Rough Play

[takemeouttotheballgame]

Well, apparently rough play was the theme for the night last night.  According to the posts I've read here, the Deweyville/EC game, the Vidor/LCM game, and the Orangefield/HJ game were all that way.  Let me add another to the list... the Silsbee/Jasper game - the refs were so random in their calls - they were quick to whistle touch fouls, and let other obvious ones go beyond the point of reason.  People were getting poked in the eyes, shoved down to the floor from behind, whacked in the head, arms twisted, ankles stomped.  I was in disbelief.  I'll give the refs credit though, it wasn't  one sided - they were missing and mistaking both ways!!  Technical fouls were called on both teams.... for "unsportsmanlike conduct"..... in both cases pure frustration had set in due to a stream of missed calls, and players lost their cool.  Maybe some of the refs are just getting tired... and ready to hang up their whistles for the season.  Anyway.... the Lady Tigers did prevail and I am looking forward to cheering them on in the playoffs.............................  "All the way to Austin, Ladies!"

[LuvThoseCats]

Girl's basketball overall is getting pretty rough. I know one of our Orangefield girls last night had a red slap mark on her face, and another got a pretty good jab in the eye. No fouls were called on either play, and the slap came when she was shooting. That's not to say Orangefield didn't foul, because they did, but they don't lay out their opponents in the process. If the contact is made because of good hustle and inadvertantly fouling, that is one thing. The problem is, more and more seems to be deliberate just to see how much they can get away with. There is a lot of ramming the shoulder into a defender and initiating of contact by the ball handler. I also saw some good old "stiff-arming" football-style in another game. The officials need to take control right off the bat and it wouldn't get out of hand. I'm glad I'm not a ref, though. One of them at last nights game in OF literally ran off the court when the buzzer sounded.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

The girls game is pretty rough. I was watching Candace Parker play the other night versus Georgia and a couple of GA players took some really nasty falls in that game that were no calls.

[Buc Backer]

I was at the Vidor/Lumberton game at Lumberton a couple of weeks ago and one of Lumberton's girls punched one of Vidor's girls in the face right in front of the referee and he claimed he didn't see it.  Vidor's coach was livid and so were the rest of Vidor's fans and I don't blame them.  I don't know if the refs can't actually believe what their own eyes are telling them or what then by the time they decide they did see it, it is too late to call anything...... :-\

[Slam14]

I know that referees have a tough job, but there have been very few games this year that I have thought were really well officiated.  As the year wore on it continued to get worse.  Last night's LCM/Vidor game was terrible. If you are not going to play the part...at least fake it.  One of the officials in last nights game "walked" around all night long standing in the backcourt looking half interested in the game.  The game would have been better if they had played with street ball rules of letting the girls call their own fouls.

To top the whole night off, after one of the Vidor players had to leave the game with a bloody nose, the referees called time out and called both teams together to warn them about rough play ------WITH 43 SECONDS LEFT IN THE GAME!

Please...if you call the game like it should be from the start it wouldn't get to that point.

The best officiated game I saw all year was LCM/Ozen. "Thank you" to the 2 men that called that game.  It was actually a basketball game.

 

[CRUSHCOACH]

Another pretty good called game was the LCM vs Lumberton game at LCM when they actually pulled someone out of the stands, from the Lumberton crowd to help the one official call. That game stayed under controll all game.

This is the worst year I have ever seen in girls basketball for officials. It's getting to where the team that is the roughest will be the team to win, not the team that can shoot and play good "D".

Defense now consists of fouling someone as hard as you can without getting a whistle blown! The team that can foul the most will win.

I now the Ref's have a tough job, but, my gosh if you are going to referee, use the dad gum whistle ! After all it is a whistle and not a pacifier! You have to blow in it, not suck on it. If you start a game off blowing the whistle, the teams will adjust to the calling and start playing real basketball, otherwise it's football without pads !

Ok, I'm through now ! ;D

Good Luck to all the Play-off bound teams and someone from this area bring home the State Championship !!

[CRUSHCOACH]

I know that referees have a tough job, but there have been very few games this year that I have thought were really well officiated.  As the year wore on it continued to get worse.  Last night's LCM/Vidor game was terrible. If you are not going to play the part...at least fake it.  One of the officials in last nights game "walked" around all night long standing in the backcourt looking half interested in the game.  The game would have been better if they had played with street ball rules of letting the girls call their own fouls.

To top the whole night off, after one of the Vidor players had to leave the game with a bloody nose, the referees called time out and called both teams together to warn them about rough play ------WITH 43 SECONDS LEFT IN THE GAME!Please...if you call the game like it should be from the start it wouldn't get to that point.

The best officiated game I saw all year was LCM/Ozen. "Thank you" to the 2 men that called that game.  It was actually a basketball game.

 

AT least they took control of the final 40 seconds ! That's better than some games I've seen this year ! ;D

[Buc Backer]

Inconsistent calls are the worst.  They are very frustrating to the players.  In one game at the BC Tournament in December, one of the referees repeatedly warned a player that if she didn't quit fouling, he was going to have to start calling her fouls.  ??? Isn't that his job??? (During the game the day before, she fouled out in 1 1/2 quarters of play and she hadn't backed off one bit the day we played her team.)  The referee wasn't giving any of our players that option, he just called the foul.  I'm not saying that our team didn't foul, just in comparison with what she was allowed to "get away with"  our girls weren't even in the same ballpark with her......  I know it is hard to watch everything at all times and call all that should be called.  Most refs hearts are in the right place but it's their eyesight I worry about ;D!!!  Just kidding.  The best referees we have had all year were at home, EC against Kountze and also they weren't bad at Kountze either.  I think the girls were just lucky enough to get outstanding refs because our boys' teams are highly ranked in state and the girls got the crumbs.....OH well, such is life!!  Thank you to those referees for a great job.

[Slam14]

CRUSHCOACH,

  I'm surprised you got to see the final 43 seconds!!!!!!!!  I know there was at least 1 game you didn't get to hear the final buzzer from INSIDE the gym!

 If I recall correctly, it was that same "pacifier" comment that the ref to exception to.

[CRUSHCOACH]

CRUSHCOACH,

  I'm surprised you got to see the final 43 seconds!!!!!!!!  I know there was at least 1 game you didn't get to hear the final buzzer from INSIDE the gym!

 If I recall correctly, it was that same "pacifier" comment that the ref to exception to.

Yep, well I had too many eyes watching last night. And with softball around the corner, I wanted to make sure I don't have to miss any games. I love giving the Softball Umpires heck!! Of course they don't have a whistle to suck on !

[Guest bleed orange]

I have been saying this all year long. Was nobody listening. Kids don't play defense anymore. They don't have to. The game has gotten way to rough and someone is going to get hurt. When the kids are so mad they want to fight, there is a problem. Also you wonder why crowds have gotten more rowdy. Because they let the kids play to rough, so they can get the game over with. In the future it won't be just the kids fighting, it will be the parents also. I have seen some clean games this year but not many. What happen to the good old days?

[Guest tigersvoice]

Bleed Orange, surely you don't remember all the way back to when basketball was a NON-contact sport?

[Buc Backer]

tigersvoice says

Bleed Orange, surely you don't remember all the way back to when basketball was a NON-contact sport?

You remember it too?  You mean it wasn't a pleasant dream....Boy those were the days. ;D

[takemeouttotheballgame]

Boy, did I open a can of worms!!! LOL.  Seriously though, one of the Silsbee players had the sleeve of her jersey ripped during the game Tuesday night, and it wasn't even on a seam.  It was a rip right through the fabric.    How does something like THAT happen without anyone seeing? Another left the court with  a scratch down half the length of her shoulder that was showing blood. Girls had slap marks and knots and various other signs of roughness.  Some of this can happen in the course of good hustle, but that was not the case Tuesday night.  I'm not saying that all refereeing is bad - by any means.  It's just that lately things really seem to be getting out of control.  And the referees have been late for the last three JV starts for Silsbee -  what's that about?  Could it be an indication of their enthusiasm for the job at hand?  Okay.... enough is enough.  I will get off my soapbox, but not before saying thank you to all the good refs out there.  Without you, the games I enjoy so much would not be possible.  I know your job is thankless and I for one would not put myself in your shoes..... the extent of my refereeing experience is limited to Little Dribblers, and that was murderous.... can't imagine what it's like to referee at the high school level.

[Guest bleed orange]

Yes I do remember those days and I am not really that old.   I am one of the parents that sit in the stands and say nothing except cheering the kids on. I don't yell at the officials because I once was one. Not basketball but football. So I kind of know whats its like. I too don't want to harp on the officials becauses it is a thankless job. But something need to be done before it gets out of control. It is heading in that direction. I don't watch th NBA anymore because of poor fundamentals, they mug each others and are overpayed. I loved watching college and high school because it is still a pure sport. But things are changing and not for the better.  :'(

[Buc Backer]

Posted by: bleed orange 

Yes I do remember those days and I am not really that old.  I am one of the parents that sit in the stands and say nothing except cheering the kids on. I don't yell at the officials because I once was one. Not basketball but football. So I kind of know whats its like. I too don't want to harp on the officials becauses it is a thankless job. But something need to be done before it gets out of control. It is heading in that direction. I don't watch th NBA anymore because of poor fundamentals, they mug each others and are overpayed. I loved watching college and high school because it is still a pure sport. But things are changing and not for the better. 

I'm not that old either  and I agree 100%.  I don't like NBA basketball anymore either and for the same reasons you stated.  It's a shame that our kids can't learn anything positive from watching the professionals of the sport....and I'm speaking about fundamentals and such.  I'm sure that there are good people that play in the NBA but they get overshadowed by all the "power players" and their antics, on and off the court (but that's another subject altogether!!! )

I agree something needs to be done about the level of contact allowed in basketball.  We used to joke about "No blood, no foul..." but I think somehow that was taken seriously.  I have heard people comment that players just play at a higher intensity now a days but I don't buy that at all.  You can play at a very high level of intensity without all of the things we see permitted on the court today. 

[hjhawks]

Ok... here goes....

I have coached at the high school varsity level for girls and boys and also at the junior high level.... here is my take.

First,  Girls foul alot!  Speed is a big factor as far as being able to move as a defender.  Most high school girls players lack this speed, so there is always alot more contact than in the boys game.

Second, girls are aggressive. (watch two girls fight over a jump ball if you don't know what I'm talking about... They usually end with one being tossed to the floor)

Third, Most girls aren't strong enough to take contact without it affecting their balance, therefore they often end up layed out on the floor.

Finally, young (or inexperienced) refs usually fall into a trap of missing a call, and then missing another call to make up for the first missed call.  This is a dangerous thing to do as games can spiral out of control quickly!

As a coach, all I could do was stress proper defense and footwork!  When games get rough, there are times when I try to get a technical foul... not to show up an official..(It is a tough job... try it sometime if you think it is easy) but rather to draw their attention to the rough play.  Usually this slowed things down a bit.... but sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.  If an official called every foul in some games they would end up with both teams fouling out before half time!

-Mike

[Buc Backer]

I have always observed that if the refs start out calling the game close, the players (boys or girls) will adjust and the ref can establish control then they can always back off a little.  But once they start the game with "anything goes" they can never get the control needed to keep the game from getting dangerous.  I agree that the referees have a very difficult task.  I agree wholeheartedly with you that refs call "make up" calls, only to try to be fair mind you, or they wouldn't care if they made up a bad call at all.  That is a very hard thing not to do but also a dangerous thing because as you said, it can cause things to spiral out of control quickly. 

[bobcatfan33]

I don't know if this is the case else where, but Orangefield Little Dribblers the girls and boys are so rough I can't even stand to watch.  When I played (not to too long ago) I got a foul for thinking about fouling, I fouled out more then half of the games I ever played!  Now you can knock someone down and its ok!  Then when the more advanced players get tackled by a not so talented player to get a steal its like they praise the kid!  Its teaching bad habits for these younger kids.  I know its a great program, but they need to teach these players, so when they get into high school they actually know whats right and wrong.

[Guest bleed orange]

I went up to the gym to give my daughter something and decided to watch part of a 7-8 year old girls game. At that age they are not real rough. But what I witnessed was parents and coaches going crazy. I could not believe all the yelling going on. It was worst than a Varsity game. There is a solution to "rough play" at the little dribbler level. When I was involved in the league, it was a running clock. So if an official is worried about the game lasting to long, it won't matter. Go to the league president and tell him your concern. I promise he is a great guy and will listen. If nobody ever says anything then nothing will be done. I assume it is still a running clock. It should not matter how many fouls they call. But then again if you were at the coldspring game, look how rough that was. I honestly think it is to the point of no return. I hope I am wrong.

[Slam14]

The real problem is that you can't stop it now.  It's too wide-spread.

If you teach your kids non-aggresive, limited contact basketball they will get killed!

[Guest bleed orange]

I agree with you slam. The game is changed forever.