YouCanUseaMint

I don't want to get too into it with the OP, but I'll offer a Texas State fan's assessment as to why this jump makes sense. 1. You already schedule body bag games with BCS teams, why not collect a higher paycheck? Sometimes 2-3 times the amount? 2. Consider your peers, academic wise. How do you like being associated with Nicholls St, Southeastern LA, Prison U, Stephen F Austin, TAMU-Corpus? Do you feel they are at LU's level for academics? Or would you rather be associated with Utah State, University of Idaho, San Jose State, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, University of Denver? A handful of these WAC schools are the best, second, or third best academic schools in their respective state. 3. To be frank, if you go WAC you would be choosing the worst FBS conference available (football wise). Some see this as a bad thing, but I see it as an opportunity. What better way to grow and transition your program than in a conference with schools who already aren't that much better than yourself? 4. TV opportunities and exposure are much greater in an FBS conference and judging by TV ratings of the FCS national championship, any one of the toilet bowls garners more attention than the game currently held in Frisco (and toilet bowls aren't incredibly hard to get into). 5. You'll see an increase in quality of OOC opponents coming to play you at home. At Texas State (since last Nov), we've already scheduled Texas Tech, Navy, Nevada, and Wyoming in San Marcos with much more to come! I think in Lamar and Sam Houston's cases, it's a matter of not being left behind. And while I am quick to harp on Prison U's desire, I completely understand it. I don't want to even think of the replacements the Southland selects should another school or two leave the conference for either budget reasons (LA) or conference realignment (SHSU/LU).

[quote name="basketball25" post="977275" timestamp="1299243439"] [b]Texas can afford  to do that!!![/b] Look at there program compared to lamars, playing in the big 12 and southland is totally different  those games don't hurt Texas!!! [/quote] I actually agree here.. You have to look at overall SOS, not just ooc SOS. Texas State schedules big teams for ooc because conference competition isn't ranked high at all. In order to get a little respect, you have to earn it.

[quote name="time2time" post="977098" timestamp="1299208094"]  Finally RPI may be wonderful, but TxState had a strong RPI last season and they did not make "THE" tournament but Lamar did. [/quote] Texas State didn't make the tournament last year because of the games dropped to Nicholls. We were on the bubble rpi wise, but when all said was done after a loss to Lamar, we were edged out by other teams on the edge.

[quote name="bigred360" post="975365" timestamp="1299093771"] Personally, I'll take Texas State fan's over SFA any day. [/quote] I'd almost take anyone over SFA...

[quote name="Bearkat25" post="975338" timestamp="1299091415"] [quote][/quote][quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=79479.msg975132#msg975132 date=1299045118] [quote author=Bearkat25 link=topic=79479.msg974907#msg974907 date=1299029739] I really do hope that you guys jump over to the WAC and beat the heck out of Texas State for being so arrogant! Ever since they joined the WAC their fans have been overly arrogant on fan message boards! If only they woud realize that they weren't the first choice to join the WAC. If you guys join and we don't just know that you've got one bearkat on your side! [/quote] [b]How are we arrogant again?[/b][/quote] Not all Texas State fans are arrogant just some of you.  It seems like Texas State is always looking down on LU and SHSU. Whether its academics, athletics or even LU potentially joining the WAC I always hear, “We are trying to get away from those schools. They aren’t our peers!”  But, it could just be a small few that makes everyone look bad though…. [/quote] Actually, a number of Texas State fans want Lamar in the WAC. Much rather them over Utah Valley or CSU Bakersfield. Can't say the same about Sam, but don't take it personally. It's like you get all excited that you're leaving for greener pastures only to have the same dead grass follow you there. See Boise and the MWC. Once they get there; Utah, TCU, and BYU bolt only to be replaced with Hawaii, Reno, and Fresno. And don't try and act like there hasn't been hatred on yall's side either. Now on Academics, I'll still say Texas State deserves flagship, but I can also recognize engineering is better at Lamar, while CJ and golf instruction is better at Prison U. :)

[quote name="Bearkat25" post="974907" timestamp="1299029739"] I really do hope that you guys jump over to the WAC and beat the heck out of Texas State for being so arrogant! Ever since they joined the WAC their fans have been overly arrogant on fan message boards! If only they woud realize that they weren't the first choice to join the WAC. If you guys join and we don't just know that you've got one bearkat on your side! [/quote] How are we arrogant again?

[quote name="jdcurran" post="961340" timestamp="1296922796"] If you read the chatter on SHSU's board it is very possible they could move up.  I would rather just see LU move up solo, but at the same time I am not against any school trying to better themselves.  In fact that is what they are supposed to do. [/quote] "Moving up" isn't a decision that's made overnight. Sammie State isn't ready, nor do I think they will ever be.

[quote name="JJWooten" post="955242" timestamp="1296076144"] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=78804.msg955224#msg955224 date=1296074082] If there were an actual "Toilet Bowl" it would get better TV ratings than the FCS championship game! [/quote] I bet a of people turned in during the halftime of TAMU-LSU to watch one of the best FCS comebacks of the decade. Can you name any of the teams that played in the early December games? I know I can't and they were on Primetime ESPN. [/quote] Come on JJ, you can't deny the "Toilet Bowl" still offers more recognition, nationally and regionally. More fans come to the game and more people watch the game on ESPN, regardless of if it's on a Tuesday night or not. Not too long ago, I came across last year's FCS National Championship Nielsen rating (UM-Villanova) and a couple of days later, Nielsen released their ratings for this year's bowl games. The FCS NC garnered a 1.3 rating. Notice that is lower than any of this year's bowl games.. [img][Hidden Content]] And how many actually attended the NC game in Frisco? Wasn't it something like 13k? That's about what Texas State draws at a home game!

Just last season, Rice had a home game with UT at Reliant.. Now, I don't know if they got a paycheck or if it was a 2-1 deal where the one game UT traveled to was Reliant.

[quote name="bigred360" post="948125" timestamp="1295030993"] Can we raise the money for travel, salaries and renovation and new construction to be competitive in the WAC? [/quote] The beauty of living in Texas is if you can't afford it, you can go ask the students  ;)

[quote name="1KatKiller" post="948109" timestamp="1295030158"] Check out these head coaching salaries for the WAC by USA today.  Rumor is that Mark Hudspeth at USL got 350-375K with incentives as well. Following are the WAC coaches' salaries, according to USA Today report: $450,000 — Sonny Dykes, Louisiana Tech; $403,820 — Mike McIntyre, San Jose State; $375,000 — DeWayne Walker, New Mexico State; $354,400 — Gary Andersen, Utah State; $350,000 — Dennis Franchione, Texas State; $263,187 — Robb Ankeny, Idaho; $200,000 — Larry Coker, UTSA. Any ideas on where Coach Woodard would rank here if the jump is made? [/quote] Isn't he getting 130-140K? Budget for assistants would have to increase as well. We nearly doubled our budget for assistants from $400K to $800K -$1 mill

[quote name="bigred360" post="948088" timestamp="1295028082"] Do you guys see SHSU coming if Lamar leaves for the WAC as they really need two more schools? [/quote] Nope. Remember, this league still has western schools.. We need to be thinking about who we can be adding in the Utah-New Mexico-California triangle (that is if UNT, Montana/MontanaSt, UCD, etc don't come calling back).

Also, consider the change in academic standing of your peers [u]WAC[/u] Texas State Texas - San Antonio Utah State Denver San Jose State Idaho Louisiana Tech New Mexico State [u]Southland[/u] Nicholls State Northwestern State McNeese State Sam Houston State Stephen F. Austin State Central Arkansas Southeastern LA Texas - Arlington Texas A&M - CC

[quote name="JJWooten" post="940913" timestamp="1293949603"] [quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=78052.msg940910#msg940910 date=1293948832] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=78052.msg940888#msg940888 date=1293943278] In a few weeks the NCAA will decide if the WAC can keep their auto-bid to the basketball tourney.  If that doesn't pass then I doubt Lamar would join the WAC.  After that obstacle then Lamar has to figure out how to increase it's budget because they'll have a hard time being successful with a $11 million budget.  It needs to be at least $15 million to keep up with the other teams in the WAC. There's also the issue of facilities.  The Montagne Center will fit right in the WAC although a new scoreboard would be nice.  Vincent-Beck is about to be renovated so that's a plus.  I think the softball field is planned for 2013, which would mean they would start softball about the same time they'd start transitioning to FBS, so that would take care of the title 12 requirements. The football stadium holds 16K so it needs to be expanded if Lamar goes FBS.  Let's say Lamar announces they'll join the WAC in 2013, they'll  be bowl eligible in 2015.  That would give them about 4 years to expand the stadium.  This gives them time to finish the other renovations. I don't think Lamar wants to stay in the SLC long term but if they join the WAC they'll still play a few more years at the FCS level before moving up.  We'll see what happens. [/quote] I know my opinion doesn't matter, but Lamar is the only Texas team I want elevated with us and UTSA into the WAC. Yall would solidify an eastern division with TXST, UTSA, LU, LATECH, and NMSU. What's enrollment at these days? Student fees are an easy fix for the budget if your enrollment is decent enough.. it's what's bank rolling us to FBS [/quote] And LU will be a team that TSU-SM can actually beat in that division.  ;D ;D [/quote] You're right. Maybe I need to reconsider SFA so we can keep our annual win  ;)

[quote name="coachacola" post="940888" timestamp="1293943278"] In a few weeks the NCAA will decide if the WAC can keep their auto-bid to the basketball tourney.  If that doesn't pass then I doubt Lamar would join the WAC.  After that obstacle then Lamar has to figure out how to increase it's budget because they'll have a hard time being successful with a $11 million budget.  It needs to be at least $15 million to keep up with the other teams in the WAC. There's also the issue of facilities.  The Montagne Center will fit right in the WAC although a new scoreboard would be nice.  Vincent-Beck is about to be renovated so that's a plus.  I think the softball field is planned for 2013, which would mean they would start softball about the same time they'd start transitioning to FBS, so that would take care of the title 12 requirements. The football stadium holds 16K so it needs to be expanded if Lamar goes FBS.  Let's say Lamar announces they'll join the WAC in 2013, they'll  be bowl eligible in 2015.  That would give them about 4 years to expand the stadium.  This gives them time to finish the other renovations. I don't think Lamar wants to stay in the SLC long term but if they join the WAC they'll still play a few more years at the FCS level before moving up.  We'll see what happens. [/quote] I know my opinion doesn't matter, but Lamar is the only Texas team I want elevated with us and UTSA into the WAC. Yall would solidify an eastern division with TXST, UTSA, LU, LATECH, and NMSU. What's enrollment at these days? Student fees are an easy fix for the budget if your enrollment is decent enough.. it's what's bank rolling us to FBS

[quote name="geezer" post="940243" timestamp="1293811674"] If you wind up with four super conferences, then a playoff for the National Title becomes more realistic.  Each conference gets one rep and you have two semifinal and one title game. [/quote] I have to side with  UNLV.. Imagine if Texas didn't have Wyoming, Rice, and FAU on their schedule. They would have won two games.. Those big schools don't care about shutting us out because, in a sense, we already are. Those schools NEED us for their body bag games and don't want a playoff system for monetary reasons

[quote name="kingkat99" post="940256" timestamp="1293814955"] I would ask this question though of my Bearkats or your Cardinals before getting on the lets move up bandwagon, and that is if we are just going to move up to the WAC with all the other Texas SLC schools except maybe SFA what is the point other than being able to say you are now "FBS" and you get to go to a toilet bowl on occassion and possibly bring in a bi name opponent once every 5 or 10 years? [/quote] The toilet bowl is still televised on ESPN, more regional and potentially national recognition, playing opponents that interest more people (even if they're OOC games), playing big BCS teams for a loss and garnering a bigger paycheck, being associated with higher profile schools (academic and athletic), getting higher profile recruits, and so on..

[quote name="puddin tane" post="862266" timestamp="1285908400"] [quote author=westendfirst link=topic=73729.msg862168#msg862168 date=1285902979] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=73729.msg861571#msg861571 date=1285866255] Hawaii is talking about leaving the WAC for the Big West (football goes independent).  There's rumors that TCU is talking to the Big East which means the MWC could take Utah State.  The WAC will eventually become the new "southwest conference" with very few west coast teams.  The SLC is becoming weaker and weaker as a conference and I doubt Simmons and Tidwell will allow Lamar to stick around for that. [/quote] I'm trying to figure out what is so impressive about UTSA and Texas State.  Sam, SFA, and McNeese all have much better athletics than they do. [/quote] cuz its the hill country..dont you know everything is better out there..... ::) [/quote] Simple: $$$

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="854471" timestamp="1285271521"] [quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=73320.msg854394#msg854394 date=1285265164] [quote author=ECBucFan link=topic=73320.msg853903#msg853903 date=1285198012] [quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=73320.msg853799#msg853799 date=1285185468] SFA is good, but they aren't unbeatable. [/quote] Thats true. Texas A&M just beat them, and so did [b]Montana in the FCS Quarterfinals last season. [/b] [/quote] And did you see the score?  :o [/quote] Yes I did. The 'Jacks don't do so well in -10 below temps, 40mph winds, and having 6 or 7 turnovers. Whats your point? I just listed two losses, what do you want?    [/quote] What was my point? I already said it - SFA isn't unbeatable. And that isn't a good excuse for not scoring... Texas State lost at Montana in 2008, but the score wasn't THAT lopsided (31-13 UM). Can't wait to play SFA this year, though.. I think SLC play will come down to SFA and TXST. 

[quote name="ECBucFan" post="853903" timestamp="1285198012"] [quote author=YouCanUseaMint link=topic=73320.msg853799#msg853799 date=1285185468] SFA is good, but they aren't unbeatable. [/quote] Thats true. Texas A&M just beat them, and so did [b]Montana in the FCS Quarterfinals last season. [/b] [/quote] And did you see the score?  :o

SFA is good, but they aren't unbeatable. Texas State showed this last year when they toppled the jacks 28-7 in San Marcos. This Bobcat will be cheering on the Cards for sure.

[quote name="puddin tane" post="852942" timestamp="1285091473"] [quote author=coachacola link=topic=73261.msg852891#msg852891 date=1285087555] From what I can gather from several message boards Lamar will be talking to the WAC next week along with these schools: UTSA, Texas St., Denver, Seattle and Montana. [Hidden Content] [Hidden Content] [/quote] [i] UTSA, Texas St., Denver, Seattle and Montana[/i] there's some schools nobody could give at rats arse about..only one worth a spit is MT and you cant beat them at home-home cooking to the max-...think it was done this yr for the first time in forever.... Denver? Seattle?...whoo hoo!  I'd rather watch paint dry [/quote] As far as conference mates, I see it as: LaTech > McNeese, SELU TXST > Sam UTSA > SFA Hawaii > Southland as a whole SJSU, USU, ID = NwST, Nicholls Denver, Seattle = TAMUCC, UTA

[quote name="pwdonaldson" post="848325" timestamp="1284603328"] [quote author=LU4LIFE link=topic=72367.msg848314#msg848314 date=1284602099] pwdonaldson are you talking about Texas State or LAMAR can't sell out the 16k stadium? [/quote] I'm talking about Texas State.  You guys are going to sell out your first few games this year and maybe even the entire season, depending on your record midseason.  It's my personal opinion that your sellouts won't continue but as others have pointed out, I don't have any proof of that. [/quote] Not trying to be rude, but athletics are about money. You don't NEED a consistently winning product to field a FBS team, you need money. Pride? It comes with winning, which can indirectly be tied with the amount you are willing to spend on your head coach. Texas State isn't going about this move without the funding and facilities needed (like we tried in the past). The reason we will NOT become the next ULM? Because our budget is already twice what theirs is - and it is still on the rise. We cannot sell out the stadium we have because of the competitors we face. It isn't your fault you are not well known in Texas, or that our apathetic fans don't care to see you. Keep in mind we are the 5th largest university in Texas and roughly twice the size of SELU. Dog on us all you want, but roughly 90% capacity for a DII team isn't bad. And to your point about the money being used towards something else, get a grip. Students are paying ridiculous fees to help fund this. We voted for it, we are paying for it. It is what we the students want. To the Sam, Lamar, SLC, whoever: if you believe this is such a stupid and idiotic move, then PLEASE don't follow us to FBS. Stay FCS where you can make the playoffs, maybe one you yall can become the next Montana.

[quote name="SabineRavine" post="847686" timestamp="1284514455"] That's the lack of justification I was expecting.  Surely UNLV's professors taught you that past performance is no indication of future results.  I'm assuming you are talking about attendance values from 30 years ago.  Do you think LU administrators should be using that as their rationale, or should they be looking at hard data from similar models?    You said LU became a flop when switching to FCS.  [b]Would you be willing to say there are no schools that became a flop (poor record, low attendance, budgetary problems) when switching to FBS?[/b] I'm curious though . . . you say a "packed house" occurred when Lamar played at the highest level.  I saw that when Lamar plays an NAIA team, a sellout.  It appears that there is no lack of community support.  So, why the need to move up? [/quote] There are also schools that have had success after moving up. Troy is the first that comes to my mind. Their budget isn't big, but they manage to field a winning product. Curious to why only the ULMs of the world come to mind when you think of FCS transitions..

[quote name="UNLV" post="847126" timestamp="1284471624"] You don't see UTSA fans trying to stomp out UTSA growth... So who replaces UTSA and Texas st in the SLC?    [b]I think Tarleton st and Kingsville[/b]. [/quote] Well that sounds like.... friendly competition  ;D