ST413

[quote name="RP3" post="777147" timestamp="1268628012"] [quote author=ST413 link=topic=67299.msg777144#msg777144 date=1268627645] [quote author=RP3 link=topic=67299.msg777140#msg777140 date=1268627353] OK you can play the what if game all you like...Bottom line is you must win TWO games in Austin to be state champion. MOST of the Silsbee contingent probably realize that fact...Its just a few others that always try to come up with some great conspiracy theory as to why some teams do what they do in the playoffs.  Hey, Lubbock Estacado played great and got the job done....Dallas Madison made it back to the championship game which is an accomplisment in itself...It is just that...no excuses...Its these message board "experts" with all of these "conclusions" that I have issue with right now...I asked if there was any proof of any wrong doing and the answer was no....Then I asked who they had concerns or had drawn "conclusions" about and why, and still have received no feedback.  If you lose in the regionals, the first round or the state finals, please do not try to "conclude" that others have to cheat to accomplish what they have. [/quote] I don't think the two I believe you are referring to here are actually part of your o called "Silsbee contingent".  I believe they ar actually fans of other teams.  I do think they had stated that thy thought the Tigers had a good shot at winning it all though. [/quote] I do realize that...From what I have seen on here the Silsbee faithful  pull for their guys and when its all over they will give credit where it is due, and move on. For the most part....There are others on here that continue to attempt to persecute and/or find reasons for others success....i.e. "conclusions" about "recruiting" players and such....Its not a huge deal, I am just clarifying my statement to you. I see who it is and who its not, and I really just want to know why it has to be that way with them. [/quote] Fair enough.  It is hard to move on this year especially.  The last time we were in Austin when Kennedale beat us the biggest difference to me seemed to be size.  They were the better team, don't get me wrong,  but  they were shooting over top of us and altering our shots due to their size. Not to mention rebounding.  This year we had a team that wasn't going to be put in that position.  Our size matched up with any 3A team out there and we had skills to go with that height.  So our fans had big expectations.  The boys played their hearts out.  They played like champions unfortunately,  Madison played better thursday and now we can only speculate. No one is more proud of them than I am.  I am not a relative, a school official or even a close personal friend of any of them although  friends with some of the familie due to the number of games my wife and I attend.  I doubt there is anyone aside from maybe AAW and some of the families that has seen them play the last two or three years as much as we have.  I feel for them,  I know how bad they wanted it but they have every reason to be proud.  Their record the last few years speaks for itself.  I know of 1 other team that has been as consistent the last 4 years.  The other 3  teams in Austin may have been as well.  Well no Stafford can't be because we beat them in the second or third round the last year they were in region 3.  We fans know the Tigers had the talent to win it all but we also know the team that played the best in Austin was Estacado. As far as any of these other allegations it doesn't matter,  you have to beat the opponent in front of you.

[quote name="RP3" post="777140" timestamp="1268627353"] OK you can play the what if game all you like...Bottom line is you must win TWO games in Austin to be state champion. MOST of the Silsbee contingent probably realize that fact...Its just a few others that always try to come up with some great conspiracy theory as to why some teams do what they do in the playoffs.  Hey, Lubbock Estacado played great and got the job done....Dallas Madison made it back to the championship game which is an accomplisment in itself...It is just that...no excuses...Its these message board "experts" with all of these "conclusions" that I have issue with right now...I asked if there was any proof of any wrong doing and the answer was no....Then I asked who they had concerns or had drawn "conclusions" about and why, and still have received no feedback.  If you lose in the regionals, the first round or the state finals, please do not try to "conclude" that others have to cheat to accomplish what they have. [/quote] I don't think the two I believe you are referring to here are actually part of your o called "Silsbee contingent".  I believe they ar actually fans of other teams.  I do think they had stated that thy thought the Tigers had a good shot at winning it all though.

[quote name="JMT" post="777136" timestamp="1268626758"] Had Silsbee played them, Stallworth would've had the length, footwork and necessary athleticism to give Wagner fits. [/quote] Can't wait to see him next year no matter how far the team goes.  He will be the leader.  No question about it. He had a senior or two this year there with him.

[quote name="RP3" post="777091" timestamp="1268621187"] laseagle: You are COMPLETELY out of line for your comments about the Silsbee coaching staff...Were you not jumping up and down and high fiving and bragging when they defeated Hardin Jefferson in the regional tournament in Huntsville, just one week ago? I mean, you DID say you were a huge fan, right? Dont be a fair weather one...If you are a fan, be a fan, NOT a dang coaching critic, because obviously thats not your day job because if it were they would all be fired and you would go out and get Billy Gillespie to coach the basketball team and go lure Todd Dodge for football!! How dare you criticize the players and coaches that go out there night after night to represent gutless people like yourself who just kick them when they are down talking about what they should have done!! Go to the Silsbee players and coaches on Monday and tell them that to their faces, at least after you are stomped in the ground I could respect you more! That is very cowardly of you to talk about the job that these men do to represent YOU in the 3A FINAL FOUR in Austin...How dare you! Some "fan" you are.... [/quote] That is one statement I definitely agree with.

[quote name="RP3" post="776937" timestamp="1268594027"] It would be really nice if some of you would just congratulate the kids and coaches and stop looking for excuses as to how and why they did it.  Try again next year Silsbee and HJ...Stop downplaying those OTHER kids' accomplishments. [/quote] Nobody is trying to downplay Estacado's win.  They won and are the state champs.  My point was they had extra incentive in two ways one all the talk after the semis and getting even with Madison after th loss in last years finals.  I didn't see the games.  I can't make too many statements on them other than from reading the stats and things that have been said.  As far as the statement DC couldn't stay with Wagner,  he may not have the speed to,  I don't know.  But the statement was a "6'4 player to put on him" .  DC is 6'3 or 6'4, I have seen both so he fits the description and has done well with other speedy guards overall, ala Turner. Estacado earned their win and I am proud of them for it.  I believe they were outrebounded by 15 and still won great accomplishment.  Now if they had faced the Tigers would the outcome have been different.  The answer is they didn't have to they beat who was in front of them.  I do feel the Tigers would have been competitive and had a chance but we didn't get there. I can say that teams with real good guars have given us trouble at times this year so it would have been tough. My  congratulations to all teams there.  They didn't get there,  they earned their way there.  Madison and Estacado really earned it,  reaching the finals two straight years.  They had big targets on their backs and reached the finals.  Congratulations to them all.

Estacado is the state champ they won th championship game and I congratulate them for it. There is one factor that has been stated on here that played a role in that: revenge for last years finals loss against Madison. Just like in a great rivalry that can be an equalizer. 

[quote name="JMT" post="776865" timestamp="1268552268"] Well the revenge factor played a big role for the Matadors. Wagner had a say in things as well. The kid is an elite athlete and makes great decisions with the ball. The way to slow him down is to put a rangy defender on him, but the one player we had with the range and athletcism to slow him down, Anthony Hollins, never did get to 100 percent this season after suffering that broken wrist in fall league. Having a guy that's 6'4" defending him for lengthy stretches would've made a difference, but it's cool. You win some and you lose some and Estacado seized the moment and just played a great game on both ends. It was their day and they earned it. [/quote] Oh I wasn't taking anything away from them.  We had a player that could have fit that description in Stallworth.  I have watched him since he was a freshman and said he would be one to watch This year I said the same thing about Gaines(he was injured and didn't play last year).  And I don't know if it was because of the defense put on him or not but looking at the stats Prentice Lane didn't have near as good a game offensively against ya'll as he usually has.  They will be a good nucleus next year. I am sure Estacado came into this game looking for revenge as well as wanting to prove they belonged there.  I am sure some of them had been hearing what was said about the Madison/Silsbee game.  I am sure they had fire in their eyes and went out and performed.  It is great to see a group of young men do that.

[quote name="LAZEEK" post="776817" timestamp="1268536568"] Where are Brady Byers and Nick Walters???  Nick Walters should at least have his name on the list for sure!!!! [/quote] Nick should definately be there as should Brady(just for his shooting he was deadly). Nick was just Mr. Basketball working hard and knowing the game, as well as a great shooter.

[quote name="JMT" post="776863" timestamp="1268550826"] [quote author=ST413 link=topic=67299.msg776667#msg776667 date=1268515277] Not expecting to be back next year? Sounds like Estacado played a great game. [/quote] Honestly I don't expect to see us down there for a 3rd straight year. We're going to have 6 sophomores on the varsity and while they're the most talented class to ever come through Madison, they just won't have the experience to get down there yet. The only way I could see us making a return trip in 2011 is if Anthony Hollins puts up around 20-22 points a game and 10 or so rebounds. I expect something close to that statline from our next big thing, but it likely won't be enough. I feel the following two years is when things will come together. [/quote] How was Estacado different in this game than against Stafford?  From all I have been hearing noon expected them to have much of a chance.  It is always tough to get back to Austin.  No matter how good Silsbee and HJ are next year they will still have to deal with Cleveland which will still have at least 4 of their starters back.  I think the fifth that was a movein is a senior.

[quote name="PoppaBearstarr" post="776738" timestamp="1268525045"] [quote author=ST413 link=topic=67299.msg776621#msg776621 date=1268507538] Silsbee and Madison may have very well been the best two teams in 3A. It just shows you have to play your best each game. For example the Tigers were obviously better than HJ the last two years yet we didn't play our best 2 out of the six games we played them. So we only won 4 out of those 6. :) :) ;) [/quote] why dont you give the record for the last ten matchups...we have been going back and fourth for years. We have been to austin twice just like yall over the last four years. [/quote] You are right we have both been twice since we have been in the same district,  but those first two I don't think it was obvious that the Tigers were better like it has been the last two. :D :D  But if you really want to know the record the last 10 games it is 6-4 in favor of the Tigers. :) :)  We split 4 games two years ago when the Tigers went to Austin.  Now if you want to go back one more year,  for the total of the last 4 that we have been in the same district.  Well then the Tigers would still lead the series 7-6. :P :P And yes before Lazeek brings it up ya'll would be ahead 1 state title to  none in that span.  This was our year to fix that but Madison was just a little too tough.  :'( :'(

A team playing 13 players in the first half hanging within 4. It could be interesting...

Blowing a 20 point lead...OK but not 88 or some of the other huge leads they have had. Those are when they should be working on other things.

Not expecting to be back next year? Sounds like Estacado played a great game.

From the looks of todays game, I am not sure New Waverly or Kountze wanted any of Ponder!

Silsbee and Madison may have very well been the best two teams in 3A. It just shows you have to play your best each game. For example the Tigers were obviously better than HJ the last two years yet we didn't play our best 2 out of the six games we played them. So we only won 4 out of those 6. :) :) ;)

Madison must have been exhuasted from having to fight fort their life thursday. ;)

I guess so stats show Madison killing them on the boards but has 5 more turnovers.

What is up is Estacado playing that well or is Madison having an off day?  At work not able to see it.

[quote name="dogs1218" post="776491" timestamp="1268466194"] [quote author=ST413 link=topic=67270.msg776482#msg776482 date=1268460671] Well said Bullets.  One more thing on my mind here.  It was said somewhere in this discussion don't remember which thread or when that Yates was pouring it on for the national "title".  I am one of the limited number of us southast texans who have driven to houston and watched Yates play. Yes it was only one game.  What I saw was a team with some very good players who are great at what they do.  However they looked vulnerable in a half court game.  If they want this so called title, I feel they would need to be a team who excels in th complete game not just one facet of it.  I have no problems with the players at all.  What I have seen from them has not been negative in any way.  To make themselves a truly great basketball team,  I just feel they needed to be a more complete team,  meaning in al facets of the game.  They had plenty of chances to work on it. Why didn't they?  They may well have the team that could have won state playing that style as well but it would not have been as easy for them.  I do have to admit I am no Coach Wise fan.  After seeing him continue his press with huge leads and hearing his interviews,  I have the feeling like many others:  He is all about Me.  Yes he gives his players credit but I have yet to hear him give his opposition any.  Maybe he has and I haven't seen it but not to my knowledge.  So back to my question "Why hasn't Yates taken the opportunity to work on their half court game?"  Maybe it is truly that Wise wants his team to know never to let up,  but maybe it is also that he knows this is where he is vulnerable(not his team but himself as a coach).  Maybe he is scared that it will be shown that his weakness is setting up an offense or defense in the half court and making the adjustments necessary to excel in the half court game.  If so,  he has failed himself this year as he had the perfect opportunity to work on his weakness. [/quote] [b][b]Didn't Yates lose the last time they pulled the press? Why stop doing what you are good at? Why play the opposite style of what this group has practiced for years now?[/b][/b] What Yates does as team makes sense to them. As for Wise, he is out to to make a name for himself and his team. Records, tropheys, and national buzz is what this team and this coach is out to get. Face it. Right or wrong by anyone's opinion. People to need to let it go about Yates. Just have fun watching a great team play basketball at a high level. Isn't that what the game is about? Playing hard to achieve excellence? [/quote] Thank you!!  You just made my point.  When you have a 88 point lead at half practice what you aren't good at.  Make yourself even better.

Well said Bullets.  One more thing on my mind here.  It was said somewhere in this discussion don't remember which thread or when that Yates was pouring it on for the national "title".  I am one of the limited number of us southast texans who have driven to houston and watched Yates play. Yes it was only one game.  What I saw was a team with some very good players who are great at what they do.  However they looked vulnerable in a half court game.  If they want this so called title, I feel they would need to be a team who excels in th complete game not just one facet of it.  I have no problems with the players at all.  What I have seen from them has not been negative in any way.  To make themselves a truly great basketball team,  I just feel they needed to be a more complete team,  meaning in al facets of the game.  They had plenty of chances to work on it. Why didn't they?  They may well have the team that could have won state playing that style as well but it would not have been as easy for them.  I do have to admit I am no Coach Wise fan.  After seeing him continue his press with huge leads and hearing his interviews,  I have the feeling like many others:  He is all about Me.  Yes he gives his players credit but I have yet to hear him give his opposition any.  Maybe he has and I haven't seen it but not to my knowledge.  So back to my question "Why hasn't Yates taken the opportunity to work on their half court game?"  Maybe it is truly that Wise wants his team to know never to let up,  but maybe it is also that he knows this is where he is vulnerable(not his team but himself as a coach).  Maybe he is scared that it will be shown that his weakness is setting up an offense or defense in the half court and making the adjustments necessary to excel in the half court game.  If so,  he has failed himself this year as he had the perfect opportunity to work on his weakness.

What great fans and what a great atmosphere.  I was at the game between the two teams in Spurger and those fans love their team.  I wish I could have been in Austin, I havn't missed many games the last two years.  Unfortunately I had to work.  Thanks for the support Spurger. I wish the results could have been different for our teams,  unfortunately we ran into the two best teams in out divisions a game too soon.  Way to go Tigers and Pirates.

For the same reason no one has said instead of inbounding the ball after a score that Yates should hand it to their opponents.

Don't know what you have been smokin' Lancaster beat Travis by 8 in OT!

No body said Yates should stop playing. It was stated that they only ran the ball in the second half. They didn't pass which is somewhat comparable to Yates stopping the press.

I believe they lost in regional finals to Wheatley