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Jim Bouton forms league to play with 19th Century rules Jim Bouton, right, chairman and CEO of the Vintage Base Ball Federation (VBBF), chat with federation team players Matt "Crazy Legs" March, left, of the Bristol Barnstormers from Bristol, Conn., and David "Fleetwood" Chambers of the Pittsfield Hillies from Pittsfield, Mass., at a press conference in New York, Thursday August, 24, 2006. Bouton, a former Yankee pitcher, announced plans to increase the number of teams playing vintage Baseball using 19th century rules and manners, with an invitation to amateur Baseball and softball teams to join the VBBF Deadball era not dead (by RONALD BLUM, AP Baseball Writer) NEW YORK (AP) -- Talk about turning back the clock. Former Major League pitcher Jim Bouton announced Thursday the launch of a league that will play by 19th century rules: The Vintage Base Ball Federation. Yup, back then Baseball was two words. It will be six balls for a walk, and a foul ball won't count as a strike -- unless it's caught, in which case the batter will be out. A foul ball caught on a bounce counts for an out, and a hit batter is only a ball, with no base awarded. Gloves will be tiny, bats will be thick and the ball -- that's right, one ball will be used per game unless it falls apart or is lost -- will be dead. There aren't any pitcher's mounds, and there's no such thing as a balk on pickoff attempts. In a mixture of sport and theater, umpires must be addressed as "sir." Fans -- called "cranks" -- will be encouraged to wear period costumes, so ladies get out those flowered hats and gentlemen doff your straw boaters. Chris Moran, who plays for the Hartford Senators, said fans look at these games the same way as the spectators viewed old-time ballplayers in the movie Field of Dreams. "Where did these guys come from?" he said was the reaction. Teams will play about a dozen games during the season. A six-team, double-elimination Vintage World Series is planned for Aug. 15-19 next summer at a site that hasn't been determined. "The game the way it was meant to be played," Bouton said during a news conference at Delmonico's, a restaurant that opened in 1836. "No batting gloves, helmets, wristbands, elbow pads, shin guards, sunglasses. No arguing with the umpire. No stepping out of the batter's box. No charging the pitcher or posing at home plate. No curtain-calling, chest-thumping or high-fiving. Just Baseball." There will be some allowances for modern times, such as protective gear inside uniforms for catchers and lining under the short-billed caps when players bat. There will be relief pitchers, and uniforms will have polyester, because flannel isn't durable enough. "A night game is not forbidden, even though it's pushing the envelope," said Greg Martin, the VBBF vice president and owner of a company that produces vintage gear. While the Hartford Senators have a team spittoon, gambling will be prohibited -- 19th century Baseball was marked by alleged fixed games. "The 1880s and '90s were characterized by very rough play and ill-mannered conduct toward umpires and opponents and spectators," said John Thorn, a board member who serves on the 19th Century research committee of the Society for American Baseball Research. Wearing a brown derby and a vest, Bouton said Vintage Base Ball already was played by 225 teams in 32 states. In 2004, ESPN Classic televised a vintage game between the Hartford Senators and the Pittsfield Hillies at Wahconah Park. The rules will be a mixture of those in use from 1860-90, with an emphasis on the 1880s. The ball will have seams in the lemon-peel style, which was replaced by the current seam pattern designed by Albert Spalding, adopted by the major leagues in 1877. Pitching will be overhand, and games will average about 2 hours, 15 minutes. Before each plate appearance, a batter will declare his "desired strike zone preference" -- belt to knee or belt to armpits. If the umpire misses a call because his view is blocked, a team captain can ask for a "gentleman's ruling," in which players involved in the play are to truthfully say what occurred. If a dispute remains, the umpire may ask the cranks for their opinion. "I'm intrigued by the concept of people playing Baseball for fun," said former Baseball commissioner Fay Vincent, a member of the VBBF board. "Someone said this will be an effort where the strike will be something that goes over the plate and doesn't involve a labor dispute." Because catcher's gloves are tiny and don't have much padding, most pitchers throw about 70 mph to avoid passed balls. "The pitching game is less a power game and it's more a skill game: changing speeds, moving the ball around, deception," Bouton said. It's certainly different than 21st century Baseball. "What irks me about the modern game is the enlarging ballplayers and shrinking ballparks," Thorn said. "A home run at one point in Baseball's history actually involved a run -- running around the bases. There weren't very many home runs hit out of the park where you could stand at home plate, watch the thing soaring over the fence, cast a menacing glance at the opposing dugout and then take your time around the bases." On the Net:

I guess I do not understand this kind of talk. #1 it was the 1st scrimmage...a controlled scrimmage at that #2 Silsbee is supposed to be good this year. Is Silsbee not supposed to beat Nederland on occassion?

Gilmer 49 Jasper 47 2004 Championship Game. You know the story. Gilmer up big in first half. Jasper pulls within 2. Goes for two point conversion. Close play (he was in) ruled down. Gilmer Wins. Talk about heartbreaking.

LOL- i hated 'em which is why I loved wrestling at the time. I also hated the Horsemen, loved Sting. I hated the nWo but loved anybody who would stand up to them. The Horsemen back in the 80's and early 90's were the best with Flair, Tully, Arn, Ole, Luger, Windham. I also liked Magnum TA and Nikita Koloff (remember them?) To me, Hogan was so much more fun as a bad guy because that guy can talk some trash.

There are like 6 threads that say Jody.......... I can't keep up with them all, so lay it on me in this one....... I figured since BH played their 2nd string all evening it would give WOS something to talk about..... Hey kicker, I got my paddle ready....and Bud Light........ Let's bring Griff so we can SCUBA dive as well. I have a fesh tank of Nitrogen that should make his trip memorable........ OK, got ot run. Going on my 10th year of following WOS football.

Crush Coach there is no sense in trying to talk to them..they believe what there gonna believe..Just wait a few weeks and time will tell...

:shock: Man EAGLETOWN you were right. It is pretty rough over here. Not much we can say after that whippin though. Maybe we can talk some trash to Lumberton while the wounds heal. HA HA. Were going to be alright.

The WOS offense looked about what I expected, they won't be far off from last year. Kicker, I don't know what defense you were watching but WOS' defense persued better than they did at anytime last year. Last year they never had any goal line stands, teams just ran up the gut and scored. Last night's stand was very encourageing. As far as the TD run, Coach T was disappointed on the missed tackles, but he also appaulogized to players telling them he put them in a bad call. As for the kicking game, we need one. However, I think help is on the way. the JV kicker from last year thought he was going to be home schooled this year and didn't come out this summer. I talked to him after the game and he told me that is NOT going to be home schooled and he is enrolling Monday and would talk to the coaches about coming back out. He supposedly went to a kicking camp at UT this summer. He was very good at the end of the year last year. As for BH, they are going to have to have improve a whole bunch to compete in 4A. I hope the players that missed the game have big impact on their team because they're going to need them.

I think last night will be good armor to keep anyone from BH from getting under our skin anymore. We were unsure, considering all the praise we'd heard about them (mostly from BH posters). But that was sort of embarrassing last night. Truth be told, all of the lead-up ribbing helped make last night fun. If I had never met Jody here, I don't know if I even would have gone to a scrimmage against Barber's Hill. All the talk gave the game some meaning at least. Otherwise it would have been like beating Lumberton (honestly). And you know, it sort of was.

Well, here it IS!!!! The "smack talk" forum. Ive taken it upon myself to make some general rules. First of all, lets keep it clean. Remember this is a PUBLIC site, so if you wouldnt say it in front of your mother dont say it here. Also, lets not offend anyone whatsoever. The webmaster has been nice enough to give us this, so lets not take advantage of it. Lets keep all the trash on this forum and not in the football or any other sports forum on this site. Well, with all that said, lets have some fun!!!!! For the first trash............BARBERS HILL SIIIIZZZZZZUUUUUCCCKKKS!! ::2

i dont buy into lumberton..10 seniors in a 4a district wont get it done. we are over here in bc chompin at the bits to get to our game w/ them after all that jive talk. 10 seniors against our 32 wont hold up imo

i dont have a problem with some smack talk, but you guys do not realize how much of a turn off it is fo others to come to our football forum and see this constant smack talk going on...Use the football forum for exchanging info and opinions....use this forum for anything else... This board is not being over moderated...At their discretion, the moderators move threads to the appropriate forum when they need to be moved...very seldom do posts or threads get deleted unless they break one of the rules. All we do is move the threads to their proper places the vidor/wos thread started off as smack talk, even if it was friendly...the majority of people who click on that topic expect to read something about the up and coming vidor/wos scrimmage, yet when they click on it the see something about handicapped sections and something about some guy named Jody, which is severely off topic...if someone wants to start a new thread in the football forum, please do...but please keep it informative. thanks guy and I always appreciate your viewpoints

That's cool coop...I guess the problem was that we were just messing with eachother..It wasn't true "Smack talk.".it was really a Big joke..

In this case, piratefan was PRETENDING to smack talk, and even said so. We were telling him he had to do better and playing along.

Well obviously we have two different definitions of smack talk! I would never disrespect you or Jordan at all!!! You just know how I get passionate about certain things. I believe this is too"communist". Yep I said it!!

Hey i agree with you guys 100%. But there are people alot more than you think from other schools that don't like all the smacktalk, i get the PM's from them i know. Some sites wouldn't even add a school pride forum. Smokey's site doesn't allow it at all. In fact they ban people who do it and he has the #1 site in the state as for as a regional board goes. I told jdawg it would be a great idea to add this forum here where people can do that. I know there will be some SM talk in the football forum and that is ok as well.

I would encourage the person who considered it "smack talk" to go back and read all the threads..It was a few guys just having fun..No one was ever serious.. :cry:

Oh i understand completely. There's always going to be some smack talk there's no stopping all of it. But jdawg has recieved PM's from people in other areas as well as i saying the reason they like this site is becasue there's not smack talk...

Thats why I "try" to stay quite.. But thats what makes it fun on here..Talk about some good football and talk a little smack at the same time..

I personally knew all of the Adkissons (Von Erichs) growing up, my father and Fritz were friends from childhood so we made a lot of trips to go see World Wide, I still remember those long roadtrips in the middle of the summer in my dads 65 Ford truck with windows down and sweating all the way there. It really was tragic for that entire family, I remember pretty much each and every death and we went to all the funerals so I witnessed it firsthand, its still mind boggling of how much can happen in such a short span. I still talk to Kevin, his son Ross is wanting to go into wrestling, and Kevin has said that he will support him in whatever he wants to do. He looks a lot like Kerry, kind of an uncanny resemblance.....hopefully Ross can give the younger generation a taste of the tradition that us older guys grew up with.

Well said, baller. I wish Lumberton success but don't talk the talk until you have proven you can walk the walk. This is why you guys are taking so much heat on this board. You, my friend, seem to have it right.

Over - I say this not knowing exactly what they have coming back this year and base this more on history, but Dayton. I know that in the past we have played them in the first round of the playoffs and historically, we had much stronger teams than them sitting at home out of the playoffs. I know they have Dugat and he is a player, but if they have the same type of talent they usually have, they will be a 4th or 5th place team in 22-4A. Under - As much as I hate to say it, I don't think PNG is getting enough of a chance. They will have a huge OL coming back and 2 good RB's. The Hemmings kid that played FB towards the end of last year reminded me of Josh Cook. He is a strong runner. If they answer some QB questions and make the adjustments they talk about on D, they can make a run.

I go to Lumberton HS and man I wish them the best of luck. When you have not lost since 8th grade that is good ok I mean great but to be cocky is one thing also to be too cocky is another. I'm glad we are behind our team 100%. You have to realize though people on these boards need to be quiet because talk is cheap and when you have never made the playoffs and to keep talkin that's insane. I'm glad everyone is confident but wait till you win then start talkin. Use what people say to motivate you but stop talkin and wait till you win because if you keep talkin and can't back it up your in for a rude awakening. do it on the field!!! I wish everyone the best of luck and who knows it's a new season anything can happen!

Rookie? How childish. You find so much self esteem in being a frequent poster, here? Good grief. Like I said...get a life. Jody wrote: "If you would spend less time checking grammer and spelling and more time watching a real football team like BH, you might one day be as smart as me." This will mark ten consecutive years you've watched WO-S play, right? There's always room in the corral for more outsider fans like you, so make yourself at home. You can be an honorary Mustang. I expect a competitive scrimmage tomorrow. What I also expect is that IF WO-S roasts BH, you'll still talk crap as if it never happened. Dementia is a serious disorder.

Buna at Deweyville (lots of talk out of Buna) :twisted: