I KNOW that weight lifting efforts should be done  at a time and place to be determined by the BASKETBALL coach.  
[/quote]

What is your compelling evidence?

Second, how do we know that Coach Price has NOT solicited the input of all of the coaches...not only the basketball program, but baseball and soccer as well?
[/quote]  Compelling evidence would be the success/lack of success that basketball programs employing Universal Off Season vs the success/lack of success of those using alternative methods  not to mention the opinions of most of the highly successful basketball coaches in the area.  Of course, you already know this but believe that, through a battle of semantics, you will be document the virtues of UOS, so proceed if you wish.  Soliciting input is great but, if all you are doing is soliciting before you proceed with your plans, it is simply a symbolic rather than substantive effort.  Whenever you get done with your cross examination, I want you to explain to me why the basetkball coach is not better qualified to prescribe a practice/workout regimen for his players rather than the football coach?
[/quote]

Success, that is why.  Read the article.  14 of 16 of the sports in Barbers Hill, the smallest school in District 19-4A, made the playoffs last year.  How many of H-F's team did that last year.  

I really don't get you, nash.  You first complain that those who oppose you are just calling you a whiner and you demand that someone points out the benefits of a Universal Offseason Program.  When I respect your views and do that I am now employing a battle of semantics?  I understand that I won't change your mind...and that is okay...message board would be boring if that were the case. And I understand that you will not obtain full satisfaction until the TEA sends down an edict that only basketball coaches can be ADs in the State of Texas.  

All I am saying is allow the guy an opportunity to employ a S & C program that, at the very least, kept the sports under his administration at a reasonable level....and not indict it simply because you have a fundamental opposition to such programs in general.
[/quote]

Again, simply ignoring my answers because you don't care for them doesn't mean I am not answering your questions.

[stevenash]

Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is- Barbers Hill teams made the playoffs in 14 of 16 sports last year.  Thank you.  It was my small minded thinking that the really great basketball programs are the ones that should be the models.  By the way, where do you have to finish these days in order to make the playoffs?

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816212" timestamp="1278357010"]
Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is-
[/quote]

In Hamshire, yes that is the case.

Oh, and in answer to your question (because far be it from me to want to incur your wrath for not answering one of your questions)-too many make the playoffs for my blood. I think they had it right when 2 went from each district.  But. be that as it may, for most schools a playoff berth is still a measure of success.  And in fact, the failure to make the playoffs given the number of opportunities is an extreme failure.

Now my turn for a question.  Why do you continue to have your fundamental opposition to Universal Offseason Programs in general cause you to believe that Coach Price's C&S program, which you do not know what it will entail, will doom the boy basketball program at Hamshire-Fannett?

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816220" timestamp="1278358624"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816212#msg816212 date=1278357010]
Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is-
[/quote]

In Hamshire, yes that is the case.

Oh, and in answer to your question (because far be it from me to want to incur your wrath for not answering one of your questions)-too many make the playoffs for my blood. I think they had it right when 2 went from each district.  But. be that as it may, for most schools a playoff berth is still a measure of success.  And in fact, the failure to make the playoffs given the number of opportunities is an extreme failure.

Now my turn for a question.  Why do you continue to have your fundamental opposition to Universal Offseason Programs in general cause you to believe that Coach Price's C&S program, which you do not know what it will entail, will doom the boy basketball program at Hamshire-Fannett?
[/quote]  In case you are unaware, I DID NOT start this thread but happen to believe in the theory that Universal Off Season is counterproductive when it comes to basketball.  It has nothing to do with coach price (as previously noted).  You will never convince me that a basketball coach is less qualified than the football coach to determine when and where weight training should take place for basketball players.  AS I said in an earlier post, when it comes down to the last few seconds of a playoff game and my player has the ball, the only thing that interests me is whether or not he can make the shot.  If the skill isnt there, bigger, stronger, faster all become irrelevant.  PLease convince me I am wrong about this.  And while you are in the convincing "mode", convince me that a majority of consistently good basketball programs uses Universal Off Season for the basketball team.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816235" timestamp="1278361608"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816220#msg816220 date=1278358624]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816212#msg816212 date=1278357010]
Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is-
[/quote]

In Hamshire, yes that is the case.

Oh, and in answer to your question (because far be it from me to want to incur your wrath for not answering one of your questions)-too many make the playoffs for my blood. I think they had it right when 2 went from each district.  But. be that as it may, for most schools a playoff berth is still a measure of success.  And in fact, the failure to make the playoffs given the number of opportunities is an extreme failure.

Now my turn for a question.  Why do you continue to have your fundamental opposition to Universal Offseason Programs in general cause you to believe that Coach Price's C&S program, which you do not know what it will entail, will doom the boy basketball program at Hamshire-Fannett?
[/quote]  In case you are unaware, I DID NOT start this thread but happen to believe in the theory that Universal Off Season is counterproductive when it comes to basketball.  It has nothing to do with coach price (as previously noted).  You will never convince me that a basketball coach is less qualified than the football coach to determine when and where weight training should take place for basketball players.  AS I said in an earlier post, when it comes down to the last few seconds of a playoff game and my player has the ball, the only thing that interests me is whether or not he can make the shot.  If the skill isnt there, bigger, stronger, faster all become irrelevant.  PLease convince me I am wrong about this.  And while you are in the convincing "mode", convince me that a majority of consistently good basketball programs uses Universal Off Season for the basketball team.
[/quote]

I have long since endeavoring to convince you of anything, nash.  I would like you to ask the basketball minds, since you have evidently picked their brain as to whether they believe basketball skill is the end all be all as you have seemed to have intimated in your last post and that all other matters as you put it are "irrelevant."  And Really, I don't know enough about who does what as far as weight training to be able to answer your question as to who is successful with it or who is not.

[Bucof2010]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816133" timestamp="1278299022"]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg816129#msg816129 date=1278297074]
Lol Idk a whole lot about 1-a but you take off EC and Anahuac of the past few years you don't have much on that list

I know I know Buna has accomplished more than any two of those teams but we're out of the stone age now
[/quote]

And one would also need to ask what has been accomplished at EC after departure of Tremain Thomas
[/quote]

Look what we were doing before and while he was here geez two down years and we get thrown under the bus

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816237" timestamp="1278362295"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816235#msg816235 date=1278361608]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816220#msg816220 date=1278358624]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816212#msg816212 date=1278357010]
Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is-
[/quote]

In Hamshire, yes that is the case.

Oh, and in answer to your question (because far be it from me to want to incur your wrath for not answering one of your questions)-too many make the playoffs for my blood. I think they had it right when 2 went from each district.  But. be that as it may, for most schools a playoff berth is still a measure of success.  And in fact, the failure to make the playoffs given the number of opportunities is an extreme failure.

Now my turn for a question.  Why do you continue to have your fundamental opposition to Universal Offseason Programs in general cause you to believe that Coach Price's C&S program, which you do not know what it will entail, will doom the boy basketball program at Hamshire-Fannett?
[/quote]  In case you are unaware, I DID NOT start this thread but happen to believe in the theory that Universal Off Season is counterproductive when it comes to basketball.  It has nothing to do with coach price (as previously noted).  You will never convince me that a basketball coach is less qualified than the football coach to determine when and where weight training should take place for basketball players.  AS I said in an earlier post, when it comes down to the last few seconds of a playoff game and my player has the ball, the only thing that interests me is whether or not he can make the shot.  If the skill isnt there, bigger, stronger, faster all become irrelevant.  PLease convince me I am wrong about this.  And while you are in the convincing "mode", convince me that a majority of consistently good basketball programs uses Universal Off Season for the basketball team.
[/quote]

I have long since endeavoring to convince you of anything, nash.  I would like you to ask the basketball minds, since you have evidently picked their brain as to whether they believe basketball skill is the end all be all as you have seemed to have intimated in your last post and that all other matters as you put it are "irrelevant."  And Really, I don't know enough about who does what as far as weight training to be able to answer your question as to who is successful with it or who is not.
[/quote]  I do know that the great majority of highly successful basketball programs do not employ Universal Off Season because, like it or not, it does not benefit the basketball players like it does  the  football players.  I t ried another analogy earlier but apparently someone deleted it.  Go back a few years when HJ had Ryan Donahoe and WOS had UT Signee and Seattle Seahawk Earl Thomas.Each time they played each other,  I think everyone knows who was b igger, stronger, and faster.(and it certainly benefitted Earl a lot)  I also think everyone knows who was the better basketball player.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="Bucof2010" post="816241" timestamp="1278363600"]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816133#msg816133 date=1278299022]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg816129#msg816129 date=1278297074]
Lol Idk a whole lot about 1-a but you take off EC and Anahuac of the past few years you don't have much on that list

I know I know Buna has accomplished more than any two of those teams but we're out of the stone age now
[/quote]

And one would also need to ask what has been accomplished at EC after departure of Tremain Thomas
[/quote]

Look what we were doing before and while he was here geez two down years and we get thrown under the bus
[/quote]

Even allies are expendable in Mr. Nash's quest for being right.

[stevenash]

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="816249" timestamp="1278365578"]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg816241#msg816241 date=1278363600]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816133#msg816133 date=1278299022]
[quote author=Bucof2010 link=topic=70692.msg816129#msg816129 date=1278297074]
Lol Idk a whole lot about 1-a but you take off EC and Anahuac of the past few years you don't have much on that list

I know I know Buna has accomplished more than any two of those teams but we're out of the stone age now
[/quote]

And one would also need to ask what has been accomplished at EC after departure of Tremain Thomas
[/quote]

Look what we were doing before and while he was here geez two down years and we get thrown under the bus
[/quote]

Even allies are expendable in Mr. Nash's quest for being right.
[/quote]  Boy you certainly are right there.  Implying that EC has not done as well without Thomas is truly a terrible and inaccurate(?) thing to say.  I guess there are a lot of us who BELIEVE we are right.  It is obvious that this is NOT an EXCLUSIVE province of mine.  Do I need to also apologize to Mr. Thomas at this point?

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="stevenash" post="816246" timestamp="1278364773"]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816237#msg816237 date=1278362295]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816235#msg816235 date=1278361608]
[quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=70692.msg816220#msg816220 date=1278358624]
[quote author=stevenash link=topic=70692.msg816212#msg816212 date=1278357010]
Excuse me, now I think I understand you.  Let me see if I have it right.  The reason that a basketball program is better served with Universal Off Season than a basketball coach supervising and determining how and when to lift is-
[/quote]

In Hamshire, yes that is the case.

Oh, and in answer to your question (because far be it from me to want to incur your wrath for not answering one of your questions)-too many make the playoffs for my blood. I think they had it right when 2 went from each district.  But. be that as it may, for most schools a playoff berth is still a measure of success.  And in fact, the failure to make the playoffs given the number of opportunities is an extreme failure.

Now my turn for a question.  Why do you continue to have your fundamental opposition to Universal Offseason Programs in general cause you to believe that Coach Price's C&S program, which you do not know what it will entail, will doom the boy basketball program at Hamshire-Fannett?
[/quote]  In case you are unaware, I DID NOT start this thread but happen to believe in the theory that Universal Off Season is counterproductive when it comes to basketball.  It has nothing to do with coach price (as previously noted).  You will never convince me that a basketball coach is less qualified than the football coach to determine when and where weight training should take place for basketball players.  AS I said in an earlier post, when it comes down to the last few seconds of a playoff game and my player has the ball, the only thing that interests me is whether or not he can make the shot.  If the skill isnt there, bigger, stronger, faster all become irrelevant.  PLease convince me I am wrong about this.  And while you are in the convincing "mode", convince me that a majority of consistently good basketball programs uses Universal Off Season for the basketball team.
[/quote]

I have long since endeavoring to convince you of anything, nash.  I would like you to ask the basketball minds, since you have evidently picked their brain as to whether they believe basketball skill is the end all be all as you have seemed to have intimated in your last post and that all other matters as you put it are "irrelevant."  And Really, I don't know enough about who does what as far as weight training to be able to answer your question as to who is successful with it or who is not.
[/quote]  I do know that the great majority of highly successful basketball programs do not employ Universal Off Season because, like it or not, it does not benefit the basketball players like it does  the  football players.  I tried another analogy earlier but apparently someone deleted it.  Go back a few years when HJ had Ryan Donahoe and WOS had UT Signee and Seattle Seahawk Earl Thomas.Each time they played each other,  I think everyone knows who was bigger, stronger, and faster.(and it certainly benefitted Earl a lot)  I also think everyone knows who was the better basketball player.
[/quote]

Well, your analogy fails for this topic because it fails to account for an element that you pointed out, that being that Ryan was simply a more talented player than Earl.  What does that have to do with their preparation and whether a "universal" offseason program helps?  I'd submit to you that without Earl being as fast and strong as he was, he would have had no shot against Ryan.  

Be that as it may, in this case, H-F has no Ryan Donahoes that we know of.  So why not let Coach Price implement a program that may improve them physically while they work on their respective basketball games?

[AggiesAreWe]

Question, is Silsbee considered a successful basketball program? I know that we have no state titles, but are we considered a successful basketball program?

Just curious.

[WOSgrad]

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="816261" timestamp="1278368125"]
Question, is Silsbee considered a successful basketball program? I know that we have no state titles, but are we considered a successful basketball program?

Just curious.
[/quote]

Of course, not, because Silsbee does use a universal offseason program right, AAW?  So by definition they cannot be successful.