POLL - Acceptable or Not

[3ABirdMan]

Cast your vote, and I open it up for discussion........

In your opinion, as a fan of the game of girls fastpitch,

-  Is it fair (honorable or acceptable may be better desciptors) to recruit players who are commited to a team or already on a roster to go play on another team?

OR

- Is it unfair (unhonorable or unacceptable may be better desciptors) to recruit players who are commited to a team or already on a roster to go play on another team?

[CRUSHCOACH]

I don't believe its acceptable at all. But if its done, at least let the Coaches know early enough so that they can pick up other players. It absolutely kills a team to lose players after the "Summer" season has already began. Not to mention, its a "TEAM" sport and when you quit or jump ship, you are letting down your teammates that have a vested interest in the team !

[3ABirdMan]

I'll get things started.........

As a coach whose goal is to better the skills of a player, the longer the I get to train them, the better they will be, so I oppose it.

As a coach whose goal is to build a players' character that hopefully they will carry with them for the rest of their life, trying to teach them morals about what is right and what is wrong, sportsmanship, friendship, class, etc. , I oppose it.

As a coach whose intention is to try to improve the quality of life for a players entire future by working to get them educated through college, I oppose it.

As a coach who is trying to teach players what a commitment is, and how to honor a commitment, and stick with the commitments you make, and that decisions have consequences, I oppose it.

As a coach, I, in fact, oppose it on every level.  PERIOD.

[3ABirdMan]

DANG!  I type too slow!  CC beat me to the first reply!  ;D

[Bucof2010]

You play select ball to win. I wouldn't think bad of a coach for doing what he thinks will help him win.

[B-A-G FAN]

We had this discussion two years back ,Remember OCG and GTS were forming   Players were recruited by both teams and people were unhappy but such is life and we all moved on . Players join travel ball teams that best benefit them and there goals some coaches for Gold ball worry more about exposer and some are there to be competitive which in return brings colleges and exposer  ,playing the best nine signed or unsigned  . College exposier is great but if you sacrifice being the best team you can to expose certain kids how fair is that   . Commitment goes two ways, if a coach does not give a player the best competition IN other players on his or her team He or she also failed with there commitment. So if a D1 college steals a player from JUCO they are wrong . He@@ no they are trying to get better and the kid is trying to go somewere that best benefits them . I in no way am for or against, everyone has to make choices and some end up bad and some work out great .

[Guest bigcat]

Most coaches have always had a gentlemans agreement. Recruiting players already on a rostered team is a NO NO. It's about the team, not the coach. Take for instance,  a team get several of their players scholarships during the fall. Then when summer ball rolls around, and they jump to another team. What about players left behind still trying to get a scholarship. They helped the ones who left , now they are on their own. I guess what comes around , goes around.  

[B-A-G FAN]

As I said if a college is looking at a player you can bet everyone in there confrence is to, to see what they may have missed . Recruiting is done at every level of the game like it or not . all the way down to league ball .  As I said I am not for or against kinda stuck in the middle  :-\

[3ABirdMan]

We had this discussion two years back ,Remember OCG and GTS were forming  Players were recruited by both teams and people were unhappy but such is life and we all moved on . Players join travel ball teams that best benefit them and there goals some coaches for Gold ball worry more about exposer and some are there to be competitive which in return brings colleges and exposer  ,playing the best nine signed or unsigned  . College exposier is great but if you sacrifice being the best team you can to expose certain kids how fair is that   . Commitment goes two ways, if a coach does not give a player the best competition IN other players on his or her team He or she also failed with there commitment. So if a D1 college steals a player from JUCO they are wrong . He@@ no they are trying to get better and the kid is trying to go somewere that best benefits them . I in no way am for or against, everyone has to make choices and some end up bad and some work out great .

That was done AFTER Nationals were finished, during or just preceeding August tryouts.  NOT THE SAME THING!

I'm talking about DURING A SEASON, while players are STILL ON A ROSTER...........

[3ABirdMan]

We had this discussion two years back ,Remember OCG and GTS were forming   Players were recruited by both teams and people were unhappy but such is life and we all moved on . Players join travel ball teams that best benefit them and there goals some coaches for Gold ball worry more about exposer and some are there to be competitive which in return brings colleges and exposer  ,playing the best nine signed or unsigned  . College exposier is great but if you sacrifice being the best team you can to expose certain kids how fair is that   . Commitment goes two ways, if a coach does not give a player the best competition IN other players on his or her team He or she also failed with there commitment. So if a D1 college steals a player from JUCO they are wrong . He@@ no they are trying to get better and the kid is trying to go somewere that best benefits them . I in no way am for or against, everyone has to make choices and some end up bad and some work out great .

SO....  Can a D1 steal a SIGNED JUCO player?  As in, if the player has already committed,and signed to play with a JUCO, can they break that commitment and go play for a D1?  What is involved in that process?

[B-A-G FAN]

I do feel for you Birdman I didnt say it was right ,but these kids wanted to do this and others wanted to be apart of it . There is a special bond between some players that cannot be matched and that is were this all came about . I can promise you I had no part what so ever  :-\

[trout]

When the G.T. Shockers Gold team was formed we posted our tryout dates, I did not make phone calls asking players to join the team everyone had the same chance to make the team at tryouts. I had an OCG player ask me about playing for my GTS Gold team a year a go and told that player that I would love to have her but she or her parents needed to call her current coach to get everything straight. What would you do if you have player asking to come your team at this time and is it recruiting if the player contacts you because they are unhappy with there current team? I even had a couple players quit my team last summer and they were allowed to move to another team with a full release but remember once you sign an ASA roster no moves are allowed in ASA until after Gold Nationals. IFA and NFA are more lenient on roster moves. I even have had a couple of players move on this summer and I wish them well on there new teams. Players move on for different reasons no hard feelins just hope everything works out for best. As a coach I know it is hard to lose players and even harder to replace them.  

[adminbaberuth]

When players move to different teams it just opens a spot for another one to move in.

I've noticed the key to winning games in softball is the pitcher. I would make an aggreement between the summer teams that pitchers are protected if they are on a roster.

[DAMan]

As everyone knows, I am not a coach, but umpire and fan of the game.

I do not think it is acceptable.

If a player is on a team roster, then she should be left alone.  She made her choice.

Coaches that care about their players will get them the exposure that they need.

A player jumping ship, so to speak, is like one taking that vacation so many of your were

against, during the height of High School season, letting her teammates down.

If a players feels they just cannot cope with the team they have signed with, then they

should at least have the courage and guts to confront the coach and let them know how

and why they wish to leave.

As for coaches going to players and already signed, not acceptable.  If as a coach/manager

you are just starting a new team, there are lots of players out there not playing.  Sure, early

on talent may be lacking, but that will be your job in getting them ready.

Just my thoughts. but I have no horses in this race.

[osue200]

When the G.T. Shockers Gold team was formed we posted our tryout dates, I did not make phone calls asking players to join the team everyone had the same chance to make the team at tryouts. I had an OCG player ask me about playing for my GTS Gold team a year a go and told that player that I would love to have her but she or her parents needed to call her current coach to get everything straight. What would you do if you have player asking to come your team at this time and is it recruiting if the player contacts you because they are unhappy with there current team? I even had a couple players quit my team last summer and they were allowed to move to another team with a full release but remember once you sign an ASA roster no moves are allowed in ASA until after Gold Nationals. IFA and NFA are more lenient on roster moves. I even have had a couple of players move on this summer and I wish them well on there new teams. Players move on for different reasons no hard feelins just hope everything works out for best. As a coach I know it is hard to lose players and even harder to replace them.  

Is it recruiting if 14 girls decide to pool a team together.  Because they maybe unhappy with their current situation or that they like the fact that these same girls are on the same page at this point in time of the summer.    Birdman I understand what your saying.  But you do know your accusations are directed to 17 and 18 year old girls who put this team together.  Just to let everyone know the girls who put this together are reading this thread.  I've have already gotten phone calls about it.

[Dogs0917]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm really sorry that we made everyone so upset but WE AS A TEAM made this decision not the parents...We are old enough to know that us making this team is going to really help the nederland softball program for future years.

[Slam14]

As everyone knows, I am not a coach, but umpire and fan of the game.

I do not think it is acceptable.

If a player is on a team roster, then she should be left alone.  She made her choice.

Coaches that care about their players will get them the exposure that they need.

A player jumping ship, so to speak, is like one taking that vacation so many of your were

against, during the height of High School season, letting her teammates down.

If a players feels they just cannot cope with the team they have signed with, then they

should at least have the courage and guts to confront the coach and let them know how

and why they wish to leave.

As for coaches going to players and already signed, not acceptable.  If as a coach/manager

you are just starting a new team, there are lots of players out there not playing.  Sure, early

on talent may be lacking, but that will be your job in getting them ready.

Just my thoughts. but I have no horses in this race.

  Nice point here.

Take a look back at that thread and see if some of the same arguments don't apply here.

[3ABirdMan]

I  have not ACCUSED anyone of anything!

I asked a question on a poll to open a discussion, period.

[Pirates88]

I  have not ACCUSED anyone of anything!

I asked a question on a poll to open a discussion, period.

I agree with Birdman. Didn't see him accuse anyone of anything. Parents, coaches, or players that read this thread should not get offended simply because he asked a question.

[Mc]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm really sorry that we made everyone so upset but WE AS A TEAM made this decision not the parents...We are old enough to know that us making this team is going to really help the nederland softball program for future years.

Good luck with all that!

I posted something recently in which I unintentionally irritated some people concerning giving credit to the players. That is a double edged sword. Players, particularly those who have done well for themselves, in return should give credit to their coaches. Whether you intended it or not, your statements reek of arrogance. Appears to be a slap in the face to every former coach you have ever had. If you feel like your former coaches did not get you up to your highest potential, then why didn't your make the change years ago. Obviously it wasn't immaturity that kept you from making that decision, based on your comments that "we are old enough to know..."  If your excuse WAS immaturity, then how can you ask a bunch of other 15-18 year olds to make a decision that may affect their future? I pity the coach that has to move in and coach a group of kids that are "old enough to know..." Although it appears coaching is not needed.

[Tiger Cat]

How is this new team that is forming in the middle of the travel ball season going to get into some of the college exposure tournaments? Most of these tournaments are full. How does this help the younger girls (the ones WITHOUT scholarships) out at all? It can't. Where will these younger girls play in the fall when half of their "new team" is off at college? Is there enough commitment from the incoming underclassmen to fill the roster again?

And then to think about the girls left on the ship after their "teammates" bailed on their commitments... They weren't even thought of, and it's horrible to be on that end of the bargain.

I know this doesn't affect us in any way this year, but we did feel the sting of this a few years back... So we kinda know how some of those girls will feel when this is all said and done.

[youknow]

Well, I for one am DISAPPOINTED  in the choices made by the players and their parents who formed this "NEW TEAM". I heard rumor of it in the fall, but dismissed it because I thought if this was going to be done, they would have had the COURTESY and CHARACTER to let their fallball coaches know ahead of time. At that time , I would have had NO PROBLEM with them moving on. However, this was done without ANY RESPECT for any of their other TEAM MATES and FRIENDS. Also, alot of other people knew about it before anyone had the GUTS or MATURITY  to let the coaches know... I put that on the PLAYERS , PARENTS, and NEW COACHES!!! I know that the kids are reading this and this is nothing I would'nt tell them myself. I love these kids, but instead of forming a new team for fear of their old team not having enough pitching(which is one of the many excuses I have been told) then why not help recruit a couple of pitchers for your old team until the end of summer and then form your team. This would show me INTEGRITY and planning. There were  MANY solutions to this problem, however all I saw was sneakiness and disrespect to all that welcomed you to a team a few years back. To those that this doesn't apply to...disregard.

[Guest Sports Reporter]

Parents and players should do what is right for the family.  Some players strive to go to college, some don't. Some strive for higher levels of competition and for higher levels of play. 

If a player and their family are not getting their needs met, BEFORE they sign an ASA roster or any other roster and their needs are not getting met then they should move on.  This is not 12U we are talking here, it's levels of committment.  I have also heard that the team they left was not committed to putting the best 9 on the field when it mattered.

[youknow]

I don't agree with your last statement at all. Every senior on the team that wanted to play at a higher level signed to play college ball and that has been for the last 2 years. Those players were showcased and those players were felt to be the BEST players.  Some of the just as talented player were moved to different positions or sat the bench. Some of the girls just waited their turn and then were showcased. That is what TEAMWORK is ALL about. Now it is time to showcase some of the younger girls and yes some others will probably have to sit the bench. However. I'm sure that in a tournament/qualifier the coaches will put the best nine on the field... I guess it just depends on egos as to who each person thinks the best nine are. These coaches have always done what THEY have felt to be the best for this team. I have NOT always agreed with them, but when I had a problem I went to the head coach and settled it. Just to be perfectly clear, I really don't think any of the girls leaving have had to sit the bench very often...so I really would think that is a pi$$ poor excuse. I don't know who Sports Reporter is or if he/she has any knowledge into how this organization is run, so this comment is directed at that poster and NOT AIMED at any of the players.

[Guest bigcat]

Parents and players should do what is right for the family.  Some players strive to go to college, some don't. Some strive for higher levels of competition and for higher levels of play. 

If a player and their family are not getting their needs met, BEFORE they sign an ASA roster or any other roster and their needs are not getting met then they should move on.  This is not 12U we are talking here, it's levels of committment.  I have also heard that the team they left was not committed to putting the best 9 on the field when it mattered.

BULL CRAP. You don't do this. I can see 1 player moving on, If they are not happy with the team..  But you don't do this. What is this teaching the kids ?  Think of myself and no one  else.  I have heard this has been in the works for a while. Why not have the respect to let your coaches know ahead of time, so they will have time to their plans.