Cougar14.2

Yeah, it was title or bust and we busted. Just like Cedar Hill, Navasota, Carroll, Trinity, Permian and the other 50+ schools that felt like they had a real shot at winning it. Hopefully the kids refocus and play with the same chip they did in '14. Dayton football has regressed since Stew left, but all of Dayton athletics has regressed since Stew left. I think Dayton does about as well as they can given the current circumstances which is probably what your "make up your mine" comment alluded to. I would love to apply for a high school job but I have three sons and a baby girl and couldn't afford the drastic pay-cut. I'll just keep posting more things to make you laugh . . . . until it happens, lol.

I think Maple was the OC at Kingwood before he got the job in Cleveland though, KP is probably pretty close to his dream job. With what KP offers, unless Dayton was to overpay a move like that would probably be less than lateral.

I think the people I talk to from Dayton are more objective than you. After Crosby was blown out by Dayton in 2012 I told you your team was soft and would regress the longer Stew was away from the sidelines. You tried to argue me down, yet everything I told you happened exactly as I said it would. Guy walked in my office two months ago and asked me if I thought Riordan would take the AD job in Dayton because Stew might be out. This guy never jokes but obviously I thought he was. Turns out he was dead on just like the whole 8 years I've know him. I swear to you, Monday morning a different Dayton guy walks into my office and goes "Hey, why don't you apply for the Dayton job?. The opening should be posted later today." Of course he was joking about me applying but he was serious about the opening, then this thread pops up a day later. Think what you want though Pride, we've never changed each other's opinions.

I think the more logical thought process would be that Dayton's administration just feels better not having someone so tied at the hip with Stewart. My comments were strictly football related.

Yeah, I'm sure there would be rumblings. I don't think Riordan averaging over 10 wins per season as a first time head coach and getting to the semis his third year on the job did Hancock any favors after Stew was in Dayton. I think Dayton sees themselves as equals to Crosby which hurt Hancock when he couldn't win at the same clip. Like you highlighted though, even in a year when we lose a lot Crosby still has about 7 D1 kids coming back for the 2016 season. With that level of talent expectations are high enough where 11-1 feels like a subpar season, with Dayton producing one D1 level kid every 3-5 seasons I don't think you can say the same for them.

He lost to Vidor, which in my view, was seen as completely unacceptable by the administration. He also only had one win against Dayton in 8 years which I'm sure helped roll him out the door. Flannigan got a 6A job about 30 seconds after he was fired though, hence my comment about Hancock potentially landing in a better place than Dayton.

To be fair, before Stew got there Dayton limped along all the time. If you're not comparing him to Stew then listen to how this sounds. "I think we need a new coach, all this guy has done is go to the playoffs every year he's had the job but he's lost in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round." That being said, do you think the next coach should be fired after five years on the job if he goes to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st rounds in that span?

My only concern is that I would like to see Dayton strong so that it means something when we beat them. KP should be good next year but this is potentially an HISD level district after re-alignment and we need as many good teams as possible. I've told you many times I thought Stew was the best coach in all of SETX for about a 10 year stretch and I agree with the vast majority of what Jayhawk said. Crosby was overrated because they lost in the second round after going 11-0, right? Meaning the entirety of how your season in your opinion is based on how well you do in the playoffs, correct? I think you have to give all coaches a pass on their first year at a program so years 2-6 for Stew he had three first round losses, one second round loss and one third round loss. Hancock only had the job five years but had one third round loss, two second round losses and two first round losses. Not to mention this was Hancock's first head coaching job and Stew had already been a head coach before he came to Dayton. I also think Dayton can do better at head coach IF they get the right guy, I just don't think he's nearly as incompetent as some Dayton fans make him out to be because they keep comparing him to Jerry Stewart. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he lands in a better place than Dayton. His resume will probably be at the top of the list when compared to other coaches that were fired after the season.

I didn't use any stats, I just went off wins and losses which are the only things that should matter right? I've told you many times, which you don't think matters, that you need players to win. Look around at who's left in the 5A and 6A playoffs, you have about 4 schools with money but the rest like Angleton, RP, Atascosita, NS, Dickinson, Manvel, GR ALL have athletes. When Stew had athletes like Green and Dugat he had his best teams, I don't think that's a coincidence. Other than maybe the '09 team Crosby beat 28-0 when he didn't have those level of players his results were pretty much the same as Hancock's, first and second round losses with a trip or two to the third round. Stew gets the credit for resurrecting the program and rightfully so, but if you look at it objectively Dayton was under Hancock exactly what they were except for about three of Stew's 16 years I believe.

Well, the last two years Crosby has played 27 games and is giving up about 19ppg. Maybe Dayton looks at the DC to the west if they don't feel they can get their guy, whoever that may be? Makes a lot of sense seeing as how McKeon wouldn't have to move his family to take the job if he applied/was offered.

Word I got was that Hancock isn't actually "out" yet, but would have to re-apply as the AD/HC and might not be willing to do that versus just moving on. Was told Nations would be the leading candidate but has been out of football and would have to take a paycut to take the Dayton job. Hancock' s first five years were very similar, probably even a little better, than Stew's first five years at Dayton so it's going to be interesting to see what the criteria for the new coach would be? I imagine Dayton would get their share of quality applicants from the lower classification SETX schools though.

I think the BH job is great in theory because of the money, but when you approach the more established coaches that already know what it takes to win a slight pay increase probably won't move them like an up and comer.

IMO BH needs to get as close to the top of the pay scale as possible if they want to pull a proven coach away from somewhere. I don't think the job is overly attractive otherwise. When you can make over 100k coaching bad teams in ISD schools in the are where the expectations won't be near what they will at BH, I think you get stuck between a rock and a hard place unless you lure them in with the money. Otherwise, what's the difference between BH and College Park where you can make over 110K and not really even be expected to finish over .500?

CJ sort of gets a pass because of the military base though, that's the prime reason they've been so good for so long. They've had good coaches, maybe one of the best but they get to play with a marked deck. Ironically BH gave Charli Collier's mom a job. She just happens to be the top ranked girls basketball recruit in the country in her class. She should be gearing up with Netherly's little sister for a championship run but hey, it is what it is. I highly doubt the folks at New Caney, which is usually a layup, care how the product got on the field. They just like what they saw. I always believed if you build it they'll come too. It's evident from some of the conversations I've had and heard of with people thinking/wanting to move into the district. My theory is that if you find a great coach and the community supplies the talent, that coach is going to win regardless of money, facilities or anything else. Just give him the players, however that may be.

Crosby would probably finish second in that district. Vandy just lost to Georgetown to finish the season and Vista Ridge along with Vandy play 0 defense. You'll see that if Vandy or Vista Ridge make the semis and Temple drops another 70 on them. LC was the last one from the region to win a 5A title but like I said, we had 10 or 11 tries out of the 20. I think region 4 has played for 9 or 10 out of a possible 20. All it tells me is our one or two very best have a hard time beating their one or two very best teams. There's one good 5A district in the entirety of region 4, how does that put them on a different level? Port Lavaca is a monster in region 4, even beat Cedar Park before they lost by 35 to Brenham in the semis. They can't finish above 4th place in their own district in region 3. Other than a handful of schools the recruiting in the Austin/San Antonio is a joke. You'll never change my mind as far as region 4 goes. As far as the DFW goes in 5A, who are the next best teams after Aledo and why don't they just use their model since all you need is some money and a coach to create talent? It's a lot of Mansfield, Ennis, John Tyler, Marshall, Longview, etc. I think you're getting it misconstrued because the singularity that is Aledo can beat those teams, my question is why aren't there more Aledo's? Is there only money and good coaches at Aledo and Cedar Park? I think you're right in that what we feel is needed to win is different so we'll just disagree on it.

Think about it though. Of the last possible 20 titles Aledo and Travis have won 10 of them. Region 3 has played for either 10 or 11 of the possible 20 titles, it's hard to beat those teams though. They're not trading off teams and still beating everybody, it's the same few teams over and over. Even if you look at Vandy which beat CP in district play last year, they scored 35 on Temple and still lost by 41. Temple barely beat Ridge Point and George Ranch by 3 points last year the two rounds prior, the only thing remembered is that they lost to Aledo though. So with money, coaching and 2400+ kids in 5A Vandy still got smoked. I know Travis moved up but they still have money and coaching right? Well, so far in 6A they have made it out of the second round once. Last year they lost to Spring which I believed finished fourth in their district and this year they get Westfield in the second round, lets see what the money and coaching does for them when they get some studs from north Houston lined up across from them again. Even when they did get past he second round it didn't help against Cedar Hill. Much like having the best players its also different when you have the most players, which is what BH will need to consistently compete. Those Leander ISD schools in 25-5A are a lot like LT when they just had more kids than everybody they played.

I understand what you're saying but you keep naming Aledo, who are the other Aledo's? Nobody else with money can find a coach like Aledo's? Why aren't there 10 Aledo's out of the 1400+ Texas High Schools? No they don't have JG anymore, but they still have D1 linemen that block for D1 backs and they throw to D1 receivers. Aledo has a lot of FBS talent, and who do the play in the semis and finals? Brenham, Temple, John Tyler, Manvel, La Marque, Guyer, etc. None of those teams are what I would consider having money and none look demographically like BH. I agree that you don't need those kids to win but it's funny how those teams keep winning. Even when Dayton played Travis they had Gilbert who ended up being the Gatorade National Player of the Year to go along with 5 or 6 other FBS kids, Dayton had Green and Dugat. After Katy name the best 5-10 6A's in Houston. Probably Manvel, Westfield, Pearland, North Shore, Dickinson, Atascosita, etc. It's not really true to say the teams playing deep into the playoffs are more like BH than Crosby. I'm not saying you need the best athletes to win, I'm just saying there are probably 50+ BH's around Texas but only one Katy.

With the level of athlete BH has right now they can compete in cycles. With their enrollment and the level of competition they play it's almost impossible to do it consistently though. I think once their enrollment gets to 1800-2000 you can start to see them as a yearly contender again. You use Cedar Park and Aledo as examples but Cedar park is one of the bigger 5A's in the state and I don't think Johnathan Gray will ever walk down the hall in Barbers Hill. Cedar Park and Aledo also produce their fair share of D1 talent, and some of it the most elite in the country. Over the last decade both of those schools have sent a lot more kids D1 than Crosby has. Even Stewart's best teams were with guys like Pearson, Mitchell, Green, and Dugat. He was the only guy winning like that around here. Katy is probably the only team in the state that you can say sort of beats teams at a talent deficit. There's a reason the other 1000+ coaches around the state can't copy Katy though.

It may not be a stretch to think King has three more players like that coming though. When Williams was a freshman they had a kid named AJ Jeffery that played running back there before he transferred to Summer Creek. When I was talking football one day with my cousin who's a coach at North Shore he told me about the freshman back at King which was Williams at the time. I didn't really get to see film of Williams freshman's year until after he was a sophomore and getting noticed. It was impressive. Well, now they have another freshman back who also wears #3 and is probably even more impressive. They definitely have receivers that project to be as good as Coleman too. And as usual, they have speed to burn. Not to mention they're probably picking transfers from North Shore and North Forest who are only 5 or 6 miles away. IMO, the ability of King's staff to develop quarterbacks is where their success will lie or not. They're probably fine everywhere else as long as they can stay in 5A.

BH was successful under Price when they were the big school down in 3A(4A). He went undefeated his first season they moved up, then subsequently went .500 the next four years combined. When Price got fired he turned over a young team to Gage that had went 7-4 the year before and were poised to have the season they did in 2011. Since taking over for Price he's 33-20 and has one playoff win to his credit while Price never won a playoff game after they moved up. Every few years BH does get Dayton or Crosby in a dog fight. I understand what you're saying about Riordan coming into Crosby and getting us past the second round hump, but if Evans develops players so well then why couldn't he get East Chambers past the second round? You do realize that in a 6 year span at running back alone he had Lennon Creer(Tennessee), Bryce Beal(Houston) and BJ Allen(Baylor). On some of those same teams he had Denarius Moore(Tennessee) and Chance Blackmon(Colorado). If they didn't score enough they had guys like Stephen Hodge(TCU) on the defensive side of the ball. I understand your theory about his level of player development. I'm just telling you it's a lot easier to win the derby if you already have a bunch of thoroughbreds in the stable to choose from versus trying to "develop" some.

That's definitely one of the more ignorant comments I've seen on here this year. I would assume apples to oranges is what you were talking about? Evans won those state titles with Lennon Creer and Denarius Moore. Creer was the most dominant player at the small school level at that time and Moore was a future NFL draft pick, he had them both on the same team in 2A/3A. The next time Tatum was really good they had Jalen Overstreet who was at the time probably the #5 dual-threat qb in the entire country . . . playing 2A. Some places, especially at the small school level you're going to win sometime because your players are just that much better than everybody else. When Tatum had to come up this last alignment and their talent level didn't dwarf everybody they went 7-16, the last time they came up before that was '08 and '09 when they went 11-11. It's a lot different coaching when you have the best players on the field, that's never going to be the case if he went to BH. You can even look at the Rivals pages and see the talent difference even though BH has the much larger enrollment. Kids at each school that were recruited enough to receive a profile: Tatum: [Hidden Content] Barbers Hill: [Hidden Content]

Isn't this guy like 35, has he ever even called a play at the high school level? I know Crosby got a young guy but he was also a state championship level coordinator. BH tries to steamroll people now and can't, it would be more of the same trying to run La Porte's offense without La Porte's caliber of players.

It's money or athletes. You ironically won't find a "good coach" somewhere they don't have one of the two.

C'mon man. You're talking apples and oranges. Tatum produces NFL players, Barbers Hill is probably close to three times their size and can't produce a D1 kid. I'm not at all saying that's what you need to win but you also have to ask yourself who they're going to beat? It's a lot easier to win when you have better players than everybody else. Price and Gage both won district titles at BH, Price going undefeated. Last time they were able to get into the playoffs they won 31-0, the next two years they went 6-4 and missed them. It's just hard to win consistently given some of the factors against them.

Seems like a reach for Barbers Hill. First time head coach that's never even been a coordinator. I would think coordinators at places like Manvel, Katy, Pearland or one of the Cypress schools would be higher on the list. One thing for sure is that they still won't need to buy any receiver gloves.