stevenash

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386650" timestamp="1363710407"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110076.msg1386610#msg1386610 date=1363705772] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385757#msg1385757 date=1363363839] AAA won State within the rules of UIL, period. Just as Mumford reached State, within the rules. I don't see a huge difference in either programs. yes, AAA has a larger coverage. But YES Prep out of Houston and many other inner city charter schools have the same area coverage and[color=red] CAN'T COMPETE[/color] at a high level. [/quote] Those who, as you say, can't compete" probably cannot because they adhere to the rules and did not organize for the sake of basketball proficiency. [/quote]Within the boundaries of staying within the rules, both Mumford and AAA are similar.  ;) [/quote] Dove- Do you have any idea why people booed when Triple A got their trophy?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1385757" timestamp="1363363839"] AAA won State within the rules of UIL, period. Just as Mumford reached State, within the rules. I don't see a huge difference in either programs. yes, AAA has a larger coverage. But YES Prep out of Houston and many other inner city charter schools have the same area coverage and[color=red] CAN'T COMPETE[/color] at a high level. [/quote] Those who, as you say, can't compete" probably cannot because they adhere to the rules and did not organize for the sake of basketball proficiency.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386472" timestamp="1363644026"] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110312.msg1386449#msg1386449 date=1363642466] [quote author=pallacanestro link=topic=110312.msg1386413#msg1386413 date=1363637050] "Those without morals see no wrong." That is what I have learned from my short time on this board. [/quote]And then there are those "who think they have more  morals"  than others. Thats what I have learned since being a member on this board!!  ;) [/quote] ;D ;D ;D My thoughs EXACTLY! +1 for you!! ;) [/quote] Does saying " Those without morals see no wrong" automatically make the author one who thinks he has more morals?  One more thing- is it moral to support something that tries to appear moral when it really isnt?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386440" timestamp="1363641320"] I'm beginning to think that the urban school is being accused far too unjustly than their rural school counterpart  in this situation. And frankly, there isn't a big gap between the two school's academic and athletic mission.  ;) [/quote] Not concerned with the mission.  Mr. Obama's "mission" was to cut the debt in half and have unemployment at 5% by now and have the Muslim world like us better.  Is the urban school not guilty of what is being suggested?  I cant understand why some such strident believers in equity and fairness when it comes to life in general and move in the opposite direction when it comes to public school athletics.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386460" timestamp="1363643334"] From 1978-2002 when Lincoln closed its doors they won 7 state titles and during that span BISD has won 3 (2 @ Hebert, 1 @ Ozen)...Should they have had more? Absolutely, yes... 8) [/quote] Hmmm- Didnt you just say in another post that victories were irrelevant?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386444" timestamp="1363641829"] I will try this just ONE MORE TIME....BEAUMONT HAS HAD MORE TALENT THAN SILSBEE SINCE 1978! I said NOTHING about the wins and losses or state appearances, and even at that Beaumont STILL has more... I said BISD HAS HAD MORE TALENTED PLAYERS since 1978 (last 35 years) which was the ORIGINAL question! It is that simple..... ::) [/quote] How many Beaumont players were you observing and evaluating 25 to 35 years ago?

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386442" timestamp="1363641737"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110312.msg1386355#msg1386355 date=1363627800] Lets assume that high school basketball coach A, is an AAU coach during the time that high school basketball is not played.  Lets further assume that he is a really nice guy and the kids on the AAU team (that was assembled, not assigned or drafted) really like playing for him.  "Suddenly" the kids decide that they would like to play for him during the regular high school season and transfer to the school where he coaches.  Needless to say, anyone playing AAU basketball is very likely an above average player and those transfer ins provide that coach with more above average players than high school programs where the AAU coaching activity does not occur.  Would anyone consider this an unfair advantage or a method of skirting the intent/spirit of the rules? So sad that you fully understand the difference but make attempts to paint them as equal.  Answer this question that I have asked several times.  Who has the advantage, the school that brings in a 15 year old D-1 prospect ( not one, but several) or the school that accepts a 7 year old who is a "sure thing" when he gets in high school? In another instance, lets suppose that a school district gets a majority of its students ( all students, not basketball players) transferred in while still in elementary school ( at this point, nobody knows if any will be high school stars). rather than when they are of varisty age and have developed their respective games. This school develops its own players and hoped for success in basketball.  Is this any different when compared to the first scenario?  It seems as the Dove doesnt think so. [/quote] In your 1st "instance" you're referring to Mumford and AAA, right? In your 2nd "instance" you are once again to referring to the same schools, right? Seems both schools apply to the same rules. ::) [/quote]

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386446" timestamp="1363641924"] Stevenash probably thinks "Jim Crow" means seperate but equal... ::) ::) [/quote]\ Good work Dickie.  Now see if you think you can make that racist remark somehow attributable to me.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386414" timestamp="1363637170"] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=110129.msg1384593#msg1384593 date=1363011570] Since Im a Silsbee native I will break it down. Silsbee may have had the best talent overall in SETX over the last 35 years next to PA Lincoln. Silsbee has never been able to get over the hump to win state. I have seen Silsbee teams that have had 3 Allstate players at one time come up short. If these two have the talent to make their teammates better amd keep those grades up, who knows. I wish them the best of luck and ill be sure to catch a game or two. If they can win state is a very tough question to answer since I have nothing to compare to yet. [/quote] SECOND behind PA Lincoln??? NO sir, they are not...You ever hear of a Beaumont ISD school called Hebert? The one that actually won a state title or two? They had more talent than Silsbee...So has Central over that time span and Westbrook too...Talent is Silsbee? Absolutely, yes...MORE than the BISD schools...NO WAY. [/quote] Perhaps it would be interesting to see how Silsbee has fared in recent years against all of these superior talented Beaumont schools.  I'll bet  you might be  surprised.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386409" timestamp="1363636704"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110076.msg1386404#msg1386404 date=1363636447] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110076.msg1386397#msg1386397 date=1363635891] One program happens to be a tad bit more "urban" than the other....Less "republican", if you will..... ::) ::) ::) [/quote] Dickie- Only you wants to insert racism into the conversation.  The discussion is how the players are acquired/developed regardless of political persuasion or skin color.  Sorry, but there simply is no comparison and your "pedigree, royalty, and whatever else you wish to claim" has NO BEARING whatsoever on this. [/quote] Actually thats not it either...What Dove is talking about is you being OK with one teams method of "acquisition" as you call it, and not ok with the other.  Are you saying there are NO republicans that are black? (i.e. Conde Rice, Colin Powell, etc) or are you saying there are no whites living in the urban areas of the US? Looks like I didn't insert race into this, but YOU did... ;) [/quote Only you are going to believe that it was me that inserted race.  You have done it hundreds of times on this board( and we both know what you are referring to when you say one team is more urban than the other- try harder) and you wont get away with it plus I can argue these things with you ad infinitum so bring it on.  I am just shocked that you think anyone (other than Dove, of course) believes that there is any comparison at all between Mumford and Triple A. ( of course, you know it as well and are trying to make it appear otherwise but your contention has zero credibility. Where did I say that there are no Republicans that are black.  I didnt, of course,  You did.  Therefore, it was you, once again inserting race.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386410" timestamp="1363636924"] OK, so how is it fair to assume that Coach "A" in your example is trying to gain some competitive advantage by coaching AAU in the summer? Yet it is OK for some communities to POSSIBLY persuade kids from other communities to become a part of the local program from the elementary years? Is that not gaining an "unfair" advantage over the communities that do not have that luxury? [/quote] Little Dribblers programs are intended to legitimately teach children the game and to keep them out of trouble.  I want to ask you this.  If the people in my neighborhood get together and decide to establish a program, why cant they do that in your community?  And finally, I once again ask you whether or not the true advantage gained comes when somebody "secures" an existing D-1 prospect or that good looking 7 year old?

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386397" timestamp="1363635891"] One program happens to be a tad bit more "urban" than the other....Less "republican", if you will..... ::) ::) ::) [/quote] Dickie- Only you wants to insert racism into the conversation.  The discussion is how the players are acquired/developed regardless of political persuasion or skin color.  Sorry, but there simply is no comparison and your "pedigree, royalty, and whatever else you wish to claim" has NO BEARING whatsoever on this.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386399" timestamp="1363636049"] I would say its similar to the "little dribblers" [s]recruiting[/s] errr, I mean basketball program.... ::) ::) [/quote] Dickie- You are wrong- you know you are wrong-(but you are determined to defend them)= but thats ok-  Lets assume I am one of those evil little dribblers coaches (and I was for many years)  I NEVER brought a player to the league from out of my community and, if he didnt live in the community he was NOT ALLOWED to participate.  PLease tell me how that compares to the Triple A, Yates, Madison situations.  Also, are you better able to evaluate the talent of a varsity player at age 15 or at age 7?( realism and not insulting anyones intelligence will be appreciated in your response)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386388" timestamp="1363634273"] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1386365#msg1386365 date=1363630133] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1386349#msg1386349 date=1363626903] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1386341#msg1386341 date=1363625303] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1386338#msg1386338 date=1363624889] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110076.msg1386307#msg1386307 date=1363620339] Glad to hear that.  All thats left now is for you to become a Republican. [/quote]But I also have no problem with AAA's program  ;D [/quote] Of course you don't. [/quote] Hmmm? May I assume you have NO problem with Mumford, but maybe a slight problem with AAA'S program? [/quote] Well thank you captain obvious. [/quote] Interesting, I don't have a problem with either program but it appears or at least you seem to imply one program may be different. [/quote] And you are implying they are the same?

Lets assume that high school basketball coach A, is an AAU coach during the time that high school basketball is not played.  Lets further assume that he is a really nice guy and the kids on the AAU team (that was assembled, not assigned or drafted) really like playing for him.  "Suddenly" the kids decide that they would like to play for him during the regular high school season and transfer to the school where he coaches.  Needless to say, anyone playing AAU basketball is very likely an above average player and those transfer ins provide that coach with more above average players than high school programs where the AAU coaching activity does not occur.  Would anyone consider this an unfair advantage or a method of skirting the intent/spirit of the rules? In another instance, lets suppose that a school district gets a majority of its students ( all students, not basketball players) transferred in while still in elementary school ( at this point, nobody knows if any will be high school stars). rather than when they are of varisty age and have developed their respective games. This school develops its own players and hoped for success in basketball.  Is this any different when compared to the first scenario?  It seems as the Dove doesnt think so.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386349" timestamp="1363626903"] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1386341#msg1386341 date=1363625303] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1386338#msg1386338 date=1363624889] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110076.msg1386307#msg1386307 date=1363620339] Glad to hear that.  All thats left now is for you to become a Republican. [/quote]But I also have no problem with AAA's program  ;D [/quote] Of course you don't. [/quote] Hmmm? May I assume you have NO problem with Mumford, but maybe a slight problem with AAA'S program? [/quote] Surely you are not going to suggest that there is little difference in the manner and timing of how their respective players are "acquired"?

Glad to hear that.  All thats left now is for you to become a Republican.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386260" timestamp="1363576276"] [quote author=Coach Sodek link=topic=110076.msg1386259#msg1386259 date=1363576134] Yes sir BlueDove.  We would probably have less than 100 kids in our whole school (PK3-12) if not for transfers from surrounding communities.    That is the truth.  It has pretty much always been that way but it has increased some since the addition of the high school in th early 2000's. [/quote] Thanks coach!!  ;) [/quote] Dove- Just so you cant get away with what you are trying to get away with, those transfers come to the school at an early age, well ahead of the time when one has any idea if the young man will be a basketball player or not.  Hence, they develop their own rather than acquiring them after it is well known that they AAU stars or d-1 prospects.  I am a little shocked that you would try to suggest there is anything analogous in the slightest to what Triple A, Yates and Madison do as compared to Mumford.

[quote name="mytwocents" post="1386180" timestamp="1363535492"] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110159.msg1386172#msg1386172 date=1363533735] You CAN'T answer THAT question, yet you are sure that all of those kids are "homegrown"? Sounds shady to me... ::) [/quote] Are you suggesting that they are not home grown?? [/quote] He isnt sure.  It's simply a way to evade the well known circumstances of a few schools.

[quote name="mfd814" post="1386182" timestamp="1363535943"] Appreciate your post Coach Sodek, but what did your statement "we're still the public school champions" mean ?    And what is your opinion of AAA being boo'd ? [/quote] Not sure if the coach will read and respond.  However, I would like to.  My guess is that he is claiming that they wwere the public school champion if one were not to count charter schools as public schools ( perhaps suggesting that the two are put together in a different manner)  I would also suggest that the booing was not at the players but rather at those responsible for the manner in which that "oganization" was assembled.  I suspect that he believes, as I do, that, the spirit/intent of some rules were violated.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386172" timestamp="1363533735"] You CAN'T answer THAT question, yet you are sure that all of those kids are "homegrown"? Sounds shady to me... ::) [/quote] Nothing shady at all.  Apparently you didnt read the long post of the Mumford coach or you are suggesting he is not telling the truth.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386173" timestamp="1363533940"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110076.msg1386170#msg1386170 date=1363533390] [quote author=Dick Vitale link=topic=110076.msg1386167#msg1386167 date=1363530527] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1385841#msg1385841 date=1363377554] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385837#msg1385837 date=1363376898] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385810#msg1385810 date=1363371899] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385771#msg1385771 date=1363365943] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385733#msg1385733 date=1363355705] [quote author=pallacanestro link=topic=110076.msg1385701#msg1385701 date=1363319120] Bluedove, how do you know so much about AAA, mclure, and the director from notre dame? Would it happen to be from experiences you had with them at AAU? Corruption in HS basketball is due to AAU and parents who want to shop their children around. I remember a certain guard from the Houston area that later played at Arizona...how many high schools did he attend before settling down? [/quote] How do I know them? Various avenues other than the AAU circuit  ;) Do you really want to debate HS vs AAU with me? Do you really want to[color=red] compare[/color] the behind scenes in HS and AAU with me? You may not want to do that, trust me!! [/quote] WOW, right out of DickieV's tactics manual - right down to the plea, "trust me." ::) [/quote]It should be. The same man that taught me, taught Dickie too!! [/quote] [b]It's a shame that neither you nor DickieV picked up the pure "Class" that your mentor had. :([/b][/quote] Ouch!! [/quote] FIRST of all, how in the HECK did I get put in this negative connotation and SECOND do you have any CLUE who the mentor that you speak of is? Just want clarity before before I dig in your hindside.... >:( [/quote] I think self proclaimed "basketball royalty" may have something to do with the connotation. [/quote] That had NOTHING to do with what the discussion was about... ::)...Besdies< I was in AGREEMENT with what was said about Triple A Academy aside from the fact that the classless act of booing those kids occured...I AGREE that they had no business in Class A UIL...But once again.. ::) ::) [/quote] They also have NO BUSINESS acquiring their roster as they do and competing in UIL at any level.

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386165" timestamp="1363530101"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110159.msg1386159#msg1386159 date=1363527505] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110159.msg1386139#msg1386139 date=1363493416] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110159.msg1385764#msg1385764 date=1363364745] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110159.msg1385762#msg1385762 date=1363364068] [quote author=CRUSHCOACH link=topic=110159.msg1385719#msg1385719 date=1363350281] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110159.msg1384987#msg1384987 date=1363131970] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=110159.msg1384971#msg1384971 date=1363130312] For schools like Lincoln, Silsbee, Kountze, and Hebert you could form 4 different starting 5 and still be close to right. Lots of talent in the school sysystems. Who was that exchange student back in the day for PNG that.shot 3's like layupz? [/quote]Y [/quote]PNG had an exchange student?  Hmmmmm!!! [/quote] Yes, a very appropriate comparison to Yates and Triple A.  Good inference, Dove [/quote]And lets not forget 1A Mumford High  ;) [/quote] Yes, the school who had 8 of their first nine players developed in their system since grade school. [/quote] So was the ONE move in a difference maker? ::) 8) [/quote] I cant answer that question.  But if he was, he was only one and not a collection of D-1 prospects who "just happened" to enroll at the same school.  (and there also werent 40 transfer in requests)

[quote name="Dick Vitale" post="1386167" timestamp="1363530527"] [quote author=mytwocents link=topic=110076.msg1385841#msg1385841 date=1363377554] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385837#msg1385837 date=1363376898] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385810#msg1385810 date=1363371899] [quote author=usedtobe link=topic=110076.msg1385771#msg1385771 date=1363365943] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110076.msg1385733#msg1385733 date=1363355705] [quote author=pallacanestro link=topic=110076.msg1385701#msg1385701 date=1363319120] Bluedove, how do you know so much about AAA, mclure, and the director from notre dame? Would it happen to be from experiences you had with them at AAU? Corruption in HS basketball is due to AAU and parents who want to shop their children around. I remember a certain guard from the Houston area that later played at Arizona...how many high schools did he attend before settling down? [/quote] How do I know them? Various avenues other than the AAU circuit  ;) Do you really want to debate HS vs AAU with me? Do you really want to[color=red] compare[/color] the behind scenes in HS and AAU with me? You may not want to do that, trust me!! [/quote] WOW, right out of DickieV's tactics manual - right down to the plea, "trust me." ::) [/quote]It should be. The same man that taught me, taught Dickie too!! [/quote] [b]It's a shame that neither you nor DickieV picked up the pure "Class" that your mentor had. :([/b][/quote] Ouch!! [/quote] FIRST of all, how in the HECK did I get put in this negative connotation and SECOND do you have any CLUE who the mentor that you speak of is? Just want clarity before before I dig in your hindside.... >:( [/quote] I think self proclaimed "basketball royalty" may have something to do with the connotation.

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="1386139" timestamp="1363493416"] [quote author=Stevenash link=topic=110159.msg1385764#msg1385764 date=1363364745] [quote author=BLUEDOVE3 link=topic=110159.msg1385762#msg1385762 date=1363364068] [quote author=CRUSHCOACH link=topic=110159.msg1385719#msg1385719 date=1363350281] [quote author=Honest Abe link=topic=110159.msg1384987#msg1384987 date=1363131970] [quote author=BADSANTA link=topic=110159.msg1384971#msg1384971 date=1363130312] For schools like Lincoln, Silsbee, Kountze, and Hebert you could form 4 different starting 5 and still be close to right. Lots of talent in the school sysystems. Who was that exchange student back in the day for PNG that.shot 3's like layupz? [/quote]Y [/quote]PNG had an exchange student?  Hmmmmm!!! [/quote] Yes, a very appropriate comparison to Yates and Triple A.  Good inference, Dove [/quote]And lets not forget 1A Mumford High  ;) [/quote] Yes, the school who had 8 of their first nine players developed in their system since grade school.