baddog

[quote name="venom33" post="745165" timestamp="1263713080"] A Cheating Culture in Baseball By Keith Dobkowski, MLB News Writer December 4, 2004 A cheating culture has always existed in Baseball.  And the shock over the BALCO steroid scandal should be redirected as a shock over our shock.  Baseball has fooled us before and certainly will fool us again.   One look at baseball’s greatest players and you will find cheating.  The list now includes Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield.  They join the likes of Ty Cobb, Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Babe Ruth, Rollie Fingers, Gaylord Perry, Willie Mays, 1919 White Sox, 1970s Pirates, Hank Aaron, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, Jose Canseco, Ken Caminiti, George Brett, and dozens of others. The cheating includes hall of fame players and champion teams.   It is done for advantage, giving the player or team any possible leg up on the competition.   Whether it is an MVP injecting a steroid as Canseco, Caminiti and now Giambi have admitted...   Or scuffing or spitting on a ball as hall of fame players Perry and Fingers did…   Or corking a bat like homerun sluggers Sosa and Ruth… Using too much pine tar like 3,000 career hits George Brett… Taking Andro and hitting 70 homeruns in a season as Mark McGuire did… Using Cocaine before games like the 1970s Pittsburgh Pirates… Throwing a World Series like the 1919 White Sox and Shoeless Joe Jackson… Betting on Baseball like Pete Rose… Using amphetamines for energy like Mays and Aaron did… Or using ‘the cream’ and ‘the clear’ as Bonds and Sheffield may have… Many of the stories we have heard such as Ty Cobb sharpening his cleats to injure other players while stealing a base.  Or Tim Raines sliding in certain manner to avoid breaking the vile of cocaine he kept in his pocket for a mid-game energy boost have become a part of baseball lore. In a way we welcome the cheating.  We overlooked Andro in the slugging summer of 1998 when McGuire and Sosa took on the homerun record.  We overlooked Jose Lima throwing batting practice balls during a game to Sosa in the last weeks of the ‘98 season.  Lima and therefore Sosa cheated and we did not care.   We celebrated the long ball. Furthermore there is hypocrisy.  [b]It praises Curt Schillling’s bravery in game six against the Yankees, yet turns around and places the tainting of the game upon Giambi’s shoulders.  Both players used performance enhancers.  A pain killing injection allowed Schilling to pitch and another injection allowed Giambi to hit.  Where is the thick red line?[/b] Players have always used performance enhancers to gain a benefit.  It is not to dismiss the BALCO mess, but to realize that baseball welcomes a cheating culture and knows it will survive.   To properly judge BALCO and the players it is more important to put everything in context.   Is it just one player receiving a benefit, or is it a benefit bestowed on the entire league.  That leads us to declare that BALCO, while wrong, is a minor infraction when looking at the history of the game. When judging infractions we must look at the game and the effects of the infraction.  A corked bat and a spitball both give the player using it a huge advantage against their opponents.  The player who cheats is the one who benefits.  And unless everyone spits or corks there is not an even field.   In comparison, today we are in a juiced era where most players are using some form of performance enhancer.  Due the widespread use the field becomes level.  And placed in context, Ruth and Aaron never faced pitchers who were on performance enhancers and the juice, as Bonds and today’s stars have.   Bonds’ numbers therefore become legitimate. The biggest infraction that baseball has seen is gambling.   Gambling affects the roots of the game.  How it is called, how it is managed and how much effort a players gives?  The Chicago White Sox of 1919 and Pete Rose took advantage for their own financial benefit and placed the basis of the game at risk.  A risk not seen by juice, spit or cork… Shockingly most Americans think Pete Rose should be reinstated, put in the hall of fame and even allowed to manage again.  Yet Rose may be the biggest cheater of them all.  Rose put the integrity of the game on the line as he managed and bet on baseball at the same time.  Yet we forgive and act with shock that he is not in the hall. As the BALCO scandal continues and looks to do so for the next year or two, newscasters, especially those unwise to baseball like 20/20’s Martin Bashir, will look to profit as well off the BALCO story.  Baseball fans understand that cheating has long been part of the game.  From Ruth to Rose to Bonds to whoever is next, cheating will exist in baseball.   [/quote] Very good post venom. I was aware of most of these supposed cheating scandals and I think it [b]laughable[/b] that you compare the spitball, corking, and scuffing to [b]injecting illegal substances[/b]. It's funny that you did bring up lots of these, because you should see that most were dealt with and persons were held responsible. What happenbed to George Brett's ''pine tar'' homerun? It was taken away because he had the tar one inch too high on the bat. I actually saw this game and only Billy Martin could have caught that. Nevertheless, it didn't count. What happened to Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe, the eight men out,....they were held accountable and banned from baseball. That's the first I have heard of Aaron and Mayes cheating...seriously. No era is “tainted” and they all are “tainted;” all one can do is make conclusions about the cheaters who get caught. “Everyone should be punished” is just a silly cop out; by that standard, no punishment for anyone is fair unless every single person guilty of the crime is apprehended. In the end, that’s all your “argument” boils down to: it’s unfair for one cheater to suffer the consequences of his cheating if any one else got away with theirs. The person who escapes justice sets the standard. Lots of crimes go unpunished, but it is not unfair to punish those who get caught.

[quote name="baseball25" post="745134" timestamp="1263703610"] [b]Did I ever say you got throw 90 to be good all I am saying is the game has change[/b]. That's why I said I've been around guys that took roids and they threw hard but they couldn't throw a strike for nothing and etc. There's might be a player 1 ever 20 yrs like maddux. Bonds might be a prick but he was there to do his job and that was put up numbers and that's what he did. Greatest player of alllll timeeeeee [/quote] No, you laughed and said they threw in the 80s. How was I supposed to take it? No one has ever said that roids make pitchers throw strikes. Like you said, the game has changed. Back then the ball was dead and you could throw spitballs, and if the ball hit the dirt around the plate, they didn't throw it out for a new one. A scuffed ball can do amazing things at any velocity. Babe Ruth had to endure those types of pitches and he still hit them out, without the aid of injecting performance enhancing drugs into his body. Bonds couldn't sniff Babe's jock without them, that's why he did it. He's the greatest cheater of all time.

[quote name="baseball25" post="744660" timestamp="1263616251"] lol babe faced guys [b]throwing 80[/b] lol and faced those guys like every single day, the game has change so much, Bonds was a 5 tool player coming out of ASU, Clemens was a monster at UT, u still got to play the game. I've been around tons of steroids users when i played college ball and u know what it didn't help them one bit, the got stronger but it didn't make them hit the ball, it made them throw harder but they still couldn't get ahead of the batter and throw a first pitch strike, they still couldn't spot up and throw there change up and curveball, you still got to have the ability. [/quote] lol, Walter Johnson, one of the best pitchers of that era, threw 91 mph. Now I know that's not 97 or 98, but you said 80. Strangley enough, Babe had tremendous success against Johnson. Greg Maddux only throws about 88-90, but he throws to spots and has great movement, and he won 4 Cy Youngs in a row. You don't have to throw 95 mph to be successful or tough to hit. These players also played during the ''live ball'' era. I wonder why they call it a live ball....because it moves more for pitchers and travels further for batters. No one has ever said that these players wouldn't have been HR hitters, they just wouldn't have been able to beat Maris' single season record, or even come close to Ruth and Aaron. Yeah, Bonds is a tool alright.  ;D

Babe Ruth had to bat against performance ''diminishers''. It was called a ''scuffed ball'' and the good old ''spitball''. Of course these were used to his advantage when pitching, but it sure wasn't something he injected into his body. All of Babe's homeruns were hit with the pure body that God gave him. Babe liked to drink and he was a womanizer....both of which would contribute to lessening his performance on the field, but he succeeded anyway. Please enlighten me as to what enhancers were around since the beginning of baseball. I'm sick of the hand to eye coordination argument. So you can hit a baseball. If you're not tearing up the batting average department, you won't see the HOF. Mcgwire hit a whopping [b].263 lifetime (wouldn't sniff the HOF), [/b] so if he wasn't hitting them out, we wouldn't even remember who he was. The main thing about steroids is that instead of hitting a harmless fly ball to left, it carried further due to the extra muscle strength and adrenaline from being ''pumped up'' more than normal. None of today's juiced up goons could sniff the Babe's jock strap and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Babe Ruth had to hit a baseball with the reaction of today's hackysack (sp.). Plus, his bat was not far removed from being a pine tree branch. If the Babe could have juiced, we wouldn't be talking about these other bums.

[quote name="AggiesAreWe" post="741903" timestamp="1263168526"] [quote author=bullets13 link=topic=64589.msg741895#msg741895 date=1263168053] [quote author=LAZEEK link=topic=64589.msg741892#msg741892 date=1263167820] how quick you forget about UT losing the NC 3 nights ago!!! ;D ;D ;D [/quote] i won't dwell on it, just as i'm sure you haven't thought about the Eagles' debacle last night  ;D [/quote] Why is it that tu fans always insist on changing the subject when they can't defend their team? [/quote] i guess because ags are always involved in games their team ain't in.  ;D I'm not glad that Kansas lost. There's a huge tournament to be played later on. That's when it counts.

There is an old saying about ''the apple doesn't fall far from the tree''. I'm not sure it applies here, but I have always thought Barry was a putz. I just have a huge problem with anyone [b]spitting in their own mother's face[/b]. The visual I get is hard to believe.

....do this to their own mother?? I don't care how angry she makes you, just walk away. Barry Bonds' son charged in alleged fight with mom Published - Jan 07 2010 08:21PM CST Redwood City, Calif.— San Mateo County prosecutors have charged Barry Bonds' son with five misdemeanors after he allegedly threw a doorknob at his mother. Chief Deputy District Attorney Steve Wagstaffe said Thursday that 20-year-old Nikolai Bonds faces charges of battery, false imprisonment, vandalism, making threats to an officer and obstructing an officer. Menlo Park police say Bonds threw the doorknob at his mother, Sun Bonds, and [b]spit in her face[/b] during a Dec. 5 confrontation. Officers also said Bonds blocked his mother from leaving and destroyed property worth $400. The 45-year-old Sun Bonds, the home run king's ex-wife, wasn't injured. Wagstaffe said Bonds could face up to two years in jail. He is scheduled to be arraigned Jan. 12.

That Ark. squad is scary. Good win.

[quote name="SFA85" post="737279" timestamp="1262376948"] [quote author=BMTSoulja1 link=topic=63890.msg736007#msg736007 date=1262108590] I'm looking for SFA85 to back me up on this but....I hate spread Offense!  Real football is played from under center in the I formation or pro sets.  ;D ;D [/quote] Amem Soulja.  Funny how the Navy and the AFA beat 2 spread teams like a drum Thursday.  All I need is Georgia Tech to beat Iowa and there maybe a sutle shift back to I-option or the pure Wishbone.  [b]The spread only creates QB who throw for a ton of yards[/b] but take 5 years to adapt to the NFL.  It also makes for some [b]soft offensive linemen....[/b][/quote] Actually, the spread is more effective with an athletic, double threat QB. The adaptation to the NFL is on the coaches and what they are willing to let their QB do. The second statement....I just don't believe that at all. If a lineman is soft, he always was.

[quote name="Mark F Barnes" post="737149" timestamp="1262341995"] That's pretty good find Baddog That 1957 team was chucked full of great players. I know some of them fairly well. James Street, he was one of the stars of that '57 Nederland team, I had forgotten about that team. James is still alive and retired up in San Jacinto County. He used to be a county commissioner up there for several years. He had pictures of that team on the wall of his office behind his desk. That Team had W.H. "War Horse" Erwin, Linc Pruitt, Herby Adkins (who later went on to be big time at Baylor), and a rookie Asst. Coach named Neal Morgan. The way James Street tells it, Herby Adkins busted through the line and he jumped and blocked the final punt in the Mustang endzone fell on the ball for a touchdown, to win the game and seal the deal against Sweetwater.  Or something along those lines. If you got around Joe Sibley, Pat Johnson, Neal Morgan or any of them, they all talk about that '57 team. Don't know if Joe and Pat are still alive, Neal was a few years ago, but not sure now. But I see James quite a bit when I am up there in Coldspring, we will go down to Kimons to grab a chicken fried steak, there in town. He still drives the same old Chevy PU he's been driving for nearly 40 years. He believes in getting his money out of a vehicle. Funny stuff, to sit across the table from him and he still calls me Coach, and I'm 21 years his junior. But when you are a football coach in East Texas in anyway form or fashion, you walk on hallowed ground in some folks eyes.    [/quote] Mid County schools dominated the 3A title scene from 1953-1957. PNG won 2, lost 1....Nederland won 1, lost 1. [Hidden Content]

wow... [Hidden Content]

The 1957 Nederland Bulldogs went undefeated winning state, scoring 431 points (30.7 ppg) while giving up only 54 (3.8 ppg) in 14 games, with 7 shutouts, including one shutout in the playoffs. The 7 shutouts were against: Tyler  6-0 Istrouma 14-0 Beaumont  41-0 French 37-0 Vidor 42-0 Silsbee 39-0 Edison (San Antonio) 39-0....semis

pngfan1, good thing you couldn't advance a fumble back then because Permian recovered one and ran it back for a TD with no time on the clock. in today's game, French would have lost. soulja, I was 32 in '85.

[quote name="BMTSoulja1" post="735946" timestamp="1262100287"] [quote author=baddog link=topic=64159.msg735503#msg735503 date=1262017765] [quote author=HillGuy link=topic=64159.msg735476#msg735476 date=1262015292] [quote author=kicker link=topic=64159.msg735463#msg735463 date=1262013823] [quote author=HillGuy link=topic=64159.msg735368#msg735368 date=1261969639] Barbers Hill is 2 for 2 (one a tie!) [/quote] Tie? that sucks. Must have been waaaay back in the day. Before penetrations, first downs, and all the other tie breakers before overtime. [/quote] Yep...'71 [/quote] They still had ties in 1985. Ask Soulja.  ::) [/quote]What do I have to do with this? [/quote] Because you are from Beaumont and would know. Guess I was mistaken.  ::)

[quote name="pngfan1" post="735927" timestamp="1262094186"] [quote author=baddog link=topic=64159.msg735503#msg735503 date=1262017765] [quote author=HillGuy link=topic=64159.msg735476#msg735476 date=1262015292] [quote author=kicker link=topic=64159.msg735463#msg735463 date=1262013823] [quote author=HillGuy link=topic=64159.msg735368#msg735368 date=1261969639] Barbers Hill is 2 for 2 (one a tie!) [/quote] Tie? that sucks. Must have been waaaay back in the day. Before penetrations, first downs, and all the other tie breakers before overtime. [/quote] Yep...'71 [/quote] They still had ties in 1985. Ask Soulja.  ::) [/quote] In 1984 (1985 graduating class) French tied Odessa Permian. That was a very good game. [/quote] You are right. It was '84

McGrady can still play, but he's always hurt. I don't know what they could get for him.

[quote name="HillGuy" post="735476" timestamp="1262015292"] [quote author=kicker link=topic=64159.msg735463#msg735463 date=1262013823] [quote author=HillGuy link=topic=64159.msg735368#msg735368 date=1261969639] Barbers Hill is 2 for 2 (one a tie!) [/quote] Tie? that sucks. Must have been waaaay back in the day. Before penetrations, first downs, and all the other tie breakers before overtime. [/quote] Yep...'71 [/quote] They still had ties in 1985. Ask Soulja.  ::)

[quote name="BLUEDOVE3" post="735200" timestamp="1261931670"] one word:  KANSAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Give me an athletic, quick and smart team anyday. [/quote] Well, yet again the question isn't answered. Texas' team is athletic, quick, and smart. You can't be #2 without it. Being ranked #2 and anyone saying Texas can't possibly win it all, shows a certain lack of intelligence.

Our 2004 team with Dustin Hood at the helm was the best I have seen that I thought should have gone farther than Jacksonville. Our 2000 team with Joe Ramoin should have beaten Bay City and gone much farther too. Our 2001 team with William Delage that played in the semis (like badndn said about his PNG team) did not fall short to Smithson Valley. SV moved up to 5A the following year and played for state. That's how tough they were.

Newspapers have to draw a line somewhere. You aren't going to please everyone, so why even try? I can't keep up with every player, so I will say that this list doesn't look biased to me, and I don't even like the ''Surprise''. Congrats to all players.

Goat's just being sarcastic trying to take some sting out of a big win!!

.....also, I think some of these kids beat Ozen as freshmen. Big district win for the Dogs!

[quote name="ForeverADog" post="733086" timestamp="1261242001"] Granted, I didn't predict Nederland winning, but I'm not real surprised they did. Ozen probably has their worst team of the decade and Nederland has one of their best. That is no disrespect to Ozen either, i just feel this Ozen team is good, not great like in the past. Ned just hasn't been able to win a close game all year until Tuesday. Now that they have learned to do that in back to back games look for the wins to keep on coming. Great job dogs. [/quote] No one ever cares what kind of team we have, whatever team we field, they just enjoy the win, so......... Way to go Dogs!

[quote name="shovelhead" post="732304" timestamp="1261090293"] Teachers ask questions and don't always like the answers                                                                                                                                                                                                          It is near the Christmas break of the school year. The students have                  turned in all their work and there is really nothing more to do. All the              children are restless and the teacher decides to have an early                        dismissal.                                                                                                                                                                  Teacher: "Whoever answers the questions I ask, first and correctly can                leave early today."                                                                                                                                                        Little Johnny says to himself "Good, I want to get outta here. I'm smart              and will answer the question."                                                                                                                                              Teacher: "Who said 'Four Score and Seven Years Ago'?"                                                                                                                      Before Johnny can open his mouth, Susie says, "Abraham Lincoln."                                                                                                            Teacher: "That's right Susie, you can go home."                                                                                                                            Johnny is mad that Susie answered the question first.                                                                                                                      Teacher: "Who said 'I Have a Dream'?"                                                                                                                                      Before Johnny can open his mouth, Mary says, "Martin Luther King."                                                                                                          Teacher: "That's right Mary, you can go."                                                                                                                                  Johnny is even madder than before.                                                                                                                                          Teacher: "Who said 'Ask not, what your country can do for you'?"                                                                                                            Before Johnny can open his mouth, Nancy says, "John F. Kennedy."                                                                                                            Teacher: "That's right Nancy, you may also leave."                                                                                                                          Johnny is boiling mad that he has not been able to answer to any of the              questions.                                                                                                                                                                  When the teacher turns her back Johnny says, "I wish these bitches would              keep their mouths shut!"                                                                                                                                                    The teacher turns around: "NOW WHO SAID THAT?"                                                                                                                              Johnny: "TIGER WOODS. CAN I GO NOW?"                    [/quote] Hilarious!