teamraider

So Lumberton white thinks they are the top dogs of the division anyone want to disagree

I hear PW Blue is the team to beat this year for Lumberton. They took half of Whites team in the expansion.

I wonder what happened to my post? They usually are pretty good about updating it. I don't think all the schedules and districts are made up yet. I  asked someone about Silsbee being in STJFL and they didn't know anything about it. Beaumont is the only new team and Woodville is the team that left.

As soon as the info comes in I am sure they will be updating  the website.

The STJFL site has been updated now

Gotta get going now got him signed up for football saturday hes already working out between bball games gaining weight so im all ready excited, you think beaumonts gonna beat yall?just because their BMT??

I aint been in hibernation, you just aint been around the boards much

You know i don't like to look too far ahead, but I think BMT is gonna have their hands full when they step on the grass with us and ya'll. Our returners are getting exited too... thats all I hear about on the bb fields lately.

Maybe hibernation wasn't the right word... just not too much smack yet. lol

See you in a couple of months

New Indian,

The West Beaumont Bulldogs are in now.  I am pretty sure the season is not going to be any longer than normal.  I am not sure I understand how anyone will have a weaker schedule by letting Beaumont in.  Also in case you don't know Woodville opted out for a new league closer to them this year.

land*shark,

It was not anything you said.  But your right I read the entire post and I just don't understand why people don't understand the we as volunteers spend countless hours for FREE, trying to put the best league forward for their kid to play in.  By best I don't mean best for their kid, but best for the entire league which includes about 1000-1200 kids.  A little less complaining and a little more understanding of what it is that we do for their kid to have a place to play would be nice. 

what i meant by weaker schedule is some leagues have 3 or more teams and not all are their best team so like last year we played the WOS white team and beat them but didnt get to play the blue team, played 2 Ned teams and beat em but didnt play their best team the black team, i would like for a longer season by 1 or more games but thats not up tp me and i cannot go the the STJFL meeting since im scheduled every time they are. Its probably for the best that woodville went to the other league more teams in their area, im surprised that Kountze hasnt gone that way.I think that PNG has everyone go back into the draft since everybody has to try out again. But my son stated that he wont play for any other coach but the one that hes played for since starting in flag

This is a whole different topic but I thought the draft rules were established by the STJFL. What's the reason for global draft policies if one association can start from scratch each year while others are following the rules by keeping their teams. There are pros and cons both directions, but the associations should be following the same rules.

Once you reach 200 post you can either give karma which means you agree or like a post or you can smite them which means you didn't agree or like the post. Karma is positive and smite is negative. It's really just for fun. It doesn't mean anything. You can only smite or karma the same person once per hour.

Thanks for the karma td... I imagine I'll lose a couple hundred over the Tonya Harding thing though... Just figured since Snoop Dog didn't work out so well maybe we'd try something new!

I think you have to win the super bowl to get karma lol...just kidding, I wished I knew as well. As for as what the other gentleman said about us in a panic, just to let him know we will panic when we stop winning lol.

You may be on to something with that super bowl thing since you have +2/-1... I guess it's a good thing I got myself a plan for next year.

I call it the Tonya Harding Offense... Simple really. I figure I'll just let my boys keep their equipment from baseball season... lol

I was at the weigh in for WO-S Junior Blue also and I can personally vouch they EVERY kid was weighed and MET the weight. You know I can understand why people are kinda jealous of our program because we win. Hey, why not insinuate that Lumberton is doing something wrong? I mean they had teams in all THREE divsions in the Super Bowl. When foolish people say foolish things guess what people think of them?

I respect every kid and coach in this league. I expect the same in return.

Well said Dragon. I don't think anyone is going to throw the red chalenge flag on us for getting all three teams to the Sperbowl. I bet next year when we win all three we'll be taking heat from all directions though.

Have nothing but respect for your players and coaches.

By the way: What is Karma and why don't I have more of it? I'm having to check twice before I cross the street now... Somebody give me some good Karma.  >

We all see the teams year in and year out that have giant kids playing linebacker, or running the ball that we know they are too big to play the position. It happens quite often. And as much as we hate to see it there are those parents that will make a kid diet or take a laxative to make the weight. Its stupid and terrible but it happens. I would like the referees to know the rules more thoroughly. As far as how an actual lo is suppossed to line up,and to pay attention to the kids lined up over your center and such. It seems as if none of the refs knew about these rules. Too many grey areas on these subjects. One issue i had also is if an lo cant run the ball,then how can he advance a fumble or an interception? I was under the impression it was dead at the spot he got it. That was the original reason lo were not allowed on kick offs and kick returns,because they did not want them with a chance to end up with the ball. Just would like some insight on this. How about a 2nd weigh in at the halfway point of the season?

The suggestion that larger kids are being sweated down to meet weight is exactly where the coach’s ability to challenge came from because you’re right the practice does happen and we all know it.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say we all agree on everything, but judging from this thread the majority seems to agree that weight caps need to be increased and most of those think there should also be some measures in place to keep the weight rules in check throughout the season.

What I hope does not happen is a weight increase with no monitoring. Because then we potentially have a kid that loses pounds to certify and then gains regular weight and muscle. With ONLY a weight increase we’ll have a 135lb ball carrier rather than the 120 pounders we’ve been facing.

As far as the LOs go… It was designed to let bigger kids play, but also keep them from building up steam and plowing over smaller kids. It’s a good plan that is intended to balance things out. And again, it is another reason we need a method to monitor because a 120 pound player should not be able to hit a 65 – 75 pound kid at full speed.

I have heard that most teams keep the MPR on only their team only. Do many teams get challenged on participation?

I've never seen it. If a coach keeps his own MPRs he has something to show someone who challenges his players participation. In fact this year I had a total of 3 MPR monitors. One for each O & D that reported to a master list holder, but I had a huge team of 29 players this year.

The only problem with not keeping an MPR on the opposing team is that you lose the option to challeng them if you feel they didn't get them all in. It's never been that important to me to do that.

I like the idea of extending the cap for the junior division.

While were talking about rules. My question is do you (love to hear what the coaches say) think the player participation report is being followed and enforced?

Depends on what you mean by followed and enforced...

Do we get ALL our players MPRs in? Absolutely, but more to make sure players and parents are getting their moneys worth. at the end of each game the opposing coach signs our MPR sheet.

Now do we keep it on the opposing team as well? Not really. I pretty much leave it up to him if he doesn't get them in it's up to him to look the player in the face and explain it to the parents.

One more thing.

I keep watching the video thinking it might end in a win for Lumberton... If you can make that happen on the DVD I'll buy 2

I have only one last question and I hope someone has a good answer to this one and hopefully I will not post anything else...if I can help it....

WHAT ARE THE WEIGHT RESTRICTIONS IN HIGH SCHOOL????????   ANYONE?????  I'm just curious....

THERE ARE NO WEIGHT RESTRICTIONS IN HIGH SCHOOL... BUT THIS ISN'T HIGH SCHOOL. I hear the comparison between our league and JR High or High School all the time when it comes to weights, rules, MPRs or even how we play the game. The main difference is that, unlike HS, Coaches can draft players for our teams, but have no input on the pool of players from which we choose. We as head coaches are burdened with the safety of our players without prejudice...  Little Johnny's Momma and Daddy want him to try out football this is where they come to make it happen. We can't sit him on the bench and we can't cut him. We live by an entirely different rule set than what we are being compared. And for the record, and I know this isn't popular with any of my assistants but, I wouldn't have it any other way (with the exception of one or two).

Nobody has a job as cool as ours. We get the first chance to sand down the rough wood and see what it looks like! But with that, the truth is there are quite a few that are in the wrong sport and we coaches know it... Even if the parents haven't seen it yet. So we deal with that and we have a duty to see to it that it's safe. This can't even be compared to sandlot ball because in the back yard kids get to choose who they're up against or they can walk away.

QueenB... At no time have I pointed your son out and said anything about him or accused anyone of anything for that matter. I keep pointing out that what I am suggesting would actually help you with the problem of the height weight ratio you brought up. Actually, as BigD, figured out this thread wasn't about WOS at all. We lost that game... I shook all your hands and said good game... said the same thing here... Haven't said anything else about the game since... I saw this problem at the beginning of the year and wanted to bring it up then, but waited till after the season to avoid this controversy.

Next year is the first year since the addition of Pee Wee that all Junior players will only have two years experience. Up till now most of the 10 year olds have had three years of Junior experience. I thought it was a good time to make sure we had the limits right before we go into next year... And while it is still fresh on our minds. If not for a weight increase it sounds like QueenB's son as well as players from other leagues (including a few on my team) might be affected because there is only a 10 pound weight differential from Pee Wee when we have a 30 pound margin to Seniors. Am I the only one that sees the problem with that?

It seems to me what has caused most of the problem is when I also suggested that a coach should be able to challenge the weight of a player... That seems fair to me. All I have heard from those that oppose the idea is that their kids never got over 100lbs. If that's true then don't worry about it. BigWorm if your son remained at 98 pounds all year... this doesn't affect you so, just as you suggested, let it go.

For the parent asking what to tell their 6 foot 220 pound kid about not playing ball. I don't know what to say other than there are going to be anomalies out there. You can tell him 2 things. One is that most coaches (me included) don't weigh that much and two while he might miss a year of senior ball in the STJFL, if he has any talent to go with his size, there will most likely be a representative from UT at his graduation waiting to talk to him.

In defense of Big Worm, her son would have done just fine on Senior Level, probably dominant. But the fact still remains that he played with his age group, and he was the correct weight.  Who cares if he's taller and faster than most of the kids, their still was no violation of any rule.  I too coached against him, and I'm not complaining.  I understand that everyone wants an even playing field, but realistically some kids are natural studs, and some kids are better coached. The teams with studs or the teams who have competitive coaches who put in the work to have their teams prepared are not worried about no size or height advantage. They just plan accordingly.  It seems to me that the teams who are not as successful are always looking for an easy way out, or always looking for a way to make it more even to give themselves a chance, instead of putting in the time and effort to better prepare their teams.  I have seen people do a lot with less, it is all about how you prepare and how hard you work. What's Next? Before too long, someone will suggest that if you run under a certain time in the 40, then you have to move up with kids that are more your speed to make the playing field more even. This is ridiculous. Should a stud pitcher have to play up in baseball if he throws too hard, or if he's a certain weight or height? You know a really big and tall kid can be just as intimidating standing on the mound, or god forbid their is a collision at the plate between him and a smaller kid.  I think that would do more damage than a football hit would anyday. Do we have the same safety concerns there?  Let it go!!!!

Why does this discussion keep going back to WOS or more specifically BigWorms kid? The original suggestion would actually help him and kids like him stay as a back because it increases the weight limits. Now the discussion is starting to be about a coach being competitive? There are weight rules already established and nobody is suggesting that weight be used as a tool to win. BigD the rules are there to keep everything safe and fair and I believe the STJFL does a good job in maintaining that focus.

Why is WOS so defensive in this topic? No one has made any accusations toward anybody these were only suggestions that ironically would help in the areas WOS is against... There is no reason to get defensive on this thread unless you already know the rules are being broken and you don't wanna get caught. By the way you are acting, maybe bulldogbacker is right and there needs to be more officials at the certifications or at least somebody planted at the scales.

As long as a player doesn't go over 115 pound mark throughout the year there would be no problem. I can't understand why it would be a problem to give an opposing coach a chance to challenge a player's weight.

It is not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog.

True... But if you put a bow in a pit bulls hair and paint his toenails just to be able to throw him in a poodle fight don't make it right or fair.

In my previous post I did not mean to imply we should cap Junior and leave Pee Wee and Seniors where they were... Obviously they would fall under a max weight as well.

Hope no one will ask for restrictions on height..cause then that will be a problem for my son...we really need to be careful about what we want with these weight restrictions....more rules....more problems....especially for the US...and US know who US is....lol ;)

Sorry to say this but some kids are unstoppable...not bragging or boasting...but it is true....these are kids and they are going to grow and gain weight...some more than others...

This thread was started as a method to balance weight for kids moving up through the divisions... As a coach I noticed that since we brought on the Pee Wee division we may have the weights wrong. I can see some kids getting caught not being able to play certain positions as they progress. My comments are not designed to tip scales from one league or take away advantages. The fact that some kids develop better or faster has no bearing on this discussion unless by development you mean they gain over 10 pounds in a 3 month period. But if that is the case it should certainly be able to be challenged.

The only way a player could gain that much weight is if they lost (or sweated) 7-8 lbs before certification and then gained it back plus another 7-8 lbs of regular weight. If that does happen (and I have heard by some that it does) then this plan would put a stop to that practice. Because Like BigD, I have seen kids running the ball that I know are over LO limit as well as the max weight limit for the division. Lets face it... In the Junior division there have been kids carrying the ball that weighed more than 125 lbs.

You may be right Player66... The local boards or STJFL may not listen to their coaches or give any credence to their opinions, but it is worth talking about and giving the opinion anyway.

BigD has a point... We shouldn’t open Pandora’s Box here, but we could accomplish everything that needs to happen with a few minor changes to the STJFL bylaws.

1. Leave Pee Wee and Senior weights where they are at currently.

2. Split the difference and increase the Junior weights:

     a. Certification weight of 105 with a cap of 115 for LO.

     b. Certification weight of 135 with a cap of 150 for Division.

3. Give each head coach three weight challenges per season and all playoff games.

This way we have a certification weight and an allowance for growth within the season. In the end we have increased the weights to allow for the natural growth of a player and we have kept everything safe and fair. The POP Warner method is too complicated and hard to keep up with, we shouldn’t have to re-certify before each game. But as a head coach, I wouldn’t have a problem with a fair weight margin that could be challenged. The only thing we would have to adopt from POP Warner is that each league would have to purchase a scale and assign a weight official. It shouldn’t be a problem for a league to drag out a scale along with their field setup on Saturday mornings.

Regular growth is acceptable, but I also agree with BigD in that there have been games this year where a player appears to be WAY outside the margin of regular growth (almost to the point of cheating). A head coach should have a method to challenge that situation other than the original certification cards. However, I also agree with LB-9 in that some plan needs to be imposed for safety and insurance purposes. All I can say about the issue of weight changes adding to controversy is that I believe it would eliminate any doubt as to a player’s eligibility prior to the start of the game.

I want to bring this up early so that nobody thinks I'm trying to bend any weight rules for next season. It seems to me the division and LO weight limits should progress evenly through the divisions.

Current weight limits:

Division           AGE         LO            CAP

===============================

PeeWee           7-8         90             125

Junior              9-10       100            125

Senior             11-13      135            155

There is less than a 10 lb difference from PW to JR and 35 lbs from JR to SR. These limits made a lot of sense before PeeWee when the JR ages were 8 - 10 and you could have a 65 pound 8 year old going against a 125 pound 11year old. We now have a 2 year gap in each division so weights could be better balanced.

For Example:

A player that is 90 lbs can be a RB in PeeWee then is LO in Jr because he is 101 lbs only to be able to run again at 135 lbs as a senior.

Just my opinion but I think it should be modified to something like this:

Division           AGE         LO            CAP

===============================

PeeWee           7-8         90             125

Junior              9-10       115            140

Senior             11-13      135            155

Thoughts?

Good Job WOS!!! You fellas came to play today. Thought we had you on the run at the 1st half... Not sure what was said to your team at halftime but I'd like to get a copy of that script. 

I'd sure hate to dissapoint NewIndian but Coach Rod we'll be ready for the rematch next year!

On a personal note: QueenB I had heard that Rod wanted to talk to me when I got there about a players mom in a wreck, but I didn't know it was you. I was looking for you at the end to shake your hand since you didn't get a chance a couple of weeks ago. Anyways I hope your ok and get to feeling better soon.

Hey COOP... Wanted to say good job for reporting on the Port Arthur Cowboys last week. Here's another chance to report youth football in Nederland's Bulldog Stadium all day next Saturday.

I'll bet the STJFL would even allow for commercial breaks if you wanna put it on the tube... ;D

I coach the Lumberton Junior team and not sure who made comments, but can promise it wasn’t one of our coaches. We are happy to be where we are and look forward to a good game next week with WOS Blue. I don’t want to start this week being off track with stuff that take away from how the teams played and where they’re headed next week. Both Junior teams played an awesome game and deserve their spot in the Super bowl.

Whatever methods we used to get there have worked this year. Nobody should be taking away from either team or even the teams they played to get there. Just being on the field gives the boys fundamentals they need to carry them to the next level. I think things like learning holes and how to block and tackle is the most important thing at this age.

Trash talking is a good thing… but let’s keep it clean and only about the upcoming game. The fact we are getting our boys involved in something good is a testament because there’s surely enough bad stuff out there for them.

Yeah were gonna be right back in the thick of it again next year, and next year to take the whole thing, is #11 moving up to senior or gonna be in Jr, my boy wants another shot at him, he frustrated cuz theres no Jr MCM and nobody left to hit xcept his brother and sis and thats not gonna happen

Well your son's gonna have to wait an extra year on that payback cause 11's a senior in 09. Tell him that we got another 11 in training if that helps. Don't know what his #s gonna be yet, but he won't be hard to spot... Good luck in the stand.

Well, I'm not even a "helper".  I guess I was "thriving" on conflict by answering a guys question about an offense he had a question about.  What ever happened to its just a game.???  I'm pretty sure most coaches with a video camera could figure out this mystery offense.

Sorry teamraider, I'm just a normal spectator that researched the offense and found that information. I also know how to shut down that offense, but that's TOP SECRET! 

Never mind... your not gonna get it and I'm done trying. Your in the clear and are absolutely right. You got other battles to fight anyways.

Im here i had to spend the weekend consoling my son hes mad as a wet hornet and i feel for anyone who gets in his way next year, DLs son was really mad it was a good game scoreless first half and only a total of 18 points scored in the game i was P.O.d at them kneeling with 1 min left to play our "D" was going after them to get the ball back, ripping like crazy . What can i say they watched the film and had prepared for us better than i thought, also we had the same refs yall had they were mugging our recievers all game, we threw them for a 12 yard loss and the ref only marks off 6, on their last TD the players knees was down before he crossed the line but it still counted, but ive complained about the officiating all season. Soon my son will be off to some summer camps in big "D" and another season and well make another run, right now my son signed up for b-ball and i hate that sport.and at least you cajun fried it

dang nobody tol them to make sure to wear a cup this is a rough sport , my son hates his cup but he dont have no choice, he knows before he leaves the house im gonna check an see if hes wearing it, im gonna flick him in his privates.

KJ himself is gonna be hard to contain, 

Hey Indian it was a good game. You're right the refs were terrible and there were bad calls all the way around. We had that touchdown called back for a facemask when both boys had each others facemasks like a couple of rams in heat.

Ya'll were tough all year and gonna be just as tough next year, but we'll be ready for ya... You talk a lot of smack and unlike others here, I like that. I told the boys what you were saying and that was one of the main things that fired them up this week so I guess I owe you a thanks!

DL's a great coach and ya'll are a great team so hopefully we can speed through BB quickly and ramp up the clock to next season. We'll see you then.

I was wrong about the coach part should have said "Lumberton helper."

I never said the offense was a secret. What I said was, even if you were not right, you were acting like you were giving away the secret... I suppose if someone saw the white offense they should automatically know that it has some simularities to a coach of a team called the Screaming Eagles and that there is a website about it if they care to Google it. Or maybe they could just Google "that offense i saw at the Pee Wee game this weekend" and find it that way.

A coach developed it and took his team to nationals. They were called the screaming eagles. Do a google because there is a website about this offense.

All Im saying is you would never catch someone from West Orange Stark doing what you did... I have seen your post and you seem to thrive on conflict.

what is the "snoop dog offense?" just curious what yall are talking about?

Basically the backfield squats down tight around the center. The defensive line cant see who the ball is given to so they have a hard time knowing which way the ball is going.  I think the real name is single wing offense. Its a single wing offense with a lot of misdirection.  A coach developed it and took his team to nationals. They were called the screaming eagles. Do a google because there is a website about this offense.

There are several towns out there such as WOS and Nederland with multiple teams in the same division. They are rivals of sorts but respect each others game. I've seen both WOS teams talking smack to each other for the last 3 weeks... What I have never seen is one of those teams sell the other out by posting their strategies on a public forum.

A couple of years ago the Lumberton Pee Wee White coach spent months during the off season researching to come up with a good offense program. The way I understand it, he devised it from about four he had looked at along with some of his own ideas.

He has been successful with it for several years now so for another Lumberton coach to post information from one of his sources is a lack of class that I have never seen from any sport on any level. Even if the information he is giving wasn't correct... The fact he thought he WAS giving out the secret is enough to make him cheap.

I'd like to know if there is any other coach out there that would sell out another team in their own town. Because I can't figure out a single reason why anyone would do that!