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LBJ vs Lindale Complaint was filed to UIL


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14 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Just to be clear Austin ISD doesn't have to let it happen as, the aggrieved party in this instance would be the students and thus it could be rolled out in any of their names. I have no info on if Austin ISD allowed or agreed to the lawsuit tho. It doesn't necessitate that they agreed to it for the NAACP to bring a case. 

Being that the coach is an employee of Austin ISD you would think the district would be in the loop as to what was about to take place.   Coach is quoted in the article.  He does represent the district.  

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4 minutes ago, oldman said:

Being that the coach is an employee of Austin ISD you would think the district would be in the loop as to what was about to take place.   Coach is quoted in the article.  He does represent the district.  

Is Austin ISD aware of comments? I'm sure they are. Is the coach a party to a potential lawsuit? Not yet. 

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Just now, Cougtalk said:

Is Austin ISD aware of comments? I'm sure they are. Is the coach a party to a potential lawsuit? Not yet. 

Any potential lawsuit has no merit. Do you know how many basketball games I've seen with 40 foul calls, 30 of those against one team? I don't know either, but its quite a few. I can tell you how many lawsuits resulted out of those games, zero. Before anyone gets smart, yes I know we're talking about a football game on this thread, but its the same premise. 

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1 minute ago, gogo1734 said:

Any potential lawsuit has no merit. Do you know how many basketball games I've seen with 40 foul calls, 30 of those against one team? I don't know either, but its quite a few. I can tell you how many lawsuits resulted out of those games, zero. Before anyone gets smart, yes I know we're talking about a football game on this thread, but its the same premise. 

Rumor is someone has videos of a payoff. I have friends at Lindale and in Austin ISD. Getting the talk on both sides. I don't pretend to understand legal merit, I'm not a lawyer and I don't think you are either. The argument from the Austin side is the game was relatively evenly called in first half, then a mass change happened, if a video of a payoff exist then TASO might be dealing with a pretty interesting lawsuit. Lots of Ifs, ands and buts. I don't have the answers just giving you info I'm getting from up there. 

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1 hour ago, 2wedge said:

Do we really believe there are officials, who are working games for pennies, for the sole intent of ensuring one race of kids wins over another race of kids? And even if those guys are out there (which, for clarity, I do not believe they are), do we really believe they would be throwing racial slurs around exposing their nefarious intent during games? Come on man. 

I’m just saying that’s what I gathered from the article.  Just my opinion.  I hope it’s not the case but you never know...

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56 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Rumor is someone has videos of a payoff. I have friends at Lindale and in Austin ISD. Getting the talk on both sides. I don't pretend to understand legal merit, I'm not a lawyer and I don't think you are either. The argument from the Austin side is the game was relatively evenly called in first half, then a mass change happened, if a video of a payoff exist then TASO might be dealing with a pretty interesting lawsuit. Lots of Ifs, ands and buts. I don't have the answers just giving you info I'm getting from up there. 

All I'm saying is I have never heard of any lawsuit regarding officiating in any game. Also, your statement about a payoff has absolutely ZERO to do with the complaints from Austin LBJ and the NAACP. Their complaints are based on alleged racial bias by the officials.

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1 hour ago, Cougtalk said:

Rumor is someone has videos of a payoff. I have friends at Lindale and in Austin ISD. Getting the talk on both sides. I don't pretend to understand legal merit, I'm not a lawyer and I don't think you are either. The argument from the Austin side is the game was relatively evenly called in first half, then a mass change happened, if a video of a payoff exist then TASO might be dealing with a pretty interesting lawsuit. Lots of Ifs, ands and buts. I don't have the answers just giving you info I'm getting from up there. 

So the basis is now bribery, not racism? This is getting ridiculous.

Even taking the wild rumor of a bribe as true, there would be no interesting lawsuit against TASO.  Vicarious liability, which is defined as an entity being liable for the acts of its agent, does not apply in cases of intentional act of the agent unless the entity required that action or it was reasonably foreseeable.  Taking a bribe, which is apparently the new allegation, is an intentional act.

The referee himself, if this ridiculous allegation is true, could be liable, but you would not reach the deep pockets of TASO.

And the NAACP can threaten all of the legal action it wants, it is just blowing smoke.  It has no standing to bring a suit in this case.  It can provide attorney's for the "injured" parties, it can be the driving force, but it can't be the filing party to this suit as it has no standing to do so.

I also find it telling that despite all of this, there is no report of either LBJ High School or Austin ISD making any contact with the UIL about this.

The only one I see being close to having legal action are the members of the officiating crew who have now had allegations of racism (despite the fact that at least one of the members of that "racist crew" was African American) and now bribery thrown at them, with what is out there right now, not much basis for it.  It doesn't reach it yet, but this is becoming dangerously close to turning into a defamation lawsuit.

Ultimately, the only effect that will come out of this is a chilling effect on anyone who wants to enter into officiating.  On top of verbal abuse and social media complaints, we have now seen officials become the victims of battery and now subject to civil and/or criminal allegations because someone did not like their calls.

Yeah, that makes me want to get out there for 50 bucks a game.

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I just watched the game. The umpire, back judge and side judge are all black. The coach that went for 4th down twice inside the 35 had more to do with the loss than any ref. Lindale lost a td on inadvertent whistle. 6 illegal procedure penalties is lack of discipline not racism. Late hit out of bounds and targeting were both legit calls. This is just the losing team crying for mistakes they made. 3 fumbled snaps in second half, punt return muffs it in ez and lindale recovers, 3rd down rbs run into each other, etc.

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2 hours ago, LC-M said:

Here you go 

This is the hidden content, please

Thank you.  No idea why it didn’t come up.  My daughter said I don’t know how to phrase the questions right, so I tried twice (not enough).   I guess so.  Only person in the US that can’t get Google to answer my questions.   😄

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Quote

Even taking the wild rumor of a bribe as true, there would be no interesting lawsuit against TASO.  Vicarious liability, which is defined as an entity being liable for the acts of its agent, does not apply in cases of intentional act of the agent unless the entity required that action or it was reasonably foreseeable.  Taking a bribe, which is apparently the new allegation, is an intentional act.

Unless reports of impropriety went unheard, or the institution had reason to believe the impropriety would take place. I don't think the claim would be filled as vicarious liability against TASO. I think the claims might be based on institutional negligence or other types of oversight considerations and responsibilities. 

Also, TASO also provide legal services to their officials unless that's changed so even if true TASO lawyers would be defending the refs. 

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And the NAACP can threaten all of the legal action it wants, it is just blowing smoke.  It has no standing to bring a suit in this case.  It can provide attorney's for the "injured" parties, it can be the driving force, but it can't be the filing party to this suit as it has no standing to do so.

The article states they are speaking on behalf of 60 reports to them. Also, you just described every NAACP lawsuit ever. They provide the lawyers and resources, that's literally what the organization does. Individuals could claim harm and that literally takes one parent. 

 

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The only one I see being close to having legal action are the members of the officiating crew who have now had allegations of racism (despite the fact that at least one of the members of that "racist crew" was African American) and now bribery thrown at them, with what is out there right now, not much basis for it.  It doesn't reach it yet, but this is becoming dangerously close to turning into a defamation lawsuit.

Libel claims rarely go anywhere, especially when members of the crews names have not been put in papers (note that's why they haven't been.) Also, two members of the crew where black. I also don't see anywhere in the printed text that claims the crew was racist, and innuendo is not something than wins court cases. 

You cannot claim defamation towards things someone didn't say. Note both the NAACP and the newspaper shielded themselves from anyone of those Libel claims. If I write WOS cheated one time at cards in the paper, and people say WOS is a cheater. You can only sue me for saying WOS cheated one time at cards, not other extraneous claims of your cheating that I never said. 

I can be held accountable for the damage if what I said originally was untrue, but not for what other tack on actors say. You'd have to sue each of them individually. 

 

 

Hints why I said if a case comes it would have to be an interesting one. 

 

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4 minutes ago, AHUDDLESTON said:

I just watched the game. The umpire, back judge and side judge are all black. The coach that went for 4th down twice inside the 35 had more to do with the loss than any ref. Lindale lost a td on inadvertent whistle. 6 illegal procedure penalties is lack of discipline not racism. Late hit out of bounds and targeting were both legit calls. This is just the losing team crying for mistakes they made. 3 fumbled snaps in second half, punt return muffs it in ez and lindale recovers, 3rd down rbs run into each other, etc.

Where did you watch it?

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19 minutes ago, gogo1734 said:

All I'm saying is I have never heard of any lawsuit regarding officiating in any game. Also, your statement about a payoff has absolutely ZERO to do with the complaints from Austin LBJ and the NAACP. Their complaints are based on alleged racial bias by the officials.

Not my claim tbf, apparently it was part of the filing with UIL. (as I heard this from a Lindale friend not an AUSTIN ISD friend.) 

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38 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

Unless reports of impropriety went unheard, or the institution had reason to believe the impropriety would take place. I don't think the claim would be filled as vicarious liability against TASO. I think the claims might be based on institutional negligence or other types of oversight considerations and responsibilities. 

Also, TASO also provide legal services to their officials unless that's changed so even if true TASO lawyers would be defending the refs. 

The article states they are speaking on behalf of 60 reports to them. Also, you just described every NAACP lawsuit ever. They provide the lawyers and resources, that's literally what the organization does. Individuals could claim harm and that literally takes one parent. 

 

Libel claims rarely go anywhere, especially when members of the crews names have not been put in papers (note that's why they haven't been.) Also, two members of the crew where black. I also don't see anywhere in the printed text that claims the crew was racist, and innuendo is not something than wins court cases. 

You cannot claim defamation towards things someone didn't say. Note both the NAACP and the newspaper shielded themselves from anyone of those Libel claims. If I write WOS cheated one time at cards in the paper, and people say WOS is a cheater. You can only sue me for saying WOS cheated one time at cards, not other extraneous claims of your cheating that I never said. 

I can be held accountable for the damage if what I said originally was untrue, but not for what other tack on actors say. You'd have to sue each of them individually. 

 

 

Hints why I said if a case comes it would have to be an interesting one. 

 

Wow! You didn't take the same law school classes that I did. Your allegation of vicarious liability is like saying that your employer is liable for you killing someone while driving drunk because it could possibly happen.  That is not reasonable forseeability and is not "'institutional negligence."  As with the NAACP, any of TASO's lawyers would represent the client, not the organization.  Any inkling that they did otherwise would put a lawyer's license in jeopardy.

As to your defense of a libel claim, the Washington Post and CNN thought like you did.  Now Nicholas Sandman is now a very rich young man.

You target a specific group who names are easily accessible, then you have identified under the law.

Second, an organization or new organization does, under the law have a duty to investigate allegations made before publishing.  If they did not, yes, they are liable.

And as for the NAACP, that horse escaped the barn with this little statement:

"It was definitely a racial issue. I got some calls about racial slurs, people being ugly, nasty, no doubt about it," said Linder. 

"I don't like being a sportscaster. I'm not good at that, but I do understand what's right, what's wrong, what's fair, what's unfair. This to me is very, very clear. This was ugly. It should never have occurred in any sport for these young people. These kids, their spirits have been broken," he added.

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As to your defense of a libel claim, the Washington Post and CNN thought like you did.  Now Nicholas Sandman is now a very rich young man.

So you mean CNN and Washington Post lawyers agreed with me and then settled court cases that were substantially smaller than originally claimed scopes of the public cases? And you and I have no clue what those second filings actually argued, because they aren't public? Good investigation there buds. 

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Your allegation of vicarious liability is like saying that your employer is liable for you killing someone while driving drunk because it could possibly happen.  That is not reasonable forseeability and is not "'institutional negligence."  As with the NAACP, any of TASO's lawyers would represent the client, not the organization.  Any inkling that they did otherwise would put a lawyer's license in jeopardy.

You're pre-adjudicating claims, it is very reasonable that's what a court would end up saying but that would likely be after arguments.  It also would depend upon the original claims made, and how they were written. If as you claim you've taken law classes, then you know that nothing is this cut and dry, especially given they can have more than one case going at a time. 

You've made the claim that the case would have no merit... I disagree I think it would have merit but it would likely end in favor of TASO and their refs. 

I made the claim that they wouldn't go for vicarious liability which you ignored... congrats. Institutional oversight and other claims aren't about liability for action but are separate cases that can be brought against TASO. Also, TASO being a organizational oversight body likely has other requirements within its contract with UIL. They could argue that lack of oversight would breach that contract. TASO not risking it's relationship with the UIL could be forced to settle which is all these suits want in the first place. 

All of these things are possible and would have to be adjudicated in court, they will not be willed away by very many judges and even if TASO/Judges end up winning the cases they are going to have a hard time proving damages, which again is something that would be adjudicated and we shouldn't prescribe our view to what a judge might rule, as we don't have a filing to even see what the claims are. 

 

 

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And as for the NAACP, that horse escaped the barn with this little statement:

"It was definitely a racial issue. I got some calls about racial slurs, people being ugly, nasty, no doubt about it," said Linder. 

"I don't like being a sportscaster. I'm not good at that, but I do understand what's right, what's wrong, what's fair, what's unfair. This to me is very, very clear. This was ugly. It should never have occurred in any sport for these young people. These kids, their spirits have been broken," he added.

Both those claims can easily be described as towards the entire situation and claims not individuals. that what the NAACP will argue in court in libel claims are brought. Also, note no organization has more claims of libel brought against them than the NAACP year over year. It's safe to say they don't fear that case. 

 

Not a lawyer but have taken a few classes, and one of the first things you learn is don't pre-adjudicate cases. 

 

Have a good one WOS. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cougtalk said:

 

So you mean CNN and Washington Post lawyers agreed with me and then settled court cases that were substantially smaller than originally claimed scopes of the public cases? And you and I have no clue what those second filings actually argued, because they aren't public? Good investigation there buds. 

You're pre-adjudicating claims, it is very reasonable that's what a court would end up saying but that would likely be after arguments.  It also would depend upon the original claims made, and how they were written. If as you claim you've taken law classes, then you know that nothing is this cut and dry, especially given they can have more than one case going at a time. 

You've made the claim that the case would have no merit... I disagree I think it would have merit but it would likely end in favor of TASO and their refs. 

I made the claim that they wouldn't go for vicarious liability which you ignored... congrats. Institutional oversight and other claims aren't about liability for action but are separate cases that can be brought against TASO. Also, TASO being a organizational oversight body likely has other requirements within its contract with UIL. They could argue that lack of oversight would breach that contract. TASO not risking it's relationship with the UIL could be forced to settle which is all these suits want in the first place. 

All of these things are possible and would have to be adjudicated in court, they will not be willed away by very many judges and even if TASO/Judges end up winning the cases they are going to have a hard time proving damages, which again is something that would be adjudicated and we shouldn't prescribe our view to what a judge might rule, as we don't have a filing to even see what the claims are. 

 

 

Both those claims can easily be described as towards the entire situation and claims not individuals. that what the NAACP will argue in court in libel claims are brought. Also, note no organization has more claims of libel brought against them than the NAACP year over year. It's safe to say they don't fear that case. 

 

Not a lawyer but have taken a few classes, and one of the first things you learn is don't pre-adjudicate cases. 

 

Have a good one WOS. 

 

 

Well, I'll tell you what.  Write the petition for me right here, what is the claim of "institutional negligence" or "lack of oversight" you would forward here?  And since you brought it up, what damages are you going to allege?

And things are pre-adjudicated all of the time in our court system, it is called a summary judgment.  There is also an action available to a defendant through the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 91 (a) for frivolous lawsuits.  And they are preadjudicated all the time in law offices throughout the nation. 

Have a nice day, Coog.

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3 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

Well, I'll tell you what.  Write the petition for me right here, what is the claim of "institutional negligence" or "lack of oversight" you would forward here?  And since you brought it up, what damages are you going to allege?

And things are pre-adjudicated all of the time in our court system, it is called a summary judgment.  There is also an action available to a defendant through the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 91 (a) for frivolous lawsuits.  And they are preadjudicated all the time in law offices throughout the nation. 

Have a nice day, Coog.

I don't believe very many judges would provide summary judgement on these cases but again we won't know until there is a filing. (if anyone ends up filing.) Also, which courts they get filed in would also matter. I'm not writing a petition for you but you can go ahead and write that summary judgement for that case you don't have a filing for, I'm waiting. 

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3 hours ago, Cougtalk said:

Rumor is someone has videos of a payoff. I have friends at Lindale and in Austin ISD. Getting the talk on both sides. I don't pretend to understand legal merit, I'm not a lawyer and I don't think you are either. The argument from the Austin side is the game was relatively evenly called in first half, then a mass change happened, if a video of a payoff exist then TASO might be dealing with a pretty interesting lawsuit. Lots of Ifs, ands and buts. I don't have the answers just giving you info I'm getting from up there. 

The head ref was giving his audio pack to a guy in a maroon hoodie if that’s what your talking about. I’m assuming that guy was in charge of the field and probably didn’t care who won the game lol. That’s a silly allegation they are trying to make that he got paid off. I’m sure if a ref does get paid off it’s behind close doors. 

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