stevenash

[quote name="king" post="1229622" timestamp="1339291508"] Brandon Bass playing like a man posessed [/quote] I thought that losing big baby and gaining bass worked out very well.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1230089" timestamp="1339514503"] Guys its to darn hot to play golf these days! Played Longwood on Saturday and almost quit during the back 9! [/quote] Guys who are par shooter ( if you were telling the truth) are never impacted by heat.  I will personally tag along and have plenty of cool drinks and ice packs for you

[quote name="Tigersvoice" post="1230038" timestamp="1339503623"] [quote author=team first link=topic=100318.msg1229979#msg1229979 date=1339462367] [quote author=falconfanatic link=topic=100318.msg1229948#msg1229948 date=1339451389] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229942#msg1229942 date=1339449962] [quote author=falconfanatic link=topic=100318.msg1229937#msg1229937 date=1339448233] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229935#msg1229935 date=1339447246] I was reading in the paper yesterday how the high school rodeo guys win prize money in their competitions AND ALLOWED TO KEEP IT!!  ;) tHINGS THAT MAKE YOU ...HMMM? [/quote] Rodeo is not a uil sport so the uil rules do not apply to them. It's the same thing as an AG student selling thier animal or an art student winning prize money for thier work. [/quote] You are absolutely correct. And the AG example was right on time ;) Make you wonder why some things are the way they are  ;) [/quote] What does AG have to do with uil sports? Those are independent competitions. Are saying that high schools students shouldn't be able to win prize money in any competition? [/quote] He has no clue, or he would have never posted it in the 1st place [/quote] C'mon Guys!  Dove having lived in the Hamshire-Fannett area (maybe still lives there) not being knowledgeable about agriculture and rodeo - how could that be? :D [/quote] Dove may actually be a rancher in disguise

[quote name="Honest Abe" post="1229944" timestamp="1339450723"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229942#msg1229942 date=1339449962] [quote author=falconfanatic link=topic=100318.msg1229937#msg1229937 date=1339448233] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229935#msg1229935 date=1339447246] I was reading in the paper yesterday how the high school rodeo guys win prize money in their competitions AND ALLOWED TO KEEP IT!!  ;) tHINGS THAT MAKE YOU ...HMMM? [/quote] Rodeo is not a uil sport so the uil rules do not apply to them. It's the same thing as an AG student selling thier animal or an art student winning prize money for thier work. [/quote] You are absolutely correct. And the AG example was right on time ;) Make you wonder why some things are the way they are  ;) [/quote] Seriously BD? You do know that the school district does NOT supply/purchase the animals, right? The kids (parents) purchase the animals, buy food, medicine, provide land, etc while they grow. Then they present the animals. Some animals are purchased in which the top animals make a small profit. Most, however don't get purchased, and most kids barely break even when their animal is purchased. It's a way for these kids understand the trade in which they plan to make a career. It shows them that just bc you try does not mean you will make a profit. Only the best are recognized and awarded. These animals then produce more animals for us to consume. [/quote] I'll bet he thinks this type of activity should be run by the Federal Government.

Is there any doubt in your mind why 41 freshman would apply to be accepted at a single school whose academic performance is "unacceptable" and the general student population is in decline?

Please go ahead and tell us this:  Since basketball is not the reason for those 41, what athletic program is it that would attract a student to move to an academically unacceptable school with a declining enrollment?  I think this is the point where you normally say, "go ahead, I will wait"

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229886" timestamp="1339434534"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229885#msg1229885 date=1339434125] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1229884#msg1229884 date=1339433912] [quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=100318.msg1229883#msg1229883 date=1339432978] Yes, Rodney Saveat did that.  And I firmly believe he was telling the honest to God truth. Is he unreal, too? [/quote] No, just some of you on here...Ridiculous to even SUGGEST that the kid in question did not transfer to HJ to play basketball...And the sad thing is YOU KNOW IT TOO.. :o [/quote] It's funny that you "know" about that( hj transfer) but you dont seem to "know" about the 41 applicants whom you believe "might" be coming to Yates for communications.  You look pretty silly here D.V. [/quote] No I look like I am calling it as it IS, unlike you who wants HJ to continue to be perceived as the "purest" program in the UIL....Thats ridiculous...People know who I am, and its not silly to call it as it is...That kid transferred to HJ to play basketball..Its just that simple.  The 41 kids that are transfering to Yates, we j=have no idea who they are and why they are coming..You people with your "mob mentality" has turned it into a crusade to discredit Yates...I hope they play your HJ team next year and beat the brakes off of them!...What will you say then? they had 41 transfers that all came on the Yates varsity in 2012-13? You people are something else... ::) [/quote] Get OVER yourself.  You can sit there and simultaneously DECLARE that one kid came to HJ for basketball but you have NO IDEA what the 41 ( Yes, FORTY ONE) are coming to Yates for  even though they have all filled out prior athletic participation forms?  Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE that anyone reading this thread is not laughing their A$$ off at you?  If we play Yates and they "beat the brakes" off of us, I will say probably what I always say when we lose.  Just be sure that the reverse never happens because if and when it does, you will never hear the end of it.  But then again, who would expect a school with 400 or 500 students to compete against a school twice that size whose enrollment is dwindling but has 41 freshman applicants for " communications excellence"? (and you brag on yourself about "calling things as they ARE")

I suspect the FACTS that you just stated will, somehow, be declared as trash.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229884" timestamp="1339433912"] [quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=100318.msg1229883#msg1229883 date=1339432978] Yes, Rodney Saveat did that.  And I firmly believe he was telling the honest to God truth. Is he unreal, too? [/quote] No, just some of you on here...Ridiculous to even SUGGEST that the kid in question did not transfer to HJ to play basketball...And the sad thing is YOU KNOW IT TOO.. :o [/quote] It's funny that you "know" about that( hj transfer) but you dont seem to "know" about the 41 applicants whom you believe "might" be coming to Yates for communications.  You look pretty silly here D.V.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229861" timestamp="1339430175"] Just as NO ONE knows why those 41 transfers (allegedly) are coming in to Yates..There IS a MAGNET SCHOOL OF COMMUNICATIONS over there...Could be another reaso other than basketball....Why did the kid come from Central to HJ? FFA program.. ::) [/quote] Nothing ALLEGEDLY about it.  There ARE currently 41 forms that Yates is dealing with.  Care to call me a liar about that also?  Compare the academic desireability of  Central, Westbrook, Yates and HJ.  You lose big time.  You find nothing  curious about a school losing enough students to be downgraded to 3-A and, at the same time, have 41 applicants in the freshman class dealing with a prior athletics participation form coming in from other schools.  Yeah, of course you don't.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229853" timestamp="1339425463"] Why move to Sour Lake? All of the jobs there? Yeah, ok....Get off of Yates' programs back, because you guys are FOUL in SE Texas for not admitting that this kid transferred to play basketball...VERY FOUL...And the sad part about it is that IT NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING....It happens in good programs...Just stop DENYING and COVERING it up!! No one is "investigating" HJ, but just admit it... ::) [/quote] I cant admit something that I cant prove.  But you need to quit trying to justify 41 athletic transfers in a single year because 1 kid transferred to HJ over the last 5 years.  As for things "we all know", then you can also include that Yates has a basketball program that gets "enhanced" a lot more than any other area program and you cannot alter that fact.  As for the "why move to Sour Lake" some people tend to do that if they think it provides their children with better opportunities.  I would know that very well because it is exactly what I did many years ago in spite of the fact that I work in Beaumont.

[quote name="WOSgrad" post="1229838" timestamp="1339423683"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1229834#msg1229834 date=1339423523] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229832#msg1229832 date=1339423257] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1229825#msg1229825 date=1339422564] There is no way that you can believe that 41 kids are transferring into Yates to play basketball...No way...However I know of one that transferred into Hardin Jefferson FOR SURE to play on their basketball team...You wanna dispute that? ::) [/quote] You dont "know" nearly what you think you know.  Until you attended the HJ Silsbee game, you weren't even aware that the kid had transferred to HJ.  You also had no idea there were 41 kids trying to transfer in to Yates  and apparently you dont "know" that the 41 forms are related to prior athletic participation.  Therefore, I am not, nor have I ever been, intimidated by what you "know" and what you "see".  Once again, how utterly ridiculous for you to compare 41 CURRENT TRANSFERS to 1 over 5 years.  But keep it up, because sooner or later you may convince YOURSELF (and only yourself ) that there is the slightest bit of relevance between the two.  [/quote] Oh, but there IS relevance here...You tell me that the kid transferred to HJ for academic purposes (with a straight face, of course) and I will call you a liar to your face...And if he did, SO WHAT...It happens...Thats my point...But you wanna pretend that Hardin Jefferson ALWAYS has kids that are "homegrown" and I am calling BS to that...HJ has a player that transferred there to be a part of a better basketball program than the one he was in....IS THAT NOT THE CASE? [/quote] So you are calling Rodney Saveat a liar. [/quote] Come on Dickie- If you will say it to my face, why not to the face of Mr. Saveat?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229834" timestamp="1339423523"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229832#msg1229832 date=1339423257] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100318.msg1229825#msg1229825 date=1339422564] There is no way that you can believe that 41 kids are transferring into Yates to play basketball...No way...However I know of one that transferred into Hardin Jefferson FOR SURE to play on their basketball team...You wanna dispute that? ::) [/quote] You dont "know" nearly what you think you know.  Until you attended the HJ Silsbee game, you weren't even aware that the kid had transferred to HJ.  You also had no idea there were 41 kids trying to transfer in to Yates  and apparently you dont "know" that the 41 forms are related to prior athletic participation.  Therefore, I am not, nor have I ever been, intimidated by what you "know" and what you "see".  Once again, how utterly ridiculous for you to compare 41 CURRENT TRANSFERS to 1 over 5 years.  But keep it up, because sooner or later you may convince YOURSELF (and only yourself ) that there is the slightest bit of relevance between the two.  [/quote] Oh, but there IS relevance here...You tell me that the kid transferred to HJ for academic purposes (with a straight face, of course) and I will call you a liar to your face...And if he did, SO WHAT...It happens...Thats my point...But you wanna pretend that Hardin Jefferson ALWAYS has kids that are "homegrown" and I am calling BS to that...HJ has a player that transferred there to be a part of a better basketball program than the one he was in....IS THAT NOT THE CASE? [/quote] If that is the case, please tell me how that compares (reasonably, of course) to 41 in a single class in a single calendar year.  And while you are at it, please "lose" your suggestion that the majority of those 41 athletes are coming to participate in the storied football and baseball programs.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229825" timestamp="1339422564"] There is no way that you can believe that 41 kids are transferring into Yates to play basketball...No way...However I know of one that transferred into Hardin Jefferson FOR SURE to play on their basketball team...You wanna dispute that? ::) [/quote] You dont "know" nearly what you think you know.  Until you attended the HJ Silsbee game, you weren't even aware that the kid had transferred to HJ.  You also had no idea there were 41 kids trying to transfer in to Yates  and apparently you dont "know" that the 41 forms are related to prior athletic participation.  Therefore, I am not, nor have I ever been, intimidated by what you "know" and what you "see".  Once again, how utterly ridiculous for you to compare 41 CURRENT TRANSFERS to 1 over 5 years.  But keep it up, because sooner or later you may convince YOURSELF (and only yourself ) that there is the slightest bit of relevance between the two. 

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229822" timestamp="1339421955"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229820#msg1229820 date=1339421841] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229817#msg1229817 date=1339421253] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229812#msg1229812 date=1339419586] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229806#msg1229806 date=1339417920] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=100318.msg1229799#msg1229799 date=1339386871] Wise coached kids that ended up play for Yates.. Saw him coaching his team, Houston Select or Elite, I forget which one is was during last year's GMI in Humble.. He roams around the AAU circuit in Houston and talks to players.. But like I said earlier, Wise knows he cant use transfered players on Varsity the first year, so he follows the rule book.. But Yates is like a junior college.. take most of the local talent and put them on a squad.. Dickie V, I admire you staying loyal to your friend, but he has followed the path to ruining high school basketball in Texas [/quote]Yes, Wise is very active on the summer ball circuit. Wise does not coach his players, its against the rules. [color=red]What you might (maybe seen) (dreamed it)[/color] have seen is a kid who played with Select, attended a different high school and maybe transferred to Yates. Nothing illegal about this. You have NCAA coaches coaching high school players...hmmmm? But back to Yates. The program sells itself. ESPN, PLAYING NATIONALLY RANKED TEAMS, ETC.ETC. BAH-HHH [/quote] And therefore, since the program is successful, whatever they do should never be questioned. [/quote] Wise's program been questioned & investigated. I would not be surprised if the CIA, FBI, The National Alliance, and other groups. Yates has survived it all. Now, my only worry is when Yates beats HJ (IF THEY MAKE IT THAT FAR)  by 60 points! Yates may not survive the onslaught/pressures from this win and may have to discontinue the program.  8) [/quote] Why would you say that?  How could a lowly program from a hick town near Beaumont have any effect on the greatest and most integrity laden program in the country? [/quote] And those are the things that make you go....hmmmmmm!  ;D [/quote] No way-  That small irrelevant school where free lunches are granted to unemployed rice farmers would be like a fly on an elephant.  Besides they don't have time for that at Yates, they have to get those 41 transfer applicants ( for athletic purposes) all enrolled before Dickie can declare them homegrown.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229817" timestamp="1339421253"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100318.msg1229812#msg1229812 date=1339419586] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100318.msg1229806#msg1229806 date=1339417920] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=100318.msg1229799#msg1229799 date=1339386871] Wise coached kids that ended up play for Yates.. Saw him coaching his team, Houston Select or Elite, I forget which one is was during last year's GMI in Humble.. He roams around the AAU circuit in Houston and talks to players.. But like I said earlier, Wise knows he cant use transfered players on Varsity the first year, so he follows the rule book.. But Yates is like a junior college.. take most of the local talent and put them on a squad.. Dickie V, I admire you staying loyal to your friend, but he has followed the path to ruining high school basketball in Texas [/quote]Yes, Wise is very active on the summer ball circuit. Wise does not coach his players, its against the rules. [color=red]What you might (maybe seen) (dreamed it)[/color] have seen is a kid who played with Select, attended a different high school and maybe transferred to Yates. Nothing illegal about this. You have NCAA coaches coaching high school players...hmmmm? But back to Yates. The program sells itself. ESPN, PLAYING NATIONALLY RANKED TEAMS, ETC.ETC. BAH-HHH [/quote] And therefore, since the program is successful, whatever they do should never be questioned. [/quote] Wise's program been questioned & investigated. I would not be surprised if the CIA, FBI, The National Alliance, and other groups. Yates has survived it all. Now, my only worry is when Yates beats HJ (IF THEY MAKE IT THAT FAR)  by 60 points! Yates may not survive the onslaught/pressures from this win and may have to discontinue the program.  8) [/quote] Why would you say that?  How could a lowly program from a hick town near Beaumont have any effect on the greatest and most integrity laden program in the country?  By the way, who "investigated" the program?  Is there any substance to that comment or does it "just sound good"?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229806" timestamp="1339417920"] [quote author=dogs1218 link=topic=100318.msg1229799#msg1229799 date=1339386871] Wise coached kids that ended up play for Yates.. Saw him coaching his team, Houston Select or Elite, I forget which one is was during last year's GMI in Humble.. He roams around the AAU circuit in Houston and talks to players.. But like I said earlier, Wise knows he cant use transfered players on Varsity the first year, so he follows the rule book.. But Yates is like a junior college.. take most of the local talent and put them on a squad.. Dickie V, I admire you staying loyal to your friend, but he has followed the path to ruining high school basketball in Texas [/quote]Yes, Wise is very active on the summer ball circuit. Wise does not coach his players, its against the rules. [color=red]What you might (maybe seen) (dreamed it)[/color] have seen is a kid who played with Select, attended a different high school and maybe transferred to Yates. Nothing illegal about this. You have NCAA coaches coaching high school players...hmmmm? But back to Yates. The program sells itself. ESPN, PLAYING NATIONALLY RANKED TEAMS, ETC.ETC. BAH-HHH [/quote] And therefore, since the program is successful, whatever they do should never be questioned.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229778" timestamp="1339381474"] [quote author=east texas bb link=topic=100318.msg1229776#msg1229776 date=1339380790] Kountzer, you are correct.  High school basketball is losing all of the purity that it has, the charter and magnet schools and UIL and TEA not being able to be on the same page have allowed the AAU "characters" to come in a start a school around a group of kids or for a coach to pretty much say open campus. There is not purity in HS basketball and it will lose its allure as it has already done for some people that use to like high school hoops, and like most things I suspect it will run a cycle and something will happen in a few years to curve the way it is done now because you could easliy put an asterick by many of the State Championships as it has been the last 3-7 years.  High School coaches are worried about the purity of basketball in this state, which cause alot of quality coaches to leave or wait until the UIL finally does something.  Most know about Yates and Kimball, Triple A Academy, these places do not know what they are doing to High School basketball.  They will end up ruining basketball, when basketball was finally gaining a foot hold on football in this State.  [/quote] Once again, as many others have done before you, you're speaking about something you do not know.  As far as Yates goes they are getting a very unfair shake here...People have tried to prove wrong doing, but to no avail, yet they are convicted of cheating in the court of public opinion.  I DESPISE what the AAU has done to influence high school athletics. It will run its course as you said, but its just not fair to finger schools and programs that have not done anything illegal.  I know the Yates head coach very well...Heck he is like family to us...Do any of you know how and why Wise got involved with AAU? HIS SONS...His oldest son, Nic, asked him to be their coach when he was a 9 year old playing for the Houston Hoops...He agreed, coached them, then became a summer fixture with the Hoops, but he never coached ANY YATES PLAYERS in the summer...not one...Yet he has been accused time and again of recruiting...Its just not accurate, and its not fair. [/quote] Why, do you think that so many "ill informed " people ( because only you know what is "really going on") choose to make such a suggestion about Yates?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1229762" timestamp="1339378391"] [quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=100336.msg1229759#msg1229759 date=1339377450] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100336.msg1229757#msg1229757 date=1339377194] [quote author=WOSgrad link=topic=100336.msg1229756#msg1229756 date=1339377116] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=100336.msg1229755#msg1229755 date=1339377059] Narrow minded and extremely biased..... ::) [/quote] Now that is a self portrait if I have ever heard of one. [/quote] Thats your opinion....so what? Who are you? [/quote] One of [size=20pt]MANY!!! [/quote] EVERYONE on this site has their biases....I just don't think that certain people even realize it. [quote author=team first link=topic=100336.msg1229761#msg1229761 date=1339377778] Count me as one of many [/quote] So...again..who are you? I don't think that you guys realize that I don't NEED any of your approval.. ::) [/quote] If you could/would just realize that the reverse of what you just stated is also true.

yes

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229651" timestamp="1339303967"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100336.msg1229644#msg1229644 date=1339299358] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100336.msg1229640#msg1229640 date=1339296431] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100336.msg1229562#msg1229562 date=1339269001] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100336.msg1229525#msg1229525 date=1339247425] Ah, unlike suburban schools who don't cater to the lower socio-eco students, principals who have no choice but to take in troublesome students (somebody has to teach them) and mix them in with students who want to learn, I think should get principal of the year. More challenging. See, a low performing school does not mean students are not learning, it means those schools deal with issues suburban schools don't have to deal with. Kids at Yates are learning but the negative news outweighs the good. [/quote] Dove- Permit me to also suggest to you that the HJ school district has a percentage of students on the free lunch program that would rival the percentage at PA Memorial. [/quote]I'm well aware of the lunch program in public schools.If dad has a bad crop from the rice fields last year, well that family is eligible for....... [/quote] Maybe Dove believes only second and third generation welfare families are deserving of assistance.  After all, the rice farmer was gainfully employed and trying to support himself.  INterestingly enough, Dove recently was taking up for lawyers who didnt have enough business to pay their rent but he looks down upon rice farmers.  Now if it was a single mom who was encouraged by other family members to get pregnant again so she could support the family, it would be much more important to preserve her "self esteem" than to give assistance to a lowly rice farmer. [/quote]Nothing against rice farmers. Just wanted to get it out there that its beyond welfare mothers on the food program at schools like HJ. [/quote] You may have missed the original point.  The words " free lunch program" was shortspeak for economically disadvantaged.  Those types of programs do not discriminate between farmers who had a bad rice crop, second/third generation welfare mothers, incompetent pimps, or drug dealers having a hard time or people who actually cant/won't find a job.  It all comes down to the fact that there are economic hardships everywhere and an economic hardship is just as difficult for a resident of Cinco Ranch school district as it is to someone in inner city Houston.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229640" timestamp="1339296431"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=100336.msg1229562#msg1229562 date=1339269001] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=100336.msg1229525#msg1229525 date=1339247425] Ah, unlike suburban schools who don't cater to the lower socio-eco students, principals who have no choice but to take in troublesome students (somebody has to teach them) and mix them in with students who want to learn, I think should get principal of the year. More challenging. See, a low performing school does not mean students are not learning, it means those schools deal with issues suburban schools don't have to deal with. Kids at Yates are learning but the negative news outweighs the good. [/quote] Dove- Permit me to also suggest to you that the HJ school district has a percentage of students on the free lunch program that would rival the percentage at PA Memorial. [/quote]I'm well aware of the lunch program in public schools.If dad has a bad crop from the rice fields last year, well that family is eligible for....... [/quote] Maybe Dove believes only second and third generation welfare families are deserving of assistance.  After all, the rice farmer was gainfully employed and trying to support himself.  INterestingly enough, Dove recently was taking up for lawyers who didnt have enough business to pay their rent but he looks down upon rice farmers.  Now if it was a single mom who was encouraged by other family members to get pregnant again so she could support the family, it would be much more important to preserve her "self esteem" than to give assistance to a lowly rice farmer.

[quote name="BADSANTA" post="1229585" timestamp="1339276750"] If you put the best playersnin SETX on one team, they stool wouldn't beat Yates. Silsbee nor HJ will have a chance vs Yates. I think it could be better for Silsbee to come in second in district and play Yates if they make it to Regionals. Yates will be better this year than last. Silsbee will have AWESOME team but they just don't have enough size. The only way a 3A team beats Yates is if Dallas Lincoln, Skyline, or Lancaster drop to 3A. [/quote] Why no response on the golf match?

Dickie tends to depart conversations when confronted with facts that cannot be refuted.  He normally just calls them trash and proceeds to infer that he, somehow, is more knowledgeable.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1229525" timestamp="1339247425"] Ah, unlike suburban schools who don't cater to the lower socio-eco students, principals who have no choice but to take in troublesome students (somebody has to teach them) and mix them in with students who want to learn, I think should get principal of the year. More challenging. See, a low performing school does not mean students are not learning, it means those schools deal with issues suburban schools don't have to deal with. Kids at Yates are learning but the negative news outweighs the good. [/quote] Dove- Permit me to also suggest to you that the HJ school district has a percentage of students on the free lunch program that would rival the percentage at PA Memorial.