The BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL - PASSED THE HOUSE

[UT alum]

5 hours ago, OlDawg said:

Let me see if I can answer without falling out of my chair laughing at the awesome liberal education you received as a teasipper. 🤣

• The U.S. imports 60% of it's fruit and 40% of it's vegetables. The major importer is Mexico.
• The U.S. issues roughly 500,000 H2A Visas (temporary farm worker visas) each year. There is no maximum allowable, and the number is set based on requests from the U.S. agricultural businesses themselves, so it fluctuates.
• There are approximately 2.4 million farmworkers employed each year in the U.S. Thirty percent are U.S. citizens, the aforementioned 500,000+ are here legally, which leaves about 1 million--give or take--illegal migrants.

It would take an awful lot of crop harvesting to make up for a negative cost of $65,000 per illegal immigrant to even come close to breaking even on outlays. I think the cost of your fruits and vegetables would be more impacted by a 10% tariff than any loss of harvesting due to lack of illegal labor. Still, that's a heckuva lot of guacamole.

How come you don’t get beat up for not citing sources? They tear my ass up on here when I present unsourced information.

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[OlDawg]

22 minutes ago, UT alum said:

How come you don’t get beat up for not citing sources? They tear my ass up on here when I present unsourced information.

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No idea. I assume they know by reading my posting history that I research all data, and don’t just trust media of either side without question.

Have at it. As mentioned, the cost basis of $65,000–with further breakdowns—was posted already in the SCOTUS birthright citizenship discussion.

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[thetragichippy]

1 hour ago, UT alum said:

How come you don’t get beat up for not citing sources? They tear my ass up on here when I present unsourced information.

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Come on man.......This is a pro-immigration propaganda organization.

 

New American Economy and the American Immigration Council have merged to form a unified organization that will empower newcomers from arrival to citizenship to full belonging in community. Together, we will strive to build a stronger America for all.

[OlDawg]

2 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

Come on man.......This is a pro-immigration propaganda organization.

 

New American Economy and the American Immigration Council have merged to form a unified organization that will empower newcomers from arrival to citizenship to full belonging in community. Together, we will strive to build a stronger America for all.

I didn’t care much either way. It’s very old data. The data I posted is from April 2024 & Jan. 2025.

With a wife who can’t speak or do much, I read a lot while watching her. Most of the info I post I’ve already researched well before, and have to go back and find the/a source. Similar to the nonprofit excise tax issue earlier in the thread.

Usually, it leads back to official data, or a study from someone like Cato, Baker Institute, Kaiser, or those type folks. Basically, a source typically considered ‘neutral’ and trustworthy.

Once a technical person, always a technical person. I want to see the data. It’s the engineering in me even in retirement.

Incidentally, I’ve always felt it’s not what a man knows that makes him smart. It’s how well he knows how to find the answers to what he doesn’t know. 😊

[thetragichippy]

15 hours ago, OlDawg said:

It’s how well he knows how to find the answers to what he doesn’t know. 😊

Exactly - With so much media out there, one can always find a publication to support their belief.  I'm conservative but not a big fan of Newsmax, because it leans way to far right. 

[UT alum]

17 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

Come on man.......This is a pro-immigration propaganda organization.

 

New American Economy and the American Immigration Council have merged to form a unified organization that will empower newcomers from arrival to citizenship to full belonging in community. Together, we will strive to build a stronger America for all.

So? You all quote anti-immigration propaganda. There are two sides to issues in a dynamic system. That’s how we grow. Debate and problem solving. There are many perspectives in a dynamic system, hence a more liberal immigration system brings some of the best intellectual talent in the world here and contributes greatly to innovation, an area we lead the world in. For now. Once Weasel snuffs that out, we’ll have a hard time recovering.

[baddog]

40 minutes ago, UT alum said:

So? You all quote anti-immigration propaganda. There are two sides to issues in a dynamic system. That’s how we grow. Debate and problem solving. There are many perspectives in a dynamic system, hence a more liberal immigration system brings some of the best intellectual talent in the world here and contributes greatly to innovation, an area we lead the world in. For now. Once Weasel snuffs that out, we’ll have a hard time recovering.

You know, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the illegals are smarter than our college kids. The Department of Education has sure failed us. We have college kids who are illiterate and those who don’t know how many moons earth has, how many dimes in a dollar, 15% of 100….just to name a few. I have to admit, though, that lots of the illegals might ask what exactly is a moon.

Sure wish you felt that way about Americans being murdered in the womb. How many of those millions would have been another Lincoln or Einstein. Too bad that doesn’t exist in your dynamic system.

[thetragichippy]

1 hour ago, UT alum said:

So? You all quote anti-immigration propaganda. There are two sides to issues in a dynamic system. That’s how we grow. Debate and problem solving. There are many perspectives in a dynamic system, hence a more liberal immigration system brings some of the best intellectual talent in the world here and contributes greatly to innovation, an area we lead the world in. For now. Once Weasel snuffs that out, we’ll have a hard time recovering.

We ALMOST agree - This liberal immigration system over the last 4 years brought more illegal crossings that I believe any administration has allowed....and we both know if you are sneaking across the border, 99.9% of those are not intellectual talent......

Trump is for allowing great talent into the country of they come here through the proper process, I I support that......What he does not want, and I agree with,  is someone coming over legally and protesting America and causing havoc in our universities while they reap the benefits of the USA. That is a distraction to the other 90% of students who want to learn. 

[OlDawg]

2 hours ago, UT alum said:

So? You all quote anti-immigration propaganda. There are two sides to issues in a dynamic system. That’s how we grow. Debate and problem solving. There are many perspectives in a dynamic system, hence a more liberal immigration system brings some of the best intellectual talent in the world here and contributes greatly to innovation, an area we lead the world in. For now. Once Weasel snuffs that out, we’ll have a hard time recovering.

Here’s you some data. Read this one. Then, come back and tell me how great the education level of the recent influx of illegal immigrants is…

Hint:

You’ll find a number that says 43% don’t even have a high school education, and 27% ONLY have a high school education level. That’s why they’re a drain on the system from estimates of $600 Billion to $1.15 Trillion. Not because they’re all ‘bad people.’ It’s because they can’t support themselves with that education level.

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[OlDawg]

4 hours ago, thetragichippy said:

Exactly - With so much media out there, one can always find a publication to support their belief.  I'm conservative but not a big fan of Newsmax, because it leans way to far right. 

Socially more liberal. Not crazy liberal. Just more of a be and let be if it does no harm kind of liberal. Who someone sleeps with isn't any concern of mine. In fact, Government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all. Government should stay out of our personal lives. Fiscal conservative. Minimal Government & Federalist/State's Rights. Consider myself more of a libertarian than anything. I'm actually pro-immigration. But, not as long as the U.S. is a welfare state. Until that changes, immigrants should be self-supporting. They should assimilate and blend. Bring their culture and celebrate it. But realize they are Americans above all now if they choose to stay.

Not too much to ask I don't think. I gave some good years of my life to protect just those beliefs. Was proud and honored to do it. Sadly, I wonder if it was worth it nowadays.

[thetragichippy]

1 hour ago, OlDawg said:

Socially more liberal. Not crazy liberal. Just more of a be and let be if it does no harm kind of liberal. Who someone sleeps with isn't any concern of mine. In fact, Government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all. Government should stay out of our personal lives. Fiscal conservative. Minimal Government & Federalist/State's Rights. Consider myself more of a libertarian than anything. I'm actually pro-immigration. But, not as long as the U.S. is a welfare state. Until that changes, immigrants should be self-supporting. They should assimilate and blend. Bring their culture and celebrate it. But realize they are Americans above all now if they choose to stay.

Not too much to ask I don't think. I gave some good years of my life to protect just those beliefs. Was proud and honored to do it. Sadly, I wonder if it was worth it nowadays.

We think the same. The social stuff I don't care about as long as it don't hurt me.  The only thing social I don't like is a couple years ago I took the family to Universal Studio's in Florida. You could not walk 200' without selling weed. While I don't care about weed and don't think it is a big deal, I just wish it would stay away from kid friendly places.