LoneStar League

[FootBFan]

I think what the Lone Star League did tothe Silsbee Silver Team was wrong. Those lil guys went undefeated pre and post season and the league made them forfeit the game only for breaking the manadatory play rule. Those lil guys had 2 players that needed to 2 plays and the other teams coach  Sat on the ball and did not run another play so he protest that those guys didnt get their plays..  And the leagues bylaws dont even state the game should or could be a forfeit but that the coach would get suspended and or fined. "Misconstrued Rules Rule the field" How are they to enforce the rules when the league doesnt abide by them.  NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

[thetragichippy]

Your mad because the league upheld a rule?

[AllSportsMom]

Not in Lonestar anymore but rules used to be if you didn't have your MPR by beginning of 4th qtr then those players started 4th qtr and they didn't come out until met MPR. I find it hard to believe that a 4th qtr had less than 8 plays and 2 kiddos didn't get plays in due to an opposing coach sitting on the ball. Sounds to me like Silsbee coaches hurt the little ones not league.

[FootBFan]

the kids were in the game at the beginnig of the fourth like the rules say. Other teams MPR rep that was on silvers sideline told the coach the other team had players that needed plays. Now when he found out with over two miniutes left in the fourth he stayed in the huddle. You are down by two touchdowns and you stay in the huddle to get delay of game penalty to run out the clock.  Because of this the little boys didnt get the two plays needed because only six plays played in the entire fourth quarter. With that being said. The other team lined up on the side line with time left on the clock as if the game was over. They were protesting before the game ever ended.  Mine you its leagal; but the league handed the silver a forfeit.  Thats NOT a rule in the bylaws. So not upset they upheld a rule, upset that they didnt uphold all rules. You have to play fair. Right?  If a game is a forfeit due to breaking the MPR rule then by all means state it in the rules.  The penalty for breaking the rule says the head coach goes before the board not the team has to forfeit.  Just saying it was fair to the kids that played their lil butts off. And they couldnt go to the superbowl. STJFL rules state the game will be a forfeit and that you cant end a game the way the opposing coach did. I think Lonestar either need to Abide by their own rules are revise them.

[oldandmean]

Wasn't the Silver flag team up by 3 touchdowns at the start of the 4th quarter?  Sounds to me like the Silver flag coach should have been playing his kids way before then, doesn't it? 

[oldschool_50]

[quote name="FootBFan" post="1122267" timestamp="1321659880"]
the kids were in the game at the beginnig of the fourth like the rules say. Other teams MPR rep that was on silvers sideline told the coach the other team had players that needed plays. Now when he found out with over two miniutes left in the fourth he stayed in the huddle. You are down by two touchdowns and you stay in the huddle to get delay of game penalty to run out the clock.  Because of this the little boys didnt get the two plays needed because only six plays played in the entire fourth quarter. With that being said. The other team lined up on the side line with time left on the clock as if the game was over. They were protesting before the game ever ended.  Mine you its leagal; but the league handed the silver a forfeit.  Thats NOT a rule in the bylaws. So not upset they upheld a rule, upset that they didnt uphold all rules. You have to play fair. Right?  If a game is a forfeit due to breaking the MPR rule then by all means state it in the rules.  The penalty for breaking the rule says the head coach goes before the board not the team has to forfeit.  Just saying it was fair to the kids that played their lil butts off. And they couldnt go to the superbowl. STJFL rules state the game will be a forfeit and that you cant end a game the way the opposing coach did. I think Lonestar either need to Abide by their own rules are revise them.
[/quote]

Give me a break.  All of the kids were not in the game at the start of the 4th quarter.  Three of the five that needed plays were.  The other two went in later.  And there were more than six plays in the fourth quarter.  I guess you think we all just fell off the turnip truck.  And wasnt the entire silsbee silver flag coaching staff already on probation?

And what about the poor kids that didn't get all their plays?  None of you even seem concerned in the least about those poor little guys.

Moral of the story, [b]play your kids.[/b]

[FootBFan]

@ olescholl_50 I guess you know all this why because you were there.  Well seems to me. It is more to the story than what you or I say. And it was more than just you and I at the game. But all thats besides the point. If all the RULES are not being followed now isnt it. Maybe the league should be more clear on the rules of the game. Its so funny How nobody wants to address that issue.  And i recall them being up by 16pts.
Moral of the story: Follow your own rules. You made them.

[ECFAN#1]

[quote name="FootBFan" post="1122267" timestamp="1321659880"]
the kids were in the game at the beginnig of the fourth like the rules say. Other teams MPR rep that was on silvers sideline told the coach the other team had players that needed plays. Now when he found out with over two miniutes left in the fourth he stayed in the huddle. You are down by two touchdowns and you stay in the huddle to get delay of game penalty to run out the clock.  Because of this the little boys didnt get the two plays needed because only six plays played in the entire fourth quarter. With that being said. The other team lined up on the side line with time left on the clock as if the game was over. They were protesting before the game ever ended.  Mine you its leagal; but the league handed the silver a forfeit.  Thats NOT a rule in the bylaws. So not upset they upheld a rule, upset that they didnt uphold all rules. You have to play fair. Right?  If a game is a forfeit due to breaking the MPR rule then by all means state it in the rules.  The penalty for breaking the rule says the head coach goes before the board not the team has to forfeit.  Just saying it was fair to the kids that played their lil butts off. And they couldnt go to the superbowl. STJFL rules state the game will be a forfeit and that you cant end a game the way the opposing coach did. I think Lonestar either need to Abide by their own rules are revise them.
[/quote]

You expect LoneStar to list everything that will forfeit the game. Get real you should be able to figure that out. There has to be concenquences and you don't like it. Heard that this was not the first time this team has had this same problem 3 times. Should have fix it.

[the sports guy]

It is not hard to get kids playing time. You just put them in.  If they had a history of not playing kids.....I have a feeling that they knew what might happen, if they did it again. 

"The man" regulates from a far during the regular season. During the playoffs, he sits on the front row......and everyone knows it.

[2bhboys]

How do you kill over 2 min without running 2 plays?  I guess your kid wasn't one of the kids that was shorted his min plays, or you would be addressing the coaches for not playing him and not the league.

[FootBFan]

First let me clarify.. I dont have a kid that plays . And second :You expect LoneStar to list everything that will forfeit the game."  Well, why not the STJFL does.  In any sport you have penaltys for not follwing the rule. They are not made up as you go. You jump offside or illegal motion on the offense. Their is a 10yrd penalty. The rule is already set. So yes, they should state. If the rule is broken it will be a forfeit. What the rule states is The head coach will go before the board for discipline NOT the team forfeit a game. So they enforce a rule but not abide by the others.  Get real.  I guess you all like cheating when its beneficial to you.  For some reason i dont think you all are getting the point. The kids were in the game. At the beginnig of the fourth there were a number of kids on both sides that didnt get their plays. Its just amazing all the other teams did. and one needed the whole eight but only 6 plays played in the fourth. Go figure. And its not about the MPRs its following the rules set in place to give discipline to the game. Evidently you all dont know the leagues rules.

[2bhboys]

You are correct I don't know Lonestars' rules, I coach in TIFI and we have a 15 play min for a 25 player roster... It is my job to check with the monitor during the game and make sure everyone is getting his plays. This past year we incorporated a no huddle offendse, and all of our kids usually had thier plays by the 3rd qtr. In a youth sports program there is NO excuse for them not getting the min plays when the parents are paying for thier child to play... Just today we voted an organization out of our league, because the coaches were caugh cheating to win in a semifinal game. Our league ruled that they should forfit the game, and they sued the league.. These coaches had 2 children who didn't get the min plays, 1 got 4 plays and the other only got 8plays.... It is a shame the adults get involved and try to menipulate the game and now 130 football players, cheerleaders and drillteam will not be allowed to participate in our league next year...

[mwmuck]

The rule being spoken about is the punishment for not getting the kids in at the start of the 4th and doesn't deal with what happens to a coach that doesn't play all of the kids. To begin with, after watching the film at the request of the Silver staff, there were plenty of plays in the fourth to be able to get all of the kids in so the excuse of not having enough plays has been proven untrue. Speaking with the officials that called the game there was nothing illegal that the Maroon team did at any time in the 4th quarter. The woman keeping the mandatory play roster for the Silver team admitted they didn't get their players in. Twice this season the Silver team had been counciled on the proper and mandatory regs dealing with player participation. They were aware of the regs and that they were being watched.

At some point the victory must be in jeopardy for a rule to have teeth. If a suspension was the only penalty available to the Board then a coach could leave his MPR at home and take the suspension to win a big game without subs and sit out the next week against a weaker team. Or a coach that knows he isn't coming back next year could go into a Super Bowl game and not play his subs and the suspension wouldn't mean anything to him and he could still get the win. The victory has to be in jeopardy at any time a coach can benefit from breaking the rules.

Article 12, Sec 1 of the bylaws speaks of final dispensation of all issues belongs to the LJF Board based on their best judgment. The Board voted unanimously to forfeit the game after looking at the facts around the issue.

Coaches can win games and they can lose games for their team. It was the responsibility of the Silver staff to know and follow the rules. They didn't and it cost the team. The disturbing part of this is that the parents weren't upset with the staff that didn't get the kids their plays but with the people that have to enforce the rules. The part that FootBFan isn't speaking about is how the head coach of Silver put out a text to the parents and told them that they weren't playing in the Consolation round and so LJF had to line up another team to play in the final round of the playoffs. A group of kids from Hamshire-Fannett that hadn't had a chance to practice all week showed up and were thrilled to get a chance to play for a big trophy. That trophy lives in H-F now instead of Silsbee because a coaching staff and group of Flag parents interpret the rules the way they want them to be and keep their kids from being able to play football to make a statement. This is the first time a team from Silsbee decided to not show up for a game. They embarrassed a great organization.

I don't use a fake name and I DO know the rules. I helped write them.

Mark Muckleroy
Coaches Representative
Lonestar Junior Football
President
Silsbee Junior Football

[FootBFan]

I am glad to know your name sir. I dont use fake names either . My name is JC Bryant and I am from Woodville. I was there and i said it then and will say it again. BS. Every spectator at that game knows what happend you can put it like you want. You helped make the rules and dont even abide them. Article 9: Sect 5 states: AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FOURTH QUARTER ANY PLAYER THAT HAS NOT RECEIVED HIS MANDATORY PLAY WILL BE PUT INTO THE GAME UNTIL HIS MANDATORY NUMBER OF PLAYS IS REACHED. THIS DOES NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION OFFENSE OR DEFENSE, THE PLAYER MUST GO INTO THE GAME AT WHATEVER SITUATION IS PRESENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE QUARTER. [color=purple]FAILURE TO DO SO WILL BE CONSIDERED A WANTON VIOLATION OF THESE ARTICLES AND COULD SUBJECT THE HEAD COACH TO ACTION FROM THE LJF BOARD.[/[/color]b]. all i have heard and read is what the silver team parents and coaches did or did not do.  What did the league do or didnt do? can u honestly say you all abided by the rules you all set in place. I doubt it. And what if a team stays in the huddle to end the game in the fourth. And protest all the players didnt get their plays. I was there and I know you saw what i saw: They were protesting that game before it ever ended. You play to win the game. OMG they were a bunch of 5-8 year olds. When did the game become about Adults.  Thats why you see so much fighting among parents/coaches/referees on the news and internet when it comes to Lil League ball. Get it together and for future reference. Revise your bylaws

[mwmuck]

What the league did was investigate a violation of the Mandatory Play Rule and make a ruling based on those violations. The violation was admitted to, the MPR form showed the violation, Silver didn't get their kids in, the film showed it and Art 9 sec 5 deals ONLY with what happens to a coach that doesn't put their players in at the 1st of the 4th and not what happens if he refuses to get his players all of their plays. I'm sorry you can't get past that misunderstanding. Every league in this area reacts the same way to a coach violating that rule. TIFI kicked out an entire association for the same violation. Obviously not playing all of the kids on the roster isn't very serious in Woodville but it is everywhere else. Someone standing up for the kids should be asking why Silver didn't get their kids in when they were ahead most of the game. Self-righteous individuals supporting the kids should ask why the adults supervising these children put them into this position when they had already been warned about it twice this season. People that accuse should ask themselves if we should advance a team in the playoffs that violated one of the most important rules over one that played by the rules. Self-proclaimed advocates of the kids would be asking why a bunch of adults held their kids out of the playoff game to make a point. Was that about the kids or about the parents? If you knew half of what you would like to think you do about administration of youth sports you wouldn't have to ask the question "When did the game become about adults?" Adults are the biggest problem in youth sports and always have been. They are the ones that make it about them and then hide behind "its about the kids". Adults are the ones that make the news when winning becomes more important than HOW you win. The Maroon team didn't cause this, Silver did. The rules didn't make this about adults, the Silver staff and parents did. The rules are there to PROTECT the kids from adults that might not let them play in the game. Those adults stepped across the line and put their team into this position even after being warned twice. Then that same staff tells their parents and players that they are NOT going to play in the playoff game. JC, was that about the kids or about the parents? I'm from Silsbee, I founded that organization. These are my teams and it made me sick to my stomach to have to deal with this whole stupid affair.

Lonestar had a staff that violated one of our most fundamental rules, it was admitted to, it was proven on film and paper, the rules governing the investigation and decisions were followed to a tee. If the same situation occurred tomorrow it would be handled the same way. Game over. 

[Gusher]

Very well said.

[FootBFan]

ok shouldnt your rules state as such as the other leagues do.  Their rules specifically states the game will be a forfeit. Yours dont. Its not about the fact the rule was broke but about your bylaws dont state the game should or could be a forefeit. If the coaches/parents new that . Then maybe the rules will be followed downt to a T. There is noway a coach would deliberatelyl break the MPR rule knowing he would be handed a forfeit. Make the facts known!! Thats all i am saying and i sure thats what the silver coach/parents were saying. 

[STiger85]

[quote name="FootBFan" post="1125399" timestamp="1321806118"]
ok shouldnt your rules state as such as the other leagues do.  Their rules specifically states the game will be a forfeit. Yours dont. Its not about the fact the rule was broke but about your bylaws dont state the game should or could be a forefeit. If the coaches/parents new that . Then maybe the rules will be followed downt to a T. [b]There is noway a coach would deliberatelyl break the MPR rule knowing he would be handed a forfeit.[/b] Make the facts known!! Thats all i am saying and i sure thats what the silver coach/parents were saying.
[/quote]

So, if only a suspention was handed down it's ok to break the rule. That's what I get out of this statment. I don't have a dog in this. I have coached in the LJF for five years. I know the rules. As a coach you never ever ever not get your kids plays in. That's just wrong. If you get their plays in you wont have to go through this, and besides that, a kid playing just eight plays is not enough. This is a thread about playing time and the rules about playing time. From reading this thread, it's all on the coaches. They are your problem not the board. They broke a rule for the third time. THREE TIMES. The same rule the coaches broke three times. It's sad that some coaches had to put the LJF board in that poition. And YES I know if I did not play my players their eight plays in a game I was responsible for us getting a forfit.

[mwmuck]

Once again, FootBFan, the assumptions are the problem. Evidently the coach in TIFI had the benefit of knowing it would cost him a forfeit but he did it anyway. People do stuff every day that they know there are rules against and prices to pay for violating them. Also, I wish I knew everything that people are going to do so we could have a rule and punishment already laid out but I've had a hard time knowing what is going to happen next and what sort of lunacy we'll be faced with next week or next year. That's why Art 12, Sec 1 exists. Final dispensation of all problems rests with the Board. Period. We don't have a rule that states what we will do to an Association president that tries to smuggle a 13 year old onto a team but it happened and we had to deal with it. We don't have a written rule that states what we will do when an entire Association board doesn't act when one of their officers has been caught cheating but we have had to deal with it. We have to be able to be flexible because the people that want to stretch, bend or break the rules are coming up with new angles every day and we can't cover every base for every situation. Your idea that the Silver group and parents were just saying that they wanted it in black and white is where it ended up but not where it started. First, it didn't happen. Total denial. Then when the MPR person, (the head coach's wife) stated that Silver didn't get their kids in it turned into the idea that there were only 6 plays run in the whole 4th quarter so they couldn't possibly get them in. Film showed that to be a complete lie. When the opposing MPR showed at least 8 plays in the 4th for one of their players, the coaches accused their MPR person of lying and falsifying her MPR. She is also our Secretary/Treasurer for the Association and we trust her with our legal papers and our bank account so I felt that we could trust her to fill out an MPR properly. Film showed that she had. Then it was the opposing coach's fault, then I was in their corner all year and over and over until they finally came out with the idea that since it isn't in black and white that the team that broke the rules still got to advance. What lesson is that for the kids? Next, if they couldn't get their way then they would quit, take their toys and go home. Another great lesson. I'm sorry it happened. 

The good thing about this, and I'm sure that you will be pleased, is that we no longer have to worry about that whole "I didn't know that I might lose if I broke the rules" thingy. I think everyone everywhere knows what the Lonestar Board will do if you are caught not playing your kids now. Everyone should be pleased. 

[FootBFan]

Why is it so hard for you all to see: If the game is a forfeit. State such in the bylaws. The rules dont say the game is a forfeit.  And if this coach did this three times. Then hey it is definitley something wrong with the league. Why you let it go on. shouldnt it have been dealt with before all this. seems like to me you all are only stating what you want to see. I seriously doubt the coach did it three times.  You all are only stating what you have heard. This thread is about Abiding by all the rules for everyone involved.  Whats wrong with the league stating in their bylaws the game will be a forfeit if the  MPR rule is violated? All other leagues state that very fact.  If the rules state suspension then thats what you must abide by. Now if you all cant see the rules were broken by the league and the team i feel for those kids in silsbee. [quote name="STiger85" post="1125476" timestamp="1321811272"]

So, if only a suspention was handed down it's ok to break the rule. That's what I get out of this statment. I don't have a dog in this. I have coached in the LJF for five years. I know the rules. As a coach you never ever ever not get your kids plays in. That's just wrong. If you get their plays in you wont have to go through this, and besides that, a kid playing just eight plays is not enough. This is a thread about playing time and the rules about playing time. From reading this thread, it's all on the coaches. They are your problem not the board. They broke a rule for the third time. THREE TIMES. The same rule the coaches broke three times. It's sad that some coaches had to put the LJF board in that poition. And YES I know if I did not play my players their eight plays in a game I was responsible for us getting a forfit.
[/quote]   

[mwmuck]

OK, I've been talking on too high a level evidently. Lets break this down so that you can understand it.
1) The staff in question was accused early in the season of not playing their players by another team. That team had not followed the rules to make their complaint viable and so it didn't stick. It did cause the Board to warn the Silver staff about the importance of their MPR.
2) I personally asked the Lonestar Secretary to work with the Silver MPR person to make sure they got everything right when they were at HF. They accused her of phoning in their plays to the other team.
3) The staff asked me directly if it was true that they had to have everyone in at the 1st of the 4th. I said yes and that they needed to read the rules or they were going to get bit.
4) The Silsbee board was getting word from some of our own parents that some of the kids on Silver may not be getting their plays. It was denied and again I reminded them that they were being watched and that they needed to have their MPR's straight and by the numbers.
5) Nowhere in the bylaws does it address what happens when you fail to play all of your players. One clause addresses what happens if you fail to get them in at the 1st of the 4th. That is what you seem to be stuck on. There is a difference. We have suspended coaches for not getting their players in at the 1st of the 4th even though they DID get all of their players in before the end of the game. 
6) Your comment that we are only going on what we have heard is obtuse. We have the facts and they were dealt with. I tried to explain them to you. Get over it.
7) The league broke no rules. The Silver staff did but you seem to be OK with that as long as they were allowed to play. The board in Silsbee and the one presiding over Lonestar don't agree with you and I feel that most everyone else reading this doesn't either.

I've tried to explain this to you. I didn't have to but you seemed ill informed and perhaps slow to understand so I thought that hearing from an official voice would help ease your concerns but now you have ventured off into the area where it's obvious you don't want to understand. So, please feel sorry for the kids in Silsbee. They have it hard dealing with such horrible volunteers. They won two Super Bowls and one second place trophy this year out of three divisions. They would have had a Consolation trophy but your team decided that they weren't going to show up and play. No other team was accused by anyone of violating the rules. Just the one you are determined to defend. The other coaches in Silsbee understand why things went down as they did. They played their kids, they followed the rules and had success. If you feel so sorry for the kids in Silsbee then perhaps you need to do the work to form a league, get other affiliations to be able to play games, secure insurance, a site to play at and then do the paperwork, write rules that no one will ever have a problem with, deal with a thousand personalities with a good percentage of them wanting to tell YOU that you are screwing up. Do this and then you can save all of the kids in Silsbee from the people that have already done all of those things for these kids. You can do that or you can sit in the stands or on the 'Net and tell everyone how you would do it if you just had the cajones.   

[FootBFan]

its in the works...

[oldschool_50]

[quote name="FootBFan" post="1124591" timestamp="1321744663"]
First let me clarify.. I dont have a kid that plays . And second :You expect LoneStar to list everything that will forfeit the game."  Well, why not the STJFL does.  In any sport you have penaltys for not follwing the rule. They are not made up as you go. [b]You jump offside or illegal motion on the offense. Their is a 10yrd penalty.[/b] The rule is already set. So yes, they should state. If the rule is broken it will be a forfeit. What the rule states is The head coach will go before the board for discipline NOT the team forfeit a game. So they enforce a rule but not abide by the others.  Get real.  I guess you all like cheating when its beneficial to you.  For some reason i dont think you all are getting the point. The kids were in the game. At the beginnig of the fourth there were a number of kids on both sides that didnt get their plays. Its just amazing all the other teams did. and one needed the whole eight but only 6 plays played in the fourth. Go figure. And its not about the MPRs its following the rules set in place to give discipline to the game. Evidently you all dont know the leagues rules.
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHA.... so whose rules are you quoting this from?  In every league that I know of, jumping off sides or illegal motion is a five yard penalty.  Too funny.

PS [b]Play your kids!!![/b]

[thetragichippy]

[quote name="oldschool_50" post="1125942" timestamp="1321838512"]
[quote author=FootBFan link=topic=91769.msg1124591#msg1124591 date=1321744663]
First let me clarify.. I dont have a kid that plays . And second :You expect LoneStar to list everything that will forfeit the game."  Well, why not the STJFL does.  In any sport you have penaltys for not follwing the rule. They are not made up as you go. [b]You jump offside or illegal motion on the offense. Their is a 10yrd penalty.[/b] The rule is already set. So yes, they should state. If the rule is broken it will be a forfeit. What the rule states is The head coach will go before the board for discipline NOT the team forfeit a game. So they enforce a rule but not abide by the others.  Get real.  I guess you all like cheating when its beneficial to you.  For some reason i dont think you all are getting the point. The kids were in the game. At the beginnig of the fourth there were a number of kids on both sides that didnt get their plays. Its just amazing all the other teams did. and one needed the whole eight but only 6 plays played in the fourth. Go figure. And its not about the MPRs its following the rules set in place to give discipline to the game. Evidently you all dont know the leagues rules.
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHA.... so whose rules are you quoting this from?  In every league that I know of, jumping off sides or illegal motion is a five yard penalty.  Too funny.

PS [b]Play your kids!!![/b]
[/quote]


Thank you!.....

Someone else caught it.......

and BTW.........hats off to mwmuck......I would have been done after the FIRST detailed and VERY clear explanation.

[FootBFan]

It was just a figure of speech. Point is you know what the penalty is... before you jump offside.. Really is it that funny  i think not.