bballdude

Yes...

Lots of discussion about how folks played "back in the day" however, the game changes and evolves and the rules do as well.  Regardless of how you played, the targeting rule was introduced into the NCAA rule book back in 2008.  It has been a Point of Emphasis to Coaches and officials and remains such in the 2015 NCAA Rule Book.  Watch the coaches' reaction and you will see he realizes what is about to occur as he drops his arms from excitement to crud, here comes the flag. 

With that, the only information an official (or anyone else) should process when seeing this type hit is as follows:

1) Was the hit made with forcible contact with the crown of the helmet?  If yes, targeting!

2)  Was the hit made with forcible contact to the Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless player?  If yes, targeting!

In both Rule 9-1-3 & 9-1-4, the final statement sums up the attitude of not only the Rules Committee but also the officials' making the call: WHEN IN QUESTION, IT IS A FOUL....PERIOD!   Rule 2 defines a Defenseless Player.

 

Rule 9 - 2015 NCAA Rule Book:

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With the Crown of the Helmet

ARTICLE 3. No player shall target and make forcible contact against an opponent with the crown (top) of his helmet. When in question, it is a foul. (Rule 9-6) (A.R. 9-1-3-I)

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact to Head or Neck Area of a Defenseless Player

ARTICLE 4. No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder. When in question, it is a foul (Rules 2-27-14 and 9-6). (A.R. 9-1-4-I-VI)

Rule 2 - Definitions:

Article 14

f. A player obviously out of the play.

g. A player who receives a blind-side block.

 

PS-Don't get mad when one of my crew members drops that targeting flag on your team or heaven forbid, your son

 

John Darling - Kelly 1-HR vs. Northside Falcons 3/19/15

@oldman - as teeboan mentioned, it is a statewide shortage.  They mentioned at the State Meeting there is a 25% shortage of officials relative to recent years so it is a problem for every chapter for the very reasons you state.  Going to be an interesting season!

 

There are several schools in our area that request 3-man crews including 6A, 5A & some 4A coaches.  That will definitely become more of a challenge this year however, we are getting our numbers up as each day passes so we have our fingers crossed because we are not out of the woods just yet.

 

As for training, you are 100% correct!! teeboan and myself administer the training program.  We strive to have the most comprehensive approach to getting our new umpires prepared via on-field, cage work and we will have them working live scrimmages a minimum of 3 times with the training staff.

 

Recruit. Train. Retain.

@Silsbee92 - I am not 100% certain what "obstacles" you are speaking of unless it is the "verbal and physical confrontations you mention".  First, verbal confrontations will occur and while I will never, for the life of me, understand why the sport of baseball allows its coaches to confront officials the way it does, it is something that can be handled with a variety of techniques.  Secondly, I have not seen physical confrontations you speak of and if that occurs, ejection and larger issues with TASO & UIL upon receipt of my incident report on that coach.  Physical contact is a HUGE NO NO!!

 

The better umpires understand how to deal with this stuff.  You don't take it personally.  You understand why the coach is doing what he is doing BUT if you are sound with your mechanics and confident in your judgment, you simply let them vent, end the conversation and get back to the game of baseball.  Confident not cocky is the key here.

 

Totally understand where you are coming from.  It is more difficult to find good officials with the criticism giving by so many would-be experts...

@deuces...That is awesome.  Hadn't seen that video before.  Good stuff right there.  Officiating can certainly have that negative aspect to it with coaches coming out on a HS umpire and all however, that is the exception rather than the rule.  The majority of games are without this type exchange and the majority of games are a blast to officiate.  Parents screaming in the stands....well, that is simply a direction our society has been moving where everyone's an expert or critic yet very few "stand the post".  It's unfortunate yet you learn to laugh off the foolishness.

 

Teeboan has hit the nail on the head with the current state of umpires in Texas.  My son plays at Kelly HS and when we went to Liberty last year, there was only 1 umpire for a varsity game!  Spoke with him afterward and he said the majority of sub-varsity games are covered in Houston with 1 umpire and only 2 for varsity!!  YIKES but THAT is exactly where the Beaumont Chapter is headed this year.  We are doing our best to recruit umpires to maintain some level of coverage for the schools we service and schools other Chapters can not.

 

It is beyond fathomable that a Texas HS game could be played with 1 umpire but here it comes!!

Really?  116 views and not one taker?  C'mon and join the "dark side".  LOL

The Beaumont TASO Chapter is searching for new and experienced umpires.  Scrimmages, tournaments and regular season games are beginning soon.  If you are interested in joining the Chapter, with or without experience, we would like to visit with you.  Registration and State approval takes time so do not delay.

 

New umpires are provided a comprehensive weekly training from experienced TASO HS Umpires to include Rules Knowledge, Mechanics Knowledge and management of a HS Baseball game.  The schedule is flexible and you work the games based on your schedule and those levels you are most suited to handle based on evaluations from the TASO Chapter.

 

Visit www.tasobeaumont.org to complete the New Umpire Application found on the home page OR you are welcome to send me a private message for additional information.  Looking forward to seeing some new faces soon!

Based on your scenario, it is perfectly acceptable, by rule (3.5.3(c)), to penalize the defense after the play is over and prior to the next snap.  While it may "look" bad to have a coach point this out, getting the proper call is most important.  Regardless of when you flag the defense, before the imminent snap or after the snap/play, it is a  5 yard penalty.  There is no defense from the other coach simply b/c the opposing coach pointed it out...You still had 12 coach!

 

@fireinthehole - Should the offense have an illegal substitution (breaking the huddle with more than 11) or illegal participation (more than 11 in a play), this is also a 5 yard penalty.  The 15-yard penalty you mention is only on the 2nd offense of rushing substitutions on without allowing the defense to respond/match-up. Different than 11 on the field for a play or breaking a huddle.

 

FB is a fast-paced game with officials having tons of responsibilities before, during and after each play.  Counting players is something that is supposed to be done prior to each play.  When you watch your next game, take a look at the officials signaling one another with their arms out, closed fist, open hand or thumbs up...that sort of thing.  This is where they are telling one another the count is correct or one team has fewer than 11, etc.  If you do not see this, it is a veteran crew OR they are forgetting to count which leads to the "Oops, there are 12 out here" scenario.  Can't catch every infraction however, our goal is to catch the infractions that have a bearing on a play (i.e. - holding away from the ball will NEVER be called).  12 on the field is a biggie!

Similar to MrUmp1, I called a runner out at first. Varsity HC yells "No way. There's no way he's out. He's the fastest kid on my team!"....HaHa

Took everything to keep from laughing which would have set him off. Gotta love this stuff.

Minor updates to Kelly players for next round of HR posts:
Proctor (Jr)
Harris (Sr)
Duplissey (Jr)

Great thread!

I umpired for three years while a student at Lamar University and have been a high school coach for 22 years since.  I called little league ONCE.  Worse than any high school game I ever called.  I very seldom will argue with umpires(except SFA vs Orangefield) unless it is a bad call due to not hustling to get in position.

Most experiences are like yours and most get their start like you as well; out of necessity or for gas money. Often wonder why I didn't just as soon take the coaching route as well. Appears to be much safer territory until your team plays like they've never seen a baseball...Ever had that happen in your 22 years? :)

PS-The lower the level, the louder the moms and grandmas :)

No harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. I know it's a thankless job and without umps we can't play. There are some really good ones out there. As far as signing up, I've been a coach too long and could never switch to the "DARK SIDE". LOL!

Rake1

Agree and understand completely...I am not one that challenges "those that disagree" to sign up so as to show them how tough this is or get em to hush. I was sincere with my invite to attend as a guest and just watch and listen. We simply LOVE the game of BB and umpiring can be quite rewarding. You coach b/c you love the game and working with kids...same here.

Offers a different perspective of the guys behind the "masks" and shirts. Also, new ump training starts at 5:45 and there are some great discussions there about rules, mechanics and game situations. Out of both mtgs by 8:00 then the fun begins.

PS-Refreshments before or after the meeting are worth your time as well :) Let me know if interested and I will get you that info as well (privately...can't have the entire Forum show up LOL).

Be careful, you may break your arm patting yourself on the back. You
May also want to check out last nights ump on social media before you come running in here like the cavalry to save the day. You can thank me later. That, as you so like to put it, is REALITY.

Rake1

@Rake1-Sorry you misconstrued this as me "patting myself on the back" as that was NEVER my intent. Was merely pointing out the difficulty in getting umpires to work games in hostile environments and/or when guys know they will be ripped by coaches, fans or on posts such as has happened here. There are tons of other opportunities to call games. Only point I was attempting to make. Sorry if it came off any way other than that.

As for checking social media, I will leave that to my children. Have to assume from your comment this umpire posted on his performance or something similar. I am hopeful you are not of the belief umpires walk off the field thinking they got every call right or that every game is their best? Not even close. We do our best to get every pitch or call correct but it rarely occurs. We discuss each game in detail to help each other improve. It is not as easy as it appears. I can tell you this....every umpire has walked off a field believing he has called a consistent game only to hear grumbles from coaches and fans and have threads like this shred them which makes a guy doubt himself. Again, another in the long list of reasons it is difficult to recruit and retain umpires. The fact that we are umpires should tell you something about us being a tad "off our rockers" :). Tough to hear the stinging criticism and want to continue doing something you love to do. Since we are speaking about REALITIES...That's another hurdle our Chapter faces each year :(

Final TASO meeting is tonight, 7:00PM should you be interested in simply listening (as a guest) to some very decent guys working hard at a craft that is more often thankless than rewarding. You may even get to hear me berated by the Board for posting my opinions here :(

It is very difficult to read this thread without responding when it is quite obvious some are wearing their rose-colored glasses as they evaluate and shred the umpiring. Leave age out of this. Your plate umpire for the HF game last week is 24 but you won so nothing was said of his ability (or lack of). WOS earned a win last night and no other explanation is necessary. WOS was better than BC last night...PERIOD! However, let's see if I understand what I have read (If I am to believe the comments, in combination with the stats from this post)

POST: KOGT states the umpire is a "hitters" ump.
REALITY: BC-2 hits, WOS 5!
POST: I've seen better umps in LL.
REALITY: Many of us TASO umpires are volunteer LL umpires and perform very well at high levels of both (thank you for noticing)
POST: Coaches can scratch umps followed by this guy will never call for BC and WOS.
REALITY: Umpires can scratch schools as well and many of us have scratched BC for the very reason you can read throughout this post.
REALITY: I called the BC/HF game last week (after having scratched BC) simply because no other umpires were available due to the high number of scratches and I was basically begged to take the game.
REALITY: The only other BC game I called this year was similar to last night: Livingston had more hits, pitcher threw well and BC made 4 or more errors. As a result, Livingston beat BC because they were the better team that day.

Winning is great. Losing is tough. Some times you play well, other times you just don't but to take away a solid performance by your opponent without acknowledging your teams poor performance AND then turn on the umpires is demeaning to your opponent(s) and....Well, you understand why the top umpires in the Chapter will exercise their right to scratch these type schools (irrational fans don't help either).

PS-I have called WOS 3 times this season and they are a solid team. Lack the pitching depth they'd like to have but 1-9 hits well and they play solid defense much like BC.

Best of luck to both teams in the playoffs as you represent SE TX and will do so very well!!

Great point Bmtcpa87. I heard a few minutes ago Proctor may take the mound for Kelly tonight as well. Should be an interesting matchup. There are only 4 HS games locally tonight so if you're a BB fan, Kelly could be an interesting place to be (weather permitting).

For some other great players, Craig Biggio will bring his son, Cavin, and the St. Thomas team to Kelly this Thursday. Must have been 8 MLB scouts at St. Thomas when they played last and yes, Proctor was asked to fill out an information sheet by the Rockies' scout. He's on their radar which lends some credence to his being one of the tops in SE TX at SS.

St. Pius - 7
Kelly    - 5

Jasper beat Pearland Maroon, 8-4 last night.  Jasper plays Lamar National in Championship game at 7:00 tonight. Jasper has to beat Lamar twice, tonight and 10:00am "if necessary" game tomorrow.

[quote name="MrUmp1" post="1212252" timestamp="1334782685"]
There is no specific rule that I have found or know of. The one thing that is a problem is that you sweat, wipe your face, if you get it on your hands then touch the ball you are in violation of applying a foreign substance to the ball. Now you have a problem. Thats something you can be ejected for. Greg Maddox was once ask about it and he said he would never wear it cause it would incite the hitter and thats not what he wanted to do. I will check with some real gurus and see what they have to say.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply and I would appreciate anything you can find on it.  The foreign substance rule could certainly come into play.  I assume an umpire could deem excessive face paint as a "distraction" which is certainly under his judgment to restrict however I have not seen any umpire make a pitcher remove it until the other night.

Beyond eye black, I've been seeing lots of players excessively painting their faces.

Is there a specific NFHS rule regarding players wearing "face paint"?  Is the rule specific by position (i.e.-Pitchers are restricted, etc.) and can you point me to that rule(s)? Thanks!

[quote name="thetragichippy" post="1021892" timestamp="1309551217"]
Reading the post on here has been very entertaining to say the least. You can definitely tell who the umps are, the coaches and the parents by their post. Everyone is pointing the finger, but no one wants to take the blame. It seems to me that blame could be spread out pretty evenly. I've seen bad coaches, bad parents and bad umps (yea, I know that's hard for the umps to believe.....)

With that said, the majority of the coaches, parents and umps are good.....but everyone is going to have to admit some blame for the issues or it will never be fixed.

I would caution the posters that think LL will be around if the bad calls, bad coaching and improperly run leagues continue. Look at the number of teams 5 years ago versus today. My son will be playing select next year because of the issues. If he plays LL, it will be second to his select team.

my 2 cents

[/quote]

I agree with you 100% that the blame should be equally shared.  This thread just didn't start out that way and I, for one, don't care to see any [i][b]one[/b][/i] person blamed completely.

As for LL versus Select, you're going to get the same bad calls, bad coaching and bad parents at both.  It's in all youth sports, period! My suggestion is to play both.  Select is weekend tournament ball and has its place but your local LL will be where you son/daughter meets the friends he/she will head off to HS with (after baseball).  The best players/teams around play both. They use Select to preapre themselves for LL All Stars.  Just look at the most recent 12 yo All Star teams to make big waves at State, BC (GTB) & Jasper (Scrappers).  These kids enjoyed the best of both worlds and my son played against both teams at Ford park and in LL All Stars.

[quote name="sports girl" post="1021669" timestamp="1309490264"]
bbaalldude you are a disgrace to the game! you have no right being around kids. You have so many issues why dont you stay home and fix them. You bring your frustration to the game take it out on little kids and then expect the kids to act the way you want. You didnt see the kid from bc throw the hat did you. You were ridiculled by every person at that park last night. You should do everyone a favor and stay home!!!![quote author=bballdude link=topic=84994.msg1021521#msg1021521 date=1309453471]
Apparently, Little League coaches can now determine "which" rules to enforce and "which" rules will not be enforced and if things don't go their way, it's seems acceptable to call out umpires by name and dig up elementary or high school issues on this thread.  That's unfortunate and uncalled for!
[/quote]

sports girl...sorry to dissappoint you but I am [u][b][i]NOT[/i][/b][/u] the umpire you're looking to attack! I do not umpire in mid-county and your hostility is beyond comprehension.

[quote name="faub10" post="1021621" timestamp="1309474824"]
Well bballdude,,,if u were behind the plate or at 1st base last nite,,,yur an idiot and ain't worth a s#&*  for a volunteer umpire,,,,,,,,if not I'm sorry,,,cause the other 2 umps really didnnt say much or have very much action last nite,,,,,,
[/quote]

faub10. I do not umpire in your league.  Not that I wouldn't but like most Little Leagues, ours has a shortage of volunteers and its own set of issues.

Would love to stick around but if you haven't figured it out yet, I am one of those volunteer umpires that put up with hearing you, your wife and the grandparents each night and I have another game to umpire tonight, my 9th game in 5 days so please bring your rule books tomorrow or I'll be preaching it once again! ;D  I'm OUT!

[quote name="kf'89" post="1021589" timestamp="1309468040"]
u sure r good at calling me names big red 42,sure would be nice to meet u
[/quote]

Really KF'89...Is that your response to everything?  Teach me in person!  Would be nice to meet u!  C'mon. Raise the level of conversation here and keep in mind this discussion is about two calls by an umpire that some feel were inappropriate.  You're wanting to take it outside for that???  Can you see why youth sports is in such trouble?  

PS-Back when I was a kid, we took it outside and shook hands afterwards.  Today, other folks don't have the same man-to-man intentions as you may so how about we keep the discussion civil and on point.  Maybe we all learn more about the game we all enjoy.  It's about the kids!