STJFL Board

[1212kmg]

Parents who are videoing their children at a public sporting event clearly have implied permission to do so. You misunderstood what I was saying -- he has no authority to video and then try to use it to eject people from a game or punish a coach based on the STJFL by-laws. Is he himself going to physically eject people from a game? Really? The STJFL is not a police state. Do they hold a STJFL civil docket hearing and enter a ruling saying a parent can never return to a public STJFL sporting event? Last I checked, there would have to be some citation from the police for that to happen. If you truly believe it is okay to use the video because the rules don't specifically ban the use of video then I guess you would think it is okay for them to carry pepper spray and handcuffs on the field to enforce these undefined rules and punishments. Where does it end? If it were being used fairly and openly, no one would be having a problem with it most likely. It is being used as a tool to further personal vendettas from those on the Board plain and simple. No one is saying that the STJFL is bad. They are saying that the four who have abused their power need to be reined in. It is highly relevant that the majority of the STJFL board abstained from the vote on punishing the two Beaumont coaches.

[1212kmg]

Oh, I forgot. Yes, I could call the police and ask that he be detained for harassment if I am doing nothing wrong (which is most like the case from what I can gather) and he is following me around with a camera in my face. Also called stalking and borders on an assault if you know the law and how it is defined. He is on a slippery slope.

[Luvyablue]

So why are the coaches told it's ok as long as it's held under 40? Why even open that can of worms? You ready to analyze every game and every team to make sure they upheld whatever YOU define to be the "spirit" of the Mercy rule?

Define the rule!!!!! This a game. Make some definitive rules and let the kids play. Do it like baseball- . Have a true Mercy rule. End the game at 14-7 so everyone feels great. If it's 7 then it's 7. If it's 14 then it's fourteen. Quit trying police certain people and coach your kids.

My kid suxs at soccer. It's ok. She's great at dance and school. When she complains about not scoring I tell her to work harder, practice more. And low and behold she scored the winning goal in her soccer game yesterday.

I certainly don't make up crap about the other team and question their intentions for letting their kids score goals just to make her feel better. It's called life and raising successful adults who are able to cope with the real world.

[Luvyablue]

The board meets the first Wednesday of each month. The next meeting should be November 5th. I would find out location and have specific changes you feel should be made and present those respectfully.

Thanks dad! I'll try to show them more respect than they have shown my team.

I'm currently compiling all the times this STJFL board has broken their own set of bylaws to present at the board meeting. I'm also submitting bylaw changes. Like bobcat, I take my self appointed job as head of the bmt teams legal research very seriously.

And since the STJFL subjects it's self to the open meeting act and Roberts rules of order, I should be in good shape!

I hope they have every i dotted and every t crossed in how they run this organization.

[madmen]

Luv,

I am truly sorry if I offended you. I think you and I agree on many topics on this forum.

I am the first to say let kids play. I do not care one bit what the score is. I do not believe a team should be punished for scoring over a 40 point differential. If a team gets beat, a team gets beat. Sometimes it's a butt kicking, sometimes it's not. It's football, just play.

Nederland was punished (from what I understand) for supposedly breaking and ethics rule of bad sportsmanship. He did not intentionally run the score up on the other team. He was not trying to be malicious in letting his kids play ball and allowing them to do so at their very best. The board wants coaches to basically tell kids not to score to show sportsmanship. If that's the case, why would you advance the ball at 7 seconds left in the game when up by 14 points?

Again, the "rules" either apply to everyone (including board members) or they apply to no one.

[1212kmg]

If they are really concerned about the score being so lopsided, then implement a true mercy rule like in baseball. It's over when it's over and no one can question anything.

[Luvyablue]

I'm sure we do agree about some things and no offense taken.

My problem is with the STJFL and the fact that they expect coaches to use their own judgement to interpret open ended rules and then they want to jump in and tell them oh no this violates the spirit of the rule. And my judgment supersedes your judgement.

All this can easily be solved by having definitive rules and punishments. Then there is no controversy and everyone is held to the same standard. When it's simple and black & white there will be no questions.

[madmen]

Absolutely!

[Luvyablue]

I don't agree with punishing volunteer coaches and kids based on spirit and intent. I also don't agree because any given person can interpret "spirit" in 1000 different ways. Why put yourself in that position? Define it - it's that easy.

If a defined rule is alleged to have been broken then a defined process should be used to determine punishment.

There should also be a chain of command used in reporting violations. Coaches should report infractions to their respective board member. The board member should then report it to the STJFL board. A vote should be taken after all sides have had a chance to be heard. If found to be in violation the head coach should be informed of this and his said punishment. This should be acknowledged by the signature of all parties involved.

All of the Beaumont situation would have been prevented if all of the above or some form of the above had been adopted.

[Luvyablue]

Instead we have board members running around with cameras trying to catch people breaking rules. We have coaches saying they have no problem with the game just played and signing off on said game. Then low and behold here comes the board reviewing games for perceived violations.

[Luvyablue]

And I'm sorry mad - I reread your post. I misunderstood what you were saying. I agree rules either apply or they don't.

[vp93]

I'm sure we do agree about some things and no offense taken.
My problem is with the STJFL and the fact that they expect coaches to use their own judgement to interpret open ended rules and then they want to jump in and tell them oh no this violates the spirit of the rule. And my judgment supersedes your judgement.
All this can easily be solved by having definitive rules and punishments. Then there is no controversy and everyone is held to the same standard. When it's simple and black & white there will be no questions.

In the past, I'm not coaching this year, I know the coaches meeting,that all the coaches are supposed to attend at the beginning of the year, these rules are gone over in detail. It's hard to believe that the coaches were left to interpret the rules themselves. Just because they attention in black and white on the website doesn't mean they aren't there. There are minutes. Also there are was to call plaids in a game so that the score doesn't get out of hand,whether it's taking longer to calling a play, running all inside plays, etc..

[fox]

Oh, I forgot. Yes, I could call the police and ask that he be detained for harassment if I am doing nothing wrong (which is most like the case from what I can gather) and he is following me around with a camera in my face. Also called stalking and borders on an assault if you know the law and how it is defined. He is on a slippery slope.

you are the type of person the police talk about at the end of shift……smh

[1212kmg]

"You are the type of person the police talk about at the end of shift……smh."

The point to be taken by that is that he is not the police and should not go around policing people's behavior at a youth football game. Leave that to the police. I wasn't saying that I would call the police necessarily but he is not operating with a full stack if he thinks that may not or cannot happen with his behavior. He is only antagonizing people by doing it. Get a grip -- if you see someone acting out of line -- go grab the police officer who is patrolling the game if there is one or call them. Wow! You only see what you want to see sometimes. . . .

vp93 -- if the coaches signed off on the rules, then great -- show them a copy and remind them. the problem is you can't predict every possible scenario that could arise so either get rid of the rule altogether or implement one that isn't subject to numerous interpretations (e.g. stop the game if the score variation reaches a certain point and then end of story).

[Luvyablue]

I'm talking about this year not years past. The question was asked regarding the "spirit" / running up the score rule. The coaches asked for a number. They were told it was a judgement call and they didn't want it defined.

Are you joking about the rules being spelled out in black and white on the website...why even post them at all then? I have a copy of the coaches code of conduct. Same problem. So you want a scripted game?? Why even have coaches or a game with rules, etc? Rules shouldn't have to be explained in detail. They should be simple and applied equally to everyone. Football is a black and white game. You don't have these problems in baseball. It's pretty cut and dried. In fact, if a violation occurs you either speak up before the next pitch is thrown or you move on in the game. You don't analyze fan video trying to find violations....The game also ends when a certain amount of runs are scored.....
Rules ensure an equal playing field not equal outcomes......

[1212kmg]

And I can only imagine a handful of circumstances that would really warrant calling the police. It is outlandish to think he or anyone believes it is okay for him to go around intimidating people with his Go Pro Camera when he (a mere STJFL Board member) thinks the may be acting inappropriately. Once again - a very subjective interpretation. It is hysterical that anyone thinks this is normal.

[Baba Ganoush]

"...end of story." Yeah, obviously. (To be read sarcastically)

[aggieffmedic87]

Being a safety kind of guy the biggest issue I have seen from all of this nonsense happens when a team get tot the threshold and the team makes the changes to keep from scoring or running up the score. You put in the kids that are not as good but the team your playing is still headhunting with their first team kids... This is why my own son is still out with a concussion. Something has to be done in order to keep the kids safe. I have played and coached football a long time and know how violent it is. We are setting ourselves up for bigger problems down the road unless something it corrected. 

 

We also need to address the helmet to helmet hits. Had more than 3 or 4 yesterday in one of our games... These are going to happen but the officials need to make the call. I spoke with the ones that were calling our game yesterday since I also our Heads Up Football Safety Coach. All 3 of them had a different interpretation of that rule. This has to be fixed... 

[thetragichippy]

And I can only imagine a handful of circumstances that would really warrant calling the police. It is outlandish to think he or anyone believes it is okay for him to go around intimidating people with his Go Pro Camera when he (a mere STJFL Board member) thinks the may be acting inappropriately. Once again - a very subjective interpretation. It is hysterical that anyone thinks this is normal.

 

I will say again, there is nothing illegal with anyone filming coaches or players at a public event. If the school district property is considered private property, then it would be up to the school district to establish rules.......

 

So, if you want, you can get your camera and film him filming you.........nothing illegal.

 

http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policepractices/your-right-record-and-observe-police/taking-photos-video-and-audio/

 

This is one link......there are several that say the same thing.

[aggieffmedic87]

Actually it does fall under an infringement of personal space... lol....

[aggieffmedic87]

I will say again, there is nothing illegal with anyone filming coaches or players at a public event. If the school district property is considered private property, then it would be up to the school district to establish rules.......

 

So, if you want, you can get your camera and film him filming you.........nothing illegal.

 

http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policepractices/your-right-record-and-observe-police/taking-photos-video-and-audio/

 

This is one link......there are several that say the same thing.

 

 

Actually it does fall under an infringement of personal space... lol....

[1212kmg]

He is harassing people if he is going up to them with the camera to "silence" them or whatever he wants to call it. He is going to insight a riot with those sort of antics. That is my point on his efforts to get spectators to conform to his rules. You are missing my point entirely.

[Baba Ganoush]

Haha, the old classic "go pro riot technique." That statement gives us "insight" to your mentality. If filming you starts a riot, it would be common sense to believe you "incited" the riot.

[1212kmg]

My last post was addressing the link posted by "thetragichippy." I was not saying he could not video the game, etc. if he is in a public space. However, by his own statement, he is doing more than just videoing a public sporting event. He has taken on the role of security basically by trying to monitor the parents, etc. A bullet from the article you posted which bolsters my point:

- Police officers may order citizens to cease activities that are truly interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations. In general, a court will trust an officer's judgment about what is "interfering" more than yours. So if an officer orders you to stand back, do so.

I would say security is up to the police and no one else. Once he turns from the public sporting event itself (the game) and starts narrowing down on individuals, his "intent" and "purpose" has changed and that is where I see a problem.

[1212kmg]

I was also saying in several posts earlier that he should not be using the video of the game in the STJFL board proceedings against the coaches b/c their by-laws don't allow the use of video or other demonstrative evidence. That is my main point and what really all started this post be he opened a can of worms by admitting he goes around videoing individuals who he thinks are out of line.