POLL - Acceptable or Not

[Guest Sports Reporter]

You guys and girls can throw stones all you want.  In my opinion, let me preface, Crush had the superior talent last year over the other GT Gold team, Shockers.  Which one qualified?  Now you want to get into why that happened?

[Guest Sports Reporter]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm really sorry that we made everyone so upset but WE AS A TEAM made this decision not the parents...We are old enough to know that us making this team is going to really help the nederland softball program for future years.

Good luck with all that!

I posted something recently in which I unintentionally irritated some people concerning giving credit to the players. That is a double edged sword. Players, particularly those who have done well for themselves, in return should give credit to their coaches. Whether you intended it or not, your statements reek of arrogance. Appears to be a slap in the face to every former coach you have ever had. If you feel like your former coaches did not get you up to your highest potential, then why didn't your make the change years ago. Obviously it wasn't immaturity that kept you from making that decision, based on your comments that "we are old enough to know..."  If your excuse WAS immaturity, then how can you ask a bunch of other 15-18 year olds to make a decision that may affect their future? I pity the coach that has to move in and coach a group of kids that are "old enough to know..." Although it appears coaching is not needed.

Mc, really don't know why you are chastising a player who made her own decision and does not even play in your organization.  ???

[osue200]

First of all. None of you really know why, how or what lead to this decision. You just think you know. I do understand that the timing of this is bad. Remember these girls just finished high school ball Friday. In a nut shell they decided to keep the HIGH SCHOOL team together. Also 10 of the 14 girls were not on any summer team. You may not agree but It's pretty impressive to see a high school team pull together like this and want to continue to play in the summer.

[Tiger Cat]

Mc, really don't know why you are chastising a player who made her own decision and does not even play in your organization.   ???

This thread was started for opinions on a situation, regardless of which organization you are associated with. Correct?

[Guest Sports Reporter]

Yes it was opinions that were requested. The player, Dogs 0917 gave her opinion and was chastised for it.  I gave my opinion also and was lambasted by youknow and bigcat for it. 

Now when we start giving opinions about others opinions is where this thin skinned board breaks down.

[Tiger Cat]

Yes it was opinions that were requested. The player, Dogs 0917 gave her opinion and was chastised for it.  I gave my opinion also and was lambasted by youknow and bigcat for it. 

Now when we start giving opinions about others opinions is where this thin skinned board breaks down.

I don't agree that Dogs 0917 was chastised for her opinion. Other people have differing opinions, its expected when you sign on to a thread about opinions.

[youknow]

I did not chastize Dogs 0917 either. I realize this was a hard choice for her. I have no problem with opinions, however I think you do unless they agree with you. Lamblasted..I don't think so. I gave my opinion and repeated quite a few facts that I know are TRUTHFUL.  Thin skinned--I will NEVER be!!!

[3ABirdMan]

Parents and players should do what is right for the family.  Some players strive to go to college, some don't. Some strive for higher levels of competition and for higher levels of play. 

If a player and their family are not getting their needs met, BEFORE they sign an ASA roster or any other roster and their needs are not getting met then they should move on.  This is not 12U we are talking here, it's levels of committment.  I have also heard that the team they left was not committed to putting the best 9 on the field when it mattered.

I make it a point at the beginning of every year (Aug - July) to try to make sure the players and parents who were selected from the tryouts to play on my team KNOW that my goal is college scholarships - not trophies, not championships, not winning at all costs.

I don't have a problem at all with a player leaving whose needs are not met, but that's why I TRY to make sure they know my goals.  I've had players leave before, and will have players leave again.  My issue is when there IS already a roster in place, as you stated here.  I lost 6 players in January, and THANK GOD I asked who was and who was NOT planning on coming back, or I would have met LAST WEEK with a 7-player roster (some people don't whisper very quietly, but then, asking players AT PRACTRICE to go play for another team has a way of getting to be public knowledge as well). And I also agree - It's an issue of committment - committment to a team, committment to your teammates, committment to your coaches, committment to honor a decision.  I've never cut a kid during the season, and don't plan on doing it - ever, and ESPECIALLY so I can replace them with better talent!  If I ask a player and their family for a 12-month committment, I hold myself to same standard, that being to honor it as well, regardless of skill or talent.  Again, I have had kids whose priorities change, and after discussing our options, I've parted ways with more than one player and family.  I'm not saying it CAN'T happen!  But it should be something both parties agree to, or at least agree to disagree.  DISCUSSION IS THE KEY!

[twilyms]

I do feel for you Birdman I didn't say it was right ,but these kids wanted to do this and others wanted to be apart of it . There is a special bond between some players that cannot be matched and that is were this all came about . I can promise you I had no part what so ever  :-\

When our player told us she was leaving, it wasn't because she wanted to. It was because she felt pressured to, for fear of being shunned. This was not a decision she felt confident nor excited about. I've heard the people who are starting this little team sit on the sidelines and make fun of the girls on our team, including the girl who is now being pressured to go play with them.  The fact of the matter is, she has aspirations of playing college ball and she is aware that this will hurt her chances. She has already asked if it is okay for her to come back when she is abandoned in a few months. This team is forming because the interests of certain girls were not thought to be put at the forefront, yet they are now doing this to all the younger girls they are recruiting. Everyone knows you don't get recruited from high school ball, you get recruited from your select team. So the idea of building up a high school program will only serve the selfish elitist attitudes of a precious few and in know way help the girls that really want to continue their careers into college.

[Mc]

........Where will these younger girls play in the fall when half of their "new team" is off at college? Is there enough commitment from the incoming underclassmen to fill the roster again?

And then to think about the girls left on the ship after their "teammates" bailed on their commitments...

BINGO!  Not to mention the after effects it will have on players if this "project" fails. Will area travel coaches ever be willing to take a chance on selecting those underclass players in the future? Do the younger select teams avoid recruiting Ned players?

You're right SS, none of these players currently play for our organization but one of them did play for me for quite awhile. So, if one is needed, I do have a legitimate right to have an opinion on this issue simply because I continue to follow my former players in hopes of seeing them succeed. So yes, I have my concerns and they may be unfounded. Although it is just precious to hear a 17 or 18 year old say "We are old enough to know .." when referring to a bunch of other teenagers, as a parent, I would like to see the "plan" before I placed my eggs in that basket. If my daughter were an underclassman in a similar situation, I would tend to believe that the Senior players were looking for an easy summer of ball.

There is still enough time to get into some exposure tournaments and even the ASA Gold qualifier in San Antonio, but time is quickly ticking down on those. The IFA Nationals in Beaumont this summer may not be a possiblility if any of these girls were already on an IFA roster that was completed in the fall.

[HillGuy]

.....This team is forming because the interests of certain girls were not thought to be put at the forefront, yet they are now doing this to all the younger girls they are recruiting. Everyone knows you don't get recruited from high school ball, you get recruited from your select team. So the idea of building up a high school program will only serve the selfish elitist attitudes of a precious few and in know way help the girls that really want to continue their careers into college.

I don't have any stake in this at all, but interested.  Have to say this is the first thing I thought of when I heard of this.  Forming a team of players from the same high school is a good way to have a better HS team next year, but does very little to help gain exposure and experience for the players who will move to the next level.

[DAMan]

Hillguy

Have to say this is the first thing I thought of when I heard of this.  Forming a team of players from the same high school is a good way to have a better HS team next year, but does very little to help gain exposure and experience for the players who will move to the next level.

It also puts them in the limelight.  One HS shows at pratices taking part,

one HS uniform shows up, one piece of school equipment is found, then these

young ladies could be in violations of UIL/TASO rules and jeopardize their

futures.  You never know who is watching.

[HillGuy]

Stay off school property for practices, including batting practice and tell HS to coach not to come anywhere near practice and sit along the outfield fence in games (if come at all) and should be no problem.  DaMan right though, got to be careful.

[3ABirdMan]

When players move to different teams it just opens a spot for another one to move in.

I've noticed the key to winning games in softball is the pitcher. I would make an aggreement between the summer teams that pitchers are protected if they are on a roster.

What I am learning is there is NO mutual agreement between anybody anymore.  Committment is a word of the past. Some of us know how to honor a 'gentleman's agreement', but many do not.

I will say this, though - I AM proud to be a part of CRUSH if for no other reason than we, as an organization, can discuss issues that affect us, and come to agreements without cutting each others throats.  We may not all agree, but we DO work together for the good of the players who are on our rosters.

[Mc]

• The coach of this new team is going to start selecting who will be on Nederland Varsity? If you are playing the best 9, as was previously stated, and 3 or 4 of those girls are seniors that will never play HS ball again, how again will that benefit Nederland HS for next season?
  
• In HS ball the coach can DEMAND when players practice and play. Several of these kids never played select ball because they did not want to make the commitment to the same stringent year round demands. How has that changed? How will animosities affect the HS team next year when players that did not attend practices or tournaments end up as a HS starter?
  
• 2nd place in state last year and a successful season this year. Now abandoning that successful philosophy and beginning with an unproven plan?
  

[blt22]

OK! I have read enough, so here goes my opinion.  

I believe you must do what is best for you and your TEAM. That takes alot of thought into it. If this is the fall, no problem discuss everything with your coach and he/she will understand for whatever the reason is.

Now to leave your team at the end of May, beginning of travel ball is irresponsible-selfishness. The word Team includes 12 - 16 players on the roster, which has been your summer family for a couple of years. What about the younger kids on the team?? Wasn't this going to be an important summer for them. If you pull 1 - 4 players (starters) off this team, what happens to those players you are showcasing this year. The ones leaving have already committed/signed so they are not worried any longer, they have already been showcased. No teamwork/committment. What are we teaching kids now days!!!! Surely there was some type of parent involvement. But.................

[CraigS]

How come every time something that involves questionable character the same ones are involved? I get hammered for speaking truths, and not beating around the bush........everyone wants to say I have an agenda, or this or that..........I'm not always right......but I am a pretty good judge of character.........and I've warned people about their involvements!

I lost 6 before before nationals last year, jumped through hoops trying to salvage the season for the rest of the players that did honor their commitments for the ENTIRE season. It not only put the end of our season in question.........it could have cost us our team, due to the uncertainess of us being able to find enough quality players to play the schedule we chose to play. As it turned out we became stronger and MORE talented......keep your heads up Crush fans, there is always hope.

I've always heard that these people are in it for THE kids.........thruth is THEir kids.........PEROID........doesn't matter who it hurts or who gets hosed............I feel sorry for the underclassmen that are going to this team due to feeling the have to.........

This is a sad day for softball.......I truly feel for the girls and coaches of any team that will be losing players.......BUT this doesn't surprise me.

Maybe now my Crush friends and I can get back to the relationship we once had.......

[hawkdad]

My opinion on this matter is pretty much the same as most I have read. My take on the players--If what you are doing is so right then why not tell the coach earlier. Why not give him the opportunity to replace you? Contrary to the beliefs of some there are no players that can't be replaced, all you need is the time to do it. Why not give him that time. I know if the tables had been turned on the players doing this that the post would be outrageous by certain posters on here. Now, my biggest concern is for the younger girls who are obviously being enfluenced by older girls that already have their road paved for them. Someone needs to talk to these younger girls and let them know how important these years are for them to be in the right place and ensure they have the same opportunities the older girls have already taken advantage of. I know some of the Nederland girls and coached them with Mc and sure hate to see this happen to them. While some people will present this as a good thing can they actually say the younger kids are going to really benefit from this. They can't guarantee them that because none of this is proven!! But the organization the older girls came from is proven. Just ask them if they have scholorships!!!

[AggiesAreWe]

Another softball drama at it's best. :

I do not know how these "select" softball teams are formed and run, but jumping ship mid season or right at the beginning of season shows lack of respect and character.

All it shows is that it's "all about me" and screw everyone else.

[Old Eagle #70]

Where are the answers to all of these questions everyone has asked? No one from the new team is stepping up to answer. The younger kids seem to be getting used for a few old team mates, (Ex Nederland Girls already in college), to play ball for the summer. Part of this is a guarantee for the seniors to come back and play next summer. The younger players feel pressure to play on the new team because they are loyal to each other; more loyal to each other than to their summer teams and coaches.

The young ladies that are starting this team are an amazing group of young ladies. I have truly enjoyed watching them play this season. I personally like each one of them and think they have something to contribute to younger players. The level of intensity that the entire Nederland team played at, IMO, was unmatched throughout the district. These ladies were on fire. They couldn’t get enough. I know it was the time of their life. I know they don’t want it to end. It’s hard to leave this level of play and go back to their summer teams. So I can understand why they want to go through with the formation of this team.

I don’t think the girls have total selfish intent, but I also don’t think the idea was completely thought out. It was more of, Hey we love playing together and we can’t get this level of intensity from our summer teams so lets continue by forming this new team.

Again many of you have questions that are unanswered? These are questions that were thought of or brought up after the fact. I don’t think anyone wants to honestly answer those questions because it would reveal to the younger players that this isn’t at all about building a stronger Nederland HS Softball team. That just sounds good and it hooks you in. I don’t think the founders even thought about how the younger girls will be exposed and developed. They just want to play at the same level they have been for the past few weeks. So I understand. I don’t agree with the way this all went down but I do understand. This idea could be beneficial to the HS program and still expose players for college if it had been planned and thought out, but I’m afraid before long the wheels will fall off the wagon and their will be distention among the teammates. I hope not. Good Luck!

[adminbaberuth]

Someone explain how summer softball works.

With all the schools in the area couldn't you have a league, have a tryout, then draft your players?

[twilyms]

Just to let everyone know, our pitcher who was going to leave has had a change of heart. After thinking it over for a couple of days, and reading the posts on this board, she and her family have come to realize that our team is the right place for her to be. I personally believe she has made a wise choice for her softball future.

[WeedBegone]

How come every time something that involves questionable character the same ones are involved? I get hammered for speaking truths, and not beating around the bush........everyone wants to say I have an agenda, or this or that..........I'm not always right......but I am a pretty good judge of character.........and I've warned people about their involvements!

I lost 6 before before nationals last year, jumped through hoops trying to salvage the season for the rest of the players that did honor their commitments for the ENTIRE season. It not only put the end of our season in question.........it could have cost us our team, due to the uncertainess of us being able to find enough quality players to play the schedule we chose to play. As it turned out we became stronger and MORE talented......keep your heads up Crush fans, there is always hope.

I've always heard that these people are in it for THE kids.........thruth is THEir kids.........PEROID........doesn't matter who it hurts or who gets hosed............I feel sorry for the underclassmen that are going to this team due to feeling the have to.........

This is a sad day for softball.......I truly feel for the girls and coaches of any team that will be losing players.......BUT this doesn't surprise me.

Maybe now my Crush friends and I can get back to the relationship we once had.......

I believe this is a good post.  From a Rowdie perspective, Coach Brocato (Caesar) and the other coaches looked at a players leaving as an opportunity to upgrade.  Usually when a player leaves for greener grass, there are some underlying reasons for that decision.  If they are not happy, they are also not committed at that time.  We lost a couple of talented players to new team under construction and eventually got them back.  To get back on the team, they had to earn their acceptance and in a round about way, re-committ themselves and work their way back into the line up.  In hindsight, Rowdie recovered quite well and became much more competitive.  If the organization keeps its focus on what it has on the roster, sees every availability as an opportunity to upgrade, then things will work out. 

Caution to players that tend to team hop:  One of our inside philosophies was that if a player hopped to too many teams, we were not sure we wanted to take the risk.  Attitude is as important as talent.  Coaches can do lots to improve the skills of a player with a good attitude. 

Geeze, I am starting to miss lots of this.  But then again,  fresh dead fish smell lots better than a dug-out at the end of a hot day in July - August.

[ccbetr.5]

If these players were so "unhappy" playing for the team or teams they played for then why go back again year after year and tryout for the same team or teams?  I understand the "glory" of wanting to keep your successful highschool teammates together, but if you have PRIOR commitments to other teams then that needs to be fulfilled first.  When the season ends then follow your dreams and more power to you. It will make you a better person in the long run.

I think the players should have had just a little respect for the coaches that helped get them their scholarships.

I do know one coach that truly loves ALL of his GIRLS and will do anything to better their future in college and softball.  He has always been very PROUD of ALL of his girls.  It hurts me to see this kind of thing happen to the one person who literally EATS, SLEEPS and BREATHS SOFTBALL.  He is all about the KIDS.  He should have had the decency of at least a phone call or better yet a meeting, not hearing it through gossip.

I wish them all the best of luck.

[softball maw-maw]

The only thing I think is that if my daughter was to tell me she wanted to go to another team,whether it be her choice or by being asked by another coach.I strongly believe in commitment.My girl would have to play the season out before moving on to another team.I do not agree with girls team hopping at all,nor coaches recruiting girls while they are playing ball summer season/fall season.They do have breaks in between seasons to talk to them about going elsewhere.