Derek Jeter question

[bobcatfan]

  Derek Jeter is the one the most talked about and most famous players in major league.  Whether you like it or not, Derek Jeter has been the most marketed guy in sports and the face of baseball for the last 5-10 years.  Many experts say Jeter is on the way to a sure fire hall of fame career, while many fans say he is overrated.  He certainly has the awards in his favor: AL rookie of the year, 1 silver slugger award, 3 AL gold gloves, 4 world series rings, and 1 world series MVP.  At age 33, he has already 2269 hits, 5 200 hit seasons, a career .317 hitter.  But, for all those who like to sing his praises, there are several critics (like myself) who say he gets too much credit and is overrated.  For a guy whos supposed to be one of the best in the whole league, he has only posted 3 20+ home run seasons and never hit over 25 home runs in his 11 year career.  So with the lack of power you would think he has swiped a lot of bases in his career (like the gatorade commercial suggests), but he has only stole more than 30 bases 3 times in his career.  He averages over 100 K's a year, striking out over 100 times 7 times in his career, and 99 times twice.  And while he has recently added 3 gold gloves to his resume, it is widely known that the gold glove is more of a popularity contest than anything. In fact there is evidence that suggest Jeter is a below average fielder (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-fielding-bible/) and was undeserving of his gold gloves.

  So, with all that being said, i was trying to think of a test to figure out if Derek Jeter is really "overrated". Well, first you have to figure out what a player is valued to determine whether he is in fact overrated.  To me, if a guy has major endorsement deals, and is seen on many commercials, and is the most marketed guy in baseball, i think that player should be one of THE best players in the league.  So how then would we determine the best players in the league?  The best way i could come up with is kind of a similar question i asked in the NFL forum, which was this: If every major league player was put in one big pool of players and the league was redrafted, how far would you get till Derek Jeter was drafted?  Now in fairness, i'll exclude pitchers, just because they have more perceived value and would go before many position players.  One thing that will be hard to quantify though is one position player over another.  For instance, you cant say because a first basemen has more HRs, RBIs that he should automatically be picked over Jeter because Jeter is a shortstop and first basemen are expected to perform better offensively than shortstops.  Thats just something to keep in mind when doing this list.  So lets let you play GM, if you could build a team for THIS YEAR only(only this year, dont consider the future), how many players would you pick before Derek Jeter?  I'll put down a list of possible candidates for you to look at, feel free to add someone if you think of one to your list.

Let me say in closing that if you can come up with 10+ players you'd start your team with over Derek Jeter, he has to be at least slightly overrated, because he should be a top 10 player based on his popularity.

Alex Rodriguez

David Ortiz

Manny Ramirez

Vernon Wells

Alex Rios

Brian Roberts

Carl Crawford

Gary Sheffield

Magglio Ordonez

Ivan Rodridguez

Grady Sizemore

Victor Martinez

Travis Hafner

Joe Mauer

Justin Morneau

Torii Hunter

Paul Konerko

Vlad Guerrero

Chone Figgins

Orlando Cabrera

Ichiro Suzuki

Eric Chavez

Michael Young

Mark Texeira

Jose Reyes

David Wright

Carlos Beltran

Andruw Jones

Chipper Jones

Edgar Renteria

Brian McCann

Ryan Howard

Jimmy Rollins

Chase Utley

Miguel Cabrera

Hanley Ramirez

Ryan Zimmerman

Prince Fielder

JJ Hardy

Alfonso Soriano

Derrek Lee

Aramis Ramirez

Albert Pujols

Jason Bay

Lance Berkman

Carlos Lee

Ken Griffey Jr

Adam Dunn

Russell Martin

Rafael Furcal

Eric Byrnes

Matt Holliday

Todd Helton

Barry Bonds

I put this in my new blog, its a sports blog, go check it out, post comments

http://bradssportsblog.blogspot.com/

[bobcatfan]

A couple days has gone by and i cant believe i didnt get any responses to this post, i figured it would be a hot topic in this forum.  Maybe the post was too long to read. I'll give you the general question i was asking from it.  If all the MLB players were all put back in the draft today and you could draft a team of current mlb players (EXCLUDING PITCHERS just for this discussion) for just this year only, how many players would you draft before you would want to draft Derek Jeter?  I think its an interesting topic because of Jeters immense popularity and perceived talent, i'll be curious to see yalls answers.  I said if you can name 10 or more players before Jeter you would have to say he's at least slightly overrated.  Anyways, in the post before i listed all the good players i could think of so look over the list and give me your list of players you'd draft before Derek Jeter.

[specialed007]

Alright, whatever. It's Derek Jeter. He's not worth our time unless he gets traded to the Astros(that will not happen, hell will freeze over first.)Anyways, Jeter puts up good stats for a typically good team in a major media market so he gets publicity. That's how it works right now in this world. I don't personally like the guy nor would I like to ever meet him unless he happens to be at the same place as me.(Even more unlikely than him getting traded to the Astros). Anyways, the real question should be A-Rod and when he is coming back to Texas(Astros, hopefully and for like half of his current salary).(Probably more unlikely than the other two things previously mentioned.) Anyways, there it is, my first post on this site. Maybe there will be many more to come?

[Gabe]

He would be high on my list to build around because of his intangibles and his leadership alone. The guy is a baseball player and does a lot of things the right way to help his team win. Besides Ortiz, Jeter may be the most clutch player in the game today. Like him or not, Jeter is one of the best baseball players in the game and fans of the game should respect what he does on the field.

[Roll_Left15]

To be hones with you...I can't name 10 or more players that I would take over Jeter.  I don't like the Yankees but I'm a Jeter fan, what he does for his team cannot be matched by any player in the Majors.  I thought the play where he caught the ball and went into the first two rows was a bit overrated, but the play he made against Oakland to get Giambi at home was probably the most heads-up play that I've ever seen! Anyway here are the players that I'd take over Jeter, knowing what I know now:

Alex Rodriguez

Vlad Guerrero

Ichiro Suzuki

Jr.

Barry Bonds

I was thinking about taking Jose Reyes, just because he is so fun to watch....but I don't think he's at Jeters level yet.......

[bears99]

Roll left, how could you take Bonds and Griffey over Jeter. They may be having good years so far this year , but they are way too old and injury prone to be in this discussion. Its about who you would start a team with now. In years past, it woud no doubt be the two guys to choose but that time has past.   

[Roll_Left15]

Well I guess I ddn't understand the question then...I thought it was who you would pick when the were starting out.  Thats why I said, knowing what I know now...

[bobcatfan]

Roll left, i think you understood the question right, bears 99 is just saying taking griffey and bonds at this stage in their career when they are injury prone and lucky to play 140 games is a risky versus taking a more durable Jeter.  OLGabe, you were pretty vague in your post.  I asked specifically to make your list, so you put him high, but how high though?  Make your list so we can discuss who you put in, left off, etc.  I guess since i formed the question, i should answer it also.  I said in the beginning this was a hard question to answer.  Mainly because all these guys play different positions and some are valued higher than others.  I think everyone would agree the highest premium positions are catcher, shortstop, and center field, so guys who can put up numbers in those positions are valued higher.  But how do you value a first basemen who hits 35-40 homers for a high average against a shortstop who normally hits half as many homers for high average.  Its a tough question to answer.  So instead of being definite, which i think it is hard to do, i'll put these guys in different categories for you. 

Guys i would definitely take over Jeter:

Albert Pujols

Alex Rodriguez

Vlad Guerrerro

Guys i would take over Jeter, and could make a great argument for them:

Alfonso Soriano

Manny Ramirez

Miguel Cabrera

Jose Reyes

Joe Mauer

Brian McCann

Victor Martinez

Jimmy Rollins

Chase Utley

Hanley Ramirez

Justin Morneau

Ryan Howard

Grady Sizemore

Carlos Beltran

Torii Hunter

Lance Berkman

David Ortiz

Andruw Jones

Ichiro Suzuki

Carl Crawford

Guys i could make a decent or good argument for and could possibly take over Jeter, but i'm not so sure i can take them over Jeter:

Ivan Rodriguez

Travis Hafner

Russell Martin

Barry Bonds

Derrek Lee

Aramis Ramirez

Matt Holliday

David Wright

Gary Sheffield

Vernon Wells

I put this in my new blog, its a sports blog, go check it out, post comments

http://bradssportsblog.blogspot.com/

[specialed007]

Beenikes, I think you are an utter genius and I support your decision wholeheartedly to criticize Jeter as a player and a human being. I think Jeter has been blessed with the right team and situation(Winning World Series titles in 3 of 4 years early in his career) and he was embraced as a leader with good stats in those seasons along with Bernie Williams. I think that he maximized his media exposure by being in New York and he has a ton of talent. But I think that Jeter is over-hyped as being anything close to Vlad, Pujols, or A-Rod. Jeter is a good player, a top 5 short stop in most people's eyes(I like Reyes, A-Rod, Hanley Ramirez, and Jimmy Rollins more at shortstop).Jeter is overrated for sure but a good player he is also.

[Gabe]

Arod

Pujols

Vlad

Soriano

Thats all I can for sure put ahead of Jeter. Cant take Ramirez because hes not as all around as Jeter. Ortiz doesnt play the field. The reason I cant take the others for sure is because they have not won and had Jeter's success just yet. Jeter is the product of a great team, that is true, but part of the reason the Yankees were so great is because of Jeter. From clutch plays to clutch hits, he puts his team in a position to win when it matters the most.