bballdude

[quote name="JJG" post="1021583" timestamp="1309466431"]
Well to put my 2 cents in...

The Umpires are able to give out warnings in these situations and educate the players and coaches, correct.

A stern warning to the player and an explanation of why the stern warning would of probably been enough. The kids do need to know that at each level of the LL tourney the Umps will become more strict with all the rules. Since this was a district game, why not warn and educate a 10yr old on how not to behave without a drastic punishment?

As for the coach, I also think a warning could of been issued. I mean when does a grown man have to ask permission to go to the bathroom? Only if he is in a chain gang serving time. But if that is a rule by LL it has to be adhered to. So this ump could of warned and educated the coaches that this will not be tolerated in the future. Don't toss a coach for that, toss him for being obnoxious about your strike zone or your bad call on the bases, but really for going to the restroom, c'mon!  ???

I am stressing the educate part because of this umps so called role in education. He needs to apply some of the classroom to the baseball field, is all!


[/quote]

While there are several situations where warnings may be issued (going to the bathroom may be one), I dare say banging or tossing a helmet, whichever this player did, is NOT one that I'd warn a player for.  What do I do when the other team tosses a helmet with more aggression?  Hard to toss him if I set a precedent earlier. One of the challenges umpires face is equal application of the rules and you never want to make a ruling that'll come back to bite you if the other team commits a similar infraction so, possibly allow the coach to go to the bathroom but the player, gotta go!

As for your comments about this ump's role in education, are you 100% certain he does not apply the same strict adherence to University policy?  You sure he allows students to arrive late, miss homework assignments and on and on and on?  If not, you're grasping at personal arguments that have no place on here.  Stick to the facts of this game!

Apparently, Little League coaches can now determine "which" rules to enforce and "which" rules will not be enforced and if things don't go their way, it's seems acceptable to call out umpires by name and dig up elementary or high school issues on this thread.  That's unfortunate and uncalled for!

Coach, if the LL rule book states "no one shall leave the dugout without permission", then no one leaves the dugout, period!  If a kid throws or slams his helmet, regardless of where it occurs, that rule also has to be enforced or what [i]will[/i] be allowed next?  Administering rules as an umpire isn't a situation where one decides what the most popular call will be at the moment.  How about coaches simply respect the rule, quickly ask the umpire and you'll be on your way to the bathroom?  How about coaches teach their players how to channel their "emotion" into hustle and better play rather than the "attitude" you feel is in some way helping this 10 year old.  The comment made [b][i]"he feels he let his team,coaches,family & city down when he gets out or makes an error"[/i][/b] is probably the most unfortunate comment I have seen here.  C'mon! A 10 year old made to feel this much pressure by his team, coaches, family and city is a sad statement on youth sports but that is also evident by the posts here.

About the umpire:
One of the umpires you so easily criticize happens to be the very umpire that has received some of the highest evaluations at the LL State and Regional Tournaments over several years and has also received a LL World Series assignment!  Why would I mention this? Glad you asked.  [b][i]THAT[/i][/b] is how Little League (Williamsport) wants umpires to enforce rules, regardless of personal feelings, league affiliations, etc.  These umpires do not pick and choose selective rules to enforce or Managers, parents and fans like what I read here decide when it's appropriate to leave the dugout or slam their helmet (in "passion" or violent disregard for the umpires).

I truly hope as many of you as possible with travel to Tyler for the LL State Tournament, July 23rd-July 27th to see how a Little League game is handled by umpires and Tournament Directors (no, the onsite DA will NEVER stick his/her head onto the field without a formal protest being made as one of you suggested unless D32 operates differently than the rest of the LL world).  You 'll see how the focus is on the kids and the game and not the adults.

PS-I'm not holding onto the thought that umpires do not make mistakes. They (WE) do and it's OK to disagree but when it turns personal, that's unfortunate and that's what you've shown here.

[quote name="teeboan" post="872381" timestamp="1286827444"]
Great post. After last Saturday I will never officiate another "little fella" football game because of the stands full of "That" parent. I have officated 249 sub varsity and 80 varsity games (I check my spreadsheet) many playoffs and have never felt unsafe leaving a field until Saturday. "That parent" in the stands was inciting his 8 yr olds to break the arm of the opposing 8 yr olds because they couldn't stop them. They SCREAMED for a flag every play that they couldn't defense. I used to work these games because it was fun to watch the little guys play and learn the game. Sorry, but when and 8 yr old tackle gets up out of his stance to pull out a wedgie, I'm not flagging him. When 8 yr olds break the huddle with 12, or 13 or 14 they are not trying to confuse or trick the defense, they are just trying to play ball. I stop the game, get the right number on and let them play. Regardless of what "That Parent" screams. I will no longer miss Saturdays with my family to be abused by That parent. We have our TASO meeting tonight and we are going in encourage the rest to stand down from them also. Just put somebody out there to spot the ball and let the kids play.
[/quote]

Teeboan, hang in there and don't give up on these kids.  I have been in your shoes (this past Sat., in fact) but keep in mind, these kids need positive role models in their lifes and yes, officials can be that.  It is obvious "That Parent" will not be able to do that for them.  Keep up the great work.

As I so often say "youth sports is fantastic until the adults get involved?" :'(

[quote name="AllSportsMom" post="811806" timestamp="1276315313"]
[quote author=bballdude link=topic=70252.msg811537#msg811537 date=1276268836]

AllSportsMom-Please change your ID to MomWithBlindersWhoHasNoClue!!  bmtcpa87, whomever that is, seems to have all of the insider facts regarding the 2009 12's from WELL. Neither of you, ALLSportsMom or FPHS, could name a player that would have helped that team with the versatility necessary to be on that team. Yes, several kids had great years and didn't make the team.  You can only have so many catchers or first basemen.  At some point, you have to field an ENTIRE team and most All Star players are all infielders.  THAT's why the kids you guys refer to with initials were not selected!

Shame on you and FPHS for not seeing the real truth.  The coaches' kids get to practice first, leave last and typically get a raw deal from their dads who ride their butts to work harder than the rest of the team.  The Select kids practice more, play more and really work on their game and you expect the other kids to keep pace. Right!

I challenge you, don't get on the Board, but COACH a team. Make batting orders.  Set positions. Spend countless hours making decisions that best place your team in a position to be competitive. Oh, set playing times for 12 or 13 kids and let's see what you consider FAIR!  Let's not forget, learn the rules. Not the BS rules you seem to quote but the actual LL rules coaches must abide by during every game.

When you do this, start your posts again and let's really see what you think about "daddy ball" and "coaches" kids. Until then, stay on the sidelines where you feel most comfortable lobbing your grenades at those who actually work WITH the kids and not just yours!
[/quote]

bballdude:  No ID change required...Yes I am a Mom but I'm not one with blinders (I see things very clearly) on & without a clue. The only thing I may not have a clue about is the same as you cuz I don't know who all these initials are either. But never claimed to. Know very few of these older kids & am referring to current season only NOT the PAST... I know rules for league & rules for all-star tournaments & they are NOT ALL the same.  I never claimed to know any kids that didn't make it that should on the 2009 team or 2010 team either for that matter...

Never said a word about "daddy ball" or "coaches" kids... Any child regardless of who their parents are should be treated equal... If my kids were disrespectful to their teammates, had poor sportsmanship, refused to listen to the coaches, didn't go to practice, didn't put forth any effort  etc... Coaches kid or not - I'd be the first to say he should sit the bench regardless of his playing ability...

I didn't lob any grenades from the sidelines nor did I quote any BS rules... so not really sure what ur referring to there...

Never dogged WELL... Participated in many organizations over the years including positions on some boards & yes have done line-ups, positions, & all that as well... I don't just rely on my sons coaches to work with him regardless of the sport he is participating cuz that has to happen at home too...




[/quote]

AllSportsMom-many of the comments were directed at FPHS 78 after my first remarks to you but you can go back and read your posts about rules you seem to not know.  Yes, WE check the 60% rule. No JD was not hurt playing select. He hurt his hand payling football but was able to play WELL.  Check our By-Laws. WELL teams must carry 13.  I was involved with last year's team and know every "initial" referred to and having others question motives without the facts gets real old like a mom who would complain about when starters re-enter a game (even in a blow-out).

Truly hope the 9's can beat Jasper next week!!

[quote name="FPHS 78" post="811632" timestamp="1276284580"]
[quote author=bmtcpa87 link=topic=70252.msg811606#msg811606 date=1276281602]
FPHS - You do realize that the kid that you said should have been on the 12 man roster, his dad was a coach in the league.  The kid that got the last spot on the team is being raised by a single mom and he was not on our "select" team.  As a "fan" I'm sure you new that.  Kinda shots down you arguement.

As for your last post, I'm not going to respond because I don't know what your talking about. 
[/quote]

if i remeber correctly, i think jm and ah were on the same team----------- please, name me one coach (or asst coach for that matter), whose child didnt make all-stars?  and yes, alternates are all-stars


and you dont know what I'm talking about? what, west end not following rules?  heck, y'alls president doesnt even live in the boundaries!  "Line up kids, say the LL pledge, then lie about where you live"---whats that teaching these children?
[/quote]

Let's see, I guess I should respond since I raised everyone's hair:

FPHS 78-if that's your grad year, we were in diapers at just about the same time but nice try with your Jr. reference...You only have me a a couple of years.

No doubt, WELL has its shortcomings along with every volunteer youth organization in the world. They work tirelessly to provide the best experience possible and the 'ol 80-20 rule is alive and well here too where 80% of the work is done by 20% of the members. It's when someone with no knowledge of the system or never lifts a hand attempts to drag the program (The kids) down that I get worked up.  You have made a feable attempt to bring down the 12 All Star kids and their coaches in order to further your personal agenda and yes, I will defend those kids to the max b/c they don't deserve it.

It's only after learning some truths about that team (that you were obviously unaware of like 200+ kids OOB; get real!) that you begin to rip up the [b]entire[/b] WELL program.  At some level, it points to your personal axe to grind and less about the process of selecting the team which is where this began.  I submit, politics rears its ugly head in the process at WELL just as in every organization, be it work, church, whatever, but WELL has a system and we do the best to use it to select the best Teams we can.

As evidenced by West End's success in All Stars, most of the time, we get it right.  That doesn't mean every deserving kid is selected every year.  That can't happen but this group from 2009 has had too much success over their 4 years for anyone to debate IF the right kids were on the team.  District Champs 3 years in a row; Sectional Champs one of those years has got to tell you something about the KIDS and maybe the process!

I wish you all of the success in the world with the program you support but as for your anger toward West End, Let it go!

[quote name="AllSportsMom" post="811454" timestamp="1276226081"]
[quote author=pngpurple4ever link=topic=70252.msg811127#msg811127 date=1276179544]
[quote author=truthhurts link=topic=70252.msg811123#msg811123 date=1276178292]
[quote author=AllSportsMom link=topic=70252.msg811080#msg811080 date=1276147552]
[quote author=FPHS 78 link=topic=70252.msg810926#msg810926 date=1276137379]
[quote author=bmtcpa87 link=topic=70252.msg810687#msg810687 date=1276112686]
FPHS, I'd love to know what talent was left of the WELL All Star team last year.  That core group of boys won district as 10's, 11's and 12's.  As 10's they went to state and as 12's they went to the sectional championship and lost to the Bridge City team that won state and was one game from the little league world series.  There wasn't anyone left off that team that would have changed the end result.
[/quote]

proves my point...same 18 kids 10/11/12.......
anyway, that was an very good group of ball players..what, there was 18-19 all-stars and alternates...10-12 of em legit all stars, altho, if you have a broken arm for most of the year, you shouldnt automatically be an all star-great kid tho-..a couple of the alternates played far better during the year than some of the starters and the usual 5 that shouldnt have been selected at all..sorry cant give kids names here...want initials?  did not have allstar years---b.c.,d.d.,q.m., both j.t,w.l....j.d. was hurt most the year...a.h. shoulda been a starter...
[/quote]

Rules say you have to play 60% of the season to be eligible for all-stars but no one checks that... kids out w/broken hands, fingers, toes etc cuz get hurt in select tourneys & can't participate in league yet can make all-stars... some of same kids/others do not practice for all-stars yet start/play every game... when I grew up No Practice - No Play (except mandatory time)...
[/quote]

Wow!  Sounds like you and FPHS should get on the board and straighten this mess out.
[/quote]
As long as you're dealing with "League Allstars" it never will be fair to all. You have to just face the facts and deal with it. Anytime you have a coach who is "biased" towards certain players (good or average players), certain good kids will be left out or will make the team and be tossed aside just to get minimum playing time. This is exactly why I decided last year to dig deep into my pockets and find a select team for my kid and not deal with the league politics. I have found a local select team which has a hired coach and very little "Daddy Ball" influence. As long as you are dealing with young kids, you never will entirely get rid of the "Daddy Ball" but you can greatly minimize it. Find a select team who only accepts kids after a tryout and has no more than 10-12 players on the team. If your kid is good enough to make the team, he will get plenty of playing time. I know it is expensive and not everyone can afford it, but it is the only way to get away from the league "screwball" politics. Yes, run for office and see if you can make a difference. Maybe you can and the world will be a much better place for everyone. Well, accept for the kids who never should have been on the Allstar team in the first place.
[/quote]

True...True... But life isn't fair...

First thing is to get the board to change the bylaws requiring 13 players... actually the 13 players really wouldn't be a bad thing if the coaches knew the rules regarding playing time for starters/substitutes... if they knew that they wouldn't have put starters back into a game in which they are winning by more than 15 runs... Don't get me wrong my kid has started & sat the bench both... I'm all for that cuz as far as I am concerned they are a team & u win as a team & lose as a team ... But when you have players that think they are better than everyone & parents that think their kids are better than everyone it just doesn't work & kids get hurt.. You don't dog your team mates or your child's teammates when they make an error or strike out cuz it is going to happen after all they are only 9 (Heck I'm 45 & still make mistakes) but you pick 'em up not shut 'em down... play select ball too but I think little league is also important
[/quote]

AllSportsMom-Please change your ID to MomWithBlindersWhoHasNoClue!!  bmtcpa87, whomever that is, seems to have all of the insider facts regarding the 2009 12's from WELL. Neither of you, ALLSportsMom or FPHS, could name a player that would have helped that team with the versatility necessary to be on that team. Yes, several kids had great years and didn't make the team.  You can only have so many catchers or first basemen.  At some point, you have to field an ENTIRE team and most All Star players are all infielders.  THAT's why the kids you guys refer to with initials were not selected!

Shame on you and FPHS for not seeing the real truth.  The coaches' kids get to practice first, leave last and typically get a raw deal from their dads who ride their butts to work harder than the rest of the team.  The Select kids practice more, play more and really work on their game and you expect the other kids to keep pace. Right!

I challenge you, don't get on the Board, but COACH a team. Make batting orders.  Set positions. Spend countless hours making decisions that best place your team in a position to be competitive. Oh, set playing times for 12 or 13 kids and let's see what you consider FAIR!  Let's not forget, learn the rules. Not the BS rules you seem to quote but the actual LL rules coaches must abide by during every game.

When you do this, start your posts again and let's really see what you think about "daddy ball" and "coaches" kids. Until then, stay on the sidelines where you feel most comfortable lobbing your grenades at those who actually work WITH the kids and not just yours!