48newyorker

nothinbutnet, New whistles DON'T have balls in them ;) I hope you read the thread where I explained where adavantage/disadvanctage comes from. We have processes in place for referee's accountability. We have to make the same ride to Austin as the coaches do if the situation gets to that point. Any ref who thinks they get everything right every time is dreaming. Consistency is our goal in applying rules, when we must, to avoid one team or individual gaining an illegal advantage. Thanks to all of you for your comments, concerns and civility...

ETBB, In your example you keep referring to a player being "fouled" while trying to dribble the ball past their opponent. If you inhibit that dribblers ability to get past you by "fouling" them then you have gained advantage and should be called for the violation. Unfortunately, this foul is not always called, especially if the kid being fouled gets past their opponent still in control of the ball. I can see your point about being fouled all night and then the opponent finally get's a steal giving advantage to the defender. However, one steal in a game where the offense has gotten past their opponent multiple times should bode well for the offense if they can take advantage of a 4-on-5 situation more often than not. Sometimes you actually punish the offense because the defender will grab a player who has just moved past them just to keep from getting scored on. I may allow the offense to go on to the hole without a whistle because a whistle would take away his move to the hole. See what I mean? It's a tough call. Now, if a player is fouling a dribbler and he CAN'T get past them then it should be called a foul! Thanks for your service as a coach and former referee. Neither is for the weak of heart! As for the other situations described...well, I can't explain bad calls any better than any of you! ;)

I appreciate all your input and will put it in my memory bank. You are all correct: a walk is a walk and a foul is a foul. I could probably have used a better example than shuffling feet. Remeber this: a referee is there to apply the rules, when necessary, to prevent one team from gaining an illegal advantage over an opponent. [b]This is a statement in the Rules of Basketball (NFHS) just above where Rule number 1 begins:[/b] "[b]The Intent and Purpose of the Rules"[/b] The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and the tall player; to provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting behavior and fair play; and to emphisize cleverness and skill without unduly limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense. Therefore, it is important to know the [b]intent and purpose [/b] of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or team should not be permitted an advantage which is NOT intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage NOT intended by a rule. It is the policy of the NFHS Basketball Rule Committee that there be no deviation from the rules unless experimental approval has been granted by the NFHS. (This is word-for-word from the 2010-2011 rule book). If you read that carefully you now understand that EVERYTHING is about not letting one individual or team gain an advantage NOT intended in the rule. Even in my bad example---if the kid shuffles his feet a little, 60 feet from the rim and it doesn't put the other team at a disadvantage (intent of the rule) no call. However, if same kid is being closely guarded even 1 ft inside the opponents baseline and shuffles his feet in an effort to fake out their guy to get by them then you would have a player gaining advantage by walking and it is a violation (he gained advantage). Younger officials and fans often want to call or have called every little thing that happens but the committee has tried to make it clear the intent is far greater than the action. I don't ecpect to have all you in agreeement with every call you see an official make. I don't even agree with all the ones I make...yes I know when I blow a call I'm just greatful to have the fans and coaches to keep me from doing it too often :D To answer another ? that came through...I'm a gray shirt.

etbb, You are correct. A hand check is a foul...whether in 1a or 5a...a foul is foul if advantage is gained. Read the rule book where it discusses incidental contact. Contact in basketball is constant but it is not always a foul unless the offender gains an illegal advantage. Common sense refereeing is what most of you are NOT seeing and I think that's where the frustrations come from being a fan.

nuthinbut... Notice the word "may" not call...it was in reference to shuffling feet...and you are right...if that player is 60 feet from the rim and is passed the ball and shuffles his feet a bit I may pass that call to avoid interupting the game since it didn't affect the game. In the NFL on defensive pass interference the referee does not call a push on the defense if the ball was overthrown by 10 yards, say. Same concept...

Much that has been said is NOT true. However, everthing that has been said is NOT UNTRUE. All of you have hit on some issues we as referees are concerned about. First, We do not have an abundance of seasoned officials ready to step in and call "big" games. A "big" game could be a 1A game with the right ingredients. We do have less seasoned refs in 1A games generally because of the lack of good, experienced refs along with all the other classes we serve. Calling ballgames is actually easier than you give us credit for. In fact, as you continue to referee the game "slows" down a bit as you become more aware of what all is going on around you. The big key is for us to keep refs around long enough for them to mature as officials. When we send 1st thru 3rd year refs to do Jr. High and sub varsity games it is not easy to here from fans, coaches and players (and commentors on web sites ;)) what an idiot you are for not calling everything YOU see from the stands. I have never met a basketball referee who wasn't a fan of the game before they became a referee. You are correct that fans see things from the stands that we can't see. However, for the most part, it is better for the guy on the floor to have the whistle. We will NEVER get ALL calls right in any game. We strive to "manage" a game by interupting the flow as rarely as we can. That sometimes means if a player shuffles their feet a little but did NOT gain an ADVANTAGE by doing so we may not call a traveling violation. The hardest thing for a fan to understand is the concept of ADVANTAGE - DISADVANTAGE. The next time you see a play you think should have been called but was not: Ask yourself this question: Did the player gain an ILLEGAL advantage by their action? If there was an illegal advantange then the ref should have called a violation. Lastly, After each of our games (varsity & sub vastiy) the caoches have the opportunity to grade each of their officails in several key catagories. We do have accountability from the ones that matter most! The coach! If you're interested in joining us please contact our local chapter...409-840-6914

I'm kind of amazed this dicussion is still going on. When the former TASO board decided to switch there affiliation and take up with the UIL it was put to a chapter vote. A number of the current TASO group voted to go with UIL. Their vote was done so that they could start another chapter because they simply didn't like some of the members of the UIL board. It's that simple. It has caused numerous rifts this year with schools as well as taken a number of games from either chapter being able to call that game. I'm a member of the UIL chapter and have many friends that chose to go with the TASO Chapter. The UIL chapter has done the best the best work they could this year and the TASO chapter, as far as I know, has done the same. One of the reasons the officials listed as the number 1, 2 & 3 officials in the chapter is because they are some of the best referees in the area. The TASO group has some excellent officials as well that would be in the top five or ten had they stayed with UIL. It is our hope that this mess will be solved before the next season comes around because refereeing balls games is not about how great the officials are...I doubt any of you come to games to check out the refs...it's about the kids who participate and the fans and the coaches...not the referee's. We hate the fact there are good quality officials in the area who are not calling games right now because they don't like the system in place. Come back and help change the system...don't just quit because you didn't a game you think you deserved or becasue you don't like the board...come back and help change it. To all of you who may think you'd like to referee we would love to have you come and join our chapter...we always need new officals to replace us old guys who will not be around forever.

[quote name="OLDREF" post="762143" timestamp="1266536529"] I KNOW WHICH OFFICIAL YOU ARE....YOUR THE PRETTY ONE....RIGHT [/quote] You sir, ARE CORRECT!!!

There will be 4 excellent teams playing Saturday evening at the Montagne Center. These 4 teams have proven this year that they can handle any and all comers. I will be an official in one of the games (i won't say which one) but I'm very much looking forward to seeing both games. Kountze and Silsbee are both well coached and have excellent talent. Spurger and Newton also have excellent athletes will fight to the finish for a win. Looking forward to two great games...see you Saturday!!!