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3 minutes ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

I do also, thats why I am able to say that the ones who do make gyms available are greatly outnumbered by the ones who dont especially for girls in our area. Or they say its gonna be open gym but lets be honest.....it is primarily for the boys.  Then the girls have to "get in where they fit in" which in that case some will but most wont. 

Most schools have more than one gym for boys and girls though...

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42 minutes ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

Little dribblers can also be a very instrumental tool for the development of kids.  It just depends on the people who are leading the way.  Now finding people who are knowledgeable in basketball fundamentals and are able to teach them is an entirely different subject lol.  I cant speak on every small school in the area but I know for a fact that for schools like HJ little dribblers was VERY beneficial.  Fundamentals were emphasized and taught to those girls at an early age (form shooting, man to man defense with no hands, passing etc) and those things are paying off for them.  Now I do agree that little dribblers can also be the reason for lack of knowledge and bad habits for a lot of girl players but I put that on the people who are involved with their development.

Everyone is making great points and I am extremely happy that we are even discussing girls basketball, because in our area the culture for girls basketball isnt very strong or is vastly under valued. 

I'm pretty certain that the cons far outweigh the pros in terms of little dribblers.  To be clear, I'm not advocating for ZERO youth basketball experience.  I definitely think that even bad experience can be better than no experience especially in terms of learning some concept of the game.  However, if a kid is relying on little dribbler ONLY for their skills training then they're going to be in a bind in the long run.  I'll guarantee you that there aren't many youth basketball programs that do it the way it should be done.  I personally think that all youth basketball coaches should attend at least one sort of seminar with the school's varsity head coach for ideas, useful drills, and maybe some preferred concepts to focus on every practice.  Maybe even some practice planning itself.  I'm fairly certain that no towns are doing that.  If so, please enlighten me.

I noticed you mentioned HJ.  I would never take anything away from their accomplishments or the volunteers coaching their youth sports.. but.. they have a player on their team with multiple big time D1 offers and another player on their team that had a father who was a varsity head coach for several years.  Is the youth program responsible for ALL of the success they're seeing?  Or do they maybe have some players that spend a huge amount of time working on the game outside of the season?

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Great observations on here with Coach Shu and many more.  Here as the WOS girls coach here is what I have observed.  Repetitions are key to any success in sports.  Since being assigned as the head coach here I make sure my gym stays open for my girls.  Unlike other programs we don't have a little dribblers program here yet and a lot of my girls can't afford AAU.  However, we utilized the UIL's new rule for skills training this past summer focusing on fundamentals and I have seen it pay off.  

We're still behind on skill set but we make up some of this with our athleticism.  Girls are not like boys and besides the obvious here is what I mean.  A boy will watch basketball on tv or play the video game of 2K and then head outside trying the moves he just saw.  Girls rarely will even watch basketball on tv and if they do they rarely go outside to practice what they saw.  Now I know they're anomalies to this and few girls will do it. 

The key to growing basketball in our small areas is through little dribblers but we have to still think outside the box.  It does us no good to run a little dribblers program where we have 2 teams that play each other every week or mix teams with boys/girls.  What we need to do is run little dribblers like we do pee-wee football.  For example West Orange Stark Little Dribblers plays Bridge City this week at all ages and one of the programs host the event.  Next week WOS may travel to LCM area and play their Little Dribblers program at LCM.  What this will do is a few things.  Number 1 make it where you build competition and make the community start paying attention on Saturday.  A lot of people would pay to go see these type of games on Saturdays which will fund the program.  

It will also make parents aware of the competition that is out there and the work that needs to be done.  If this is done properly then a pipeline will be heading to the junior high.  My girls played Little Dribblers for years either on mixed teams (boys and girls) or playing against one all girls team where a parent stacked one team against the other team.  The mixed teams saw the girls getting  pushed to the side not  getting the development they need and the stacked team stroked a parents ego that really couldn't coach but because they had the stacked team looked like coach of the year.  In the end my girls left the sport for softball or volleyball which broke my heart being a basketball guy.  They saw it was a waste of time and enjoyed the organization of softball/volleyball more because it was more competitive.    

In order for us to grow girls basketball for the whole area we have to change the process at the grass roots level.  If this is done then we will see more girls going off to play college ball from all the schools and not just a few handful.  We will also see shooting, ball handling and other skills grow.  Last statement, Martins Mills has basketball figured out.  I went there this past summer visiting a buddy who's daughter is a stud on the high school team and saw their process.  The Little Dribblers is ran like I mentioned above and ever kid has a pass-code to the gym and can go shoot anytime of day.  Kids put their code in flip on the lights and get to work.  Now I know we don't all live in a town like Martins Mill but my point is their facilities are accessible for kids to get shots up.    

My two cents.

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11 minutes ago, Coach D.J. Wilson said:

 

  Girls are not like boys and besides the obvious here is what I mean.  A boy will watch basketball on tv or play the video game of 2K and then head outside trying the moves he just saw.  Girls rarely will even watch basketball on tv and if they do they rarely go outside to practice what they saw.  Now I know they're anomalies to this and few girls will do it. 

 

This is sooooo true.   Something I have been trying to get our girls to do more of is watch the game!  

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7 minutes ago, Coach D.J. Wilson said:

Great observations on here with Coach Shu and many more.  Here as the WOS girls coach here is what I have observed.  Repetitions are key to any success in sports.  Since being assigned as the head coach here I make sure my gym stays open for my girls.  Unlike other programs we don't have a little dribblers program here yet and a lot of my girls can't afford AAU.  However, we utilized the UIL's new rule for skills training this past summer focusing on fundamentals and I have seen it pay off.  

We're still behind on skill set but we make up some of this with our athleticism.  Girls are not like boys and besides the obvious here is what I mean.  A boy will watch basketball on tv or play the video game of 2K and then head outside trying the moves he just saw.  Girls rarely will even watch basketball on tv and if they do they rarely go outside to practice what they saw.  Now I know they're anomalies to this and few girls will do it. 

The key to growing basketball in our small areas is through little dribblers but we have to still think outside the box.  It does us no good to run a little dribblers program where we have 2 teams that play each other every week or mix teams with boys/girls.  What we need to do is run little dribblers like we do pee-wee football.  For example West Orange Stark Little Dribblers plays Bridge City this week at all ages and one of the programs host the event.  Next week WOS may travel to LCM area and play their Little Dribblers program at LCM.  What this will do is a few things.  Number 1 make it where you build competition and make the community start paying attention on Saturday.  A lot of people would pay to go see these type of games on Saturdays which will fund the program.  

It will also make parents aware of the competition that is out there and the work that needs to be done.  If this is done properly then a pipeline will be heading to the junior high.  My girls played Little Dribblers for years either on mixed teams (boys and girls) or playing against one all girls team where a parent stacked one team against the other team.  The mixed teams saw the girls getting  pushed to the side not  getting the development they need and the stacked team stroked a parents ego that really couldn't coach but because they had the stacked team looked like coach of the year.  In the end my girls left the sport for softball or volleyball which broke my heart being a basketball guy.  They saw it was a waste of time and enjoyed the organization of softball/volleyball more because it was more competitive.    

In order for us to grow girls basketball for the whole area we have to change the process at the grass roots level.  If this is done then we will see more girls going off to play college ball from all the schools and not just a few handful.  We will also see shooting, ball handling and other skills grow.  Last statement, Martins Mills has basketball figured out.  I went there this past summer visiting a buddy who's daughter is a stud on the high school team and saw their process.  The Little Dribblers is ran like I mentioned above and ever kid has a pass-code to the gym and can go shoot anytime of day.  Kids put their code in flip on the lights and get to work.  Now I know we don't all live in a town like Martins Mill but my point is their facilities are accessible for kids to get shots up.    

My two cents.

Martin's Mill?! No offense, Coach, but making a comparison to them isn't even applicable.  You're talking about a school that A) doesn't have volleyball and B ) has kids with very supportive home situations.  Ex: They play all year.. camps, AAU, privates, etc.  Having a youth program "like their's" isn't going to happen.  You make some fantastic points though and you're 100% correct about the need to get them playing earlier somehow (with other girls only). I'm not the expert on the subject but I can promise that even if they're taught everything needed it has to be worked rigorously all year long.  That was my original point and what I'm sticking by. It takes purposeful practice and often. 

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5 minutes ago, Coach.Shu said:

He states the point he was making was that their gym was accessible to their athletes, not that they have the model for us to copy.

 

I think this has turned into a great discussion on how to improve setx girls basketball in general.   

10-4.  And btw.. I can think of very few situations where girls can't access the gym during the summer.  I know that a lot of schools have volleyball nets up but that doesn't effect shooting or ball handling work.  They probably won't have access like being described at MM but it's there. 

And yeah.. I personally get tired of looking on this forum and can't even see scores posted.  Not that I have a vested interest but I usually like to keep up with all sports to an extent. 

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52 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

I'm pretty certain that the cons far outweigh the pros in terms of little dribblers.  To be clear, I'm not advocating for ZERO youth basketball experience.  I definitely think that even bad experience can be better than no experience especially in terms of learning some concept of the game.  However, if a kid is relying on little dribbler ONLY for their skills training then they're going to be in a bind in the long run.  I'll guarantee you that there aren't many youth basketball programs that do it the way it should be done.  I personally think that all youth basketball coaches should attend at least one sort of seminar with the school's varsity head coach for ideas, useful drills, and maybe some preferred concepts to focus on every practice.  I'm fairly certain that no towns are doing that.  If so, please enlighten me.

I noticed you mentioned HJ.  I would never take anything away from their accomplishments or the volunteers coaching their youth sports.. but.. they have a player on their team with multiple big time D1 offers and another player on their team that had a father who was a varsity head coach for several years.  Is the youth program responsible for ALL of the success they're seeing?  Or do they maybe have some players that spend a huge amount of time working on the game outside of the season?

I completely agree with you!  Little dribblers IF used correctly can be a good START but must not be the ONLY avenue to use.  I can speak on HJ because i am highly familiar, and the fathers of those players were also involved with that group of girls' development more so Jackson's dad simply because he was there longer.  The other player's dad immediately became involved as soon as they moved to the area a few years ago.  Also they worked hand and hand with the varsity coaches in doing so, which is how its supposed to be done and my point when I said that its all about who is leading the way.  Coach Fogo and the powers that be have ALWAYS made the gyms accessible 24/7, if they away on vacation they still made sure that the gyms were open for the girls.  And because of this majority of the players of that group have spent countless hours in the gym over the years working on their games and have spent many summers even playing together.  All that work is the reason for their success, thats why they are such a joy to watch play.  Yes they do have a VERY dominant player but she has been right there with that group since 1st grade and when they got older and she is away during the summer playing with her national team, the others were still in the gym getting better so when they all got together it is definitely fun to watch!

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3 minutes ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

I completely agree with you!  Little dribblers IF used correctly can be a good START but must not be the ONLY avenue to use.  I can speak on HJ because i am highly familiar, and the fathers of those players were also involved with that group of girls' development more so Jackson's dad simply because he was there longer the other player's dad immediately became involved as soon as they moved to the area a few years ago.  Also they worked hand and hand with the varsity coaches in doing so, which is how its supposed to be done and my point when I said that its all about who is leading the way.  Coach Fogo and the powers that be have ALWAYS made the gyms accessible 24/7, if they away on vacation they still made sure that the gyms were open for the girls.  And because of this majority of the players of that group have spent countless hours in the gym over the years working on their games and have spent many summers even playing together.  All that work is the reason for their success, thats why they are such a joy to watch play.  Yes they do have a VERY dominant player but she has been right there with that group since 1st grade and when they got older and she is away during the summer playing with her national team, the others were still in the gym getting better so when they all got together it is definitely fun to watch!

Then HJ is most certainly doing it right. They are making all of the necessary deposits.  That's what I used to tell my kids growing up.. If you need a withdrawal later, deposit the time/effort now. 

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here is another thought to get some discussion on the original topic.  Shooters vs scorers.  

Depends a little on the system they are in.   We are a pressure defense and dribble drive offensive team.  (if you can't dribble drive then your minutes are limited a little) We are trying to develop players that can drive, score, and shoot.     We have two players shooting about 30-35% from behind the line.  One has made 47 3's and the other has made 38 - (29 games) not sure how those numbers compare to the other "shooters" in the area but I know the opposing coach's yell "SHOOTER SHOOTER" every time one of them catches the ball... Lol 

 

Our gym is available a lot during the off season for our girls and the past 3 years we have had great turnout in numbers of girls that access it.   There has been a direct correlation between this group putting in work in the off-season and having team success in the season.

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12 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

10-4.  And btw.. I can think of very few situations where girls can't access the gym during the summer.  I know that a lot of schools have volleyball nets up but that doesn't effect shooting or ball handling work.  They probably won't have access like being described at MM but it's there. 

And yeah.. I personally get tired of looking on this forum and can't even see scores posted.  Not that I have a vested interest but I usually like to keep up with all sports to an extent. 

Oh boy dont get me started on this lol.  Yes the girls may be able to walk in but as soon as they commit the "cardinal sin" of dribbling or shooting a basketball all hell breaks lose and they are made to get out because they may corrupt volleyball aspirations lol.  But that is a WHOLE different conversation.  I cant speak on everybody but i do know about a lot lol. 

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5 minutes ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

Oh boy dont get me started on this lol.  Yes the girls may be able to walk in but as soon as they commit the "cardinal sin" of dribbling or shooting a basketball all hell breaks lose and they are made to get out because they may corrupt volleyball aspirations lol.  But that is a WHOLE different conversation.  I cant speak on everybody but i do know about a lot lol. 

We have one gym for volleyball and one for basketball during the off season.  

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17 minutes ago, Coach.Shu said:

here is another thought to get some discussion on the original topic.  Shooters vs scorers.  

Depends a little on the system they are in.   We are a pressure defense and dribble drive offensive team.  (if you can't dribble drive then your minutes are limited a little) We are trying to develop players that can drive, score, and shoot.     We have two players shooting about 30-35% from behind the line.  One has made 47 3's and the other has made 38 - (29 games) not sure how those numbers compare to the other "shooters" in the area but I know the opposing coach's yell "SHOOTER SHOOTER" every time one of them catches the ball... Lol 

 

Our gym is available a lot during the off season for our girls and the past 3 years we have had great turnout in numbers of girls that access it.   There has been a direct correlation between this group putting in work in the off-season and having team success in the season.

Yes shooters are different than scorers and yes it does has a lot to do with systems.  You guys have #15 and #22 who I think are shooters.  I love how you guys put one in each corner against zones.  You doing things the right way and making things accessible to your players and it is definitely paying off.

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4 minutes ago, Coach.Shu said:

here is another thought to get some discussion on the original topic.  Shooters vs scorers.  

Depends a little on the system they are in.   We are a pressure defense and dribble drive offensive team.  (if you can't dribble drive then your minutes are limited a little) We are trying to develop players that can drive, score, and shoot.     We have two players shooting about 30-35% from behind the line.  One has made 47 3's and the other has made 38 - (29 games) not sure how those numbers compare to the other "shooters" in the area but I know the opposing coach's yell "SHOOTER SHOOTER" every time one of them catches the ball... Lol 

 

Our gym is available a lot during the off season for our girls and the past 3 years we have had great turnout in numbers of girls that access it.   There has been a direct correlation between this group putting in work in the off-season and having team success in the season.

In my complete opinion, it seems that schools locally are so hindered by not only numbers but by players with completely different skill sets it seems to me that it would be a nightmare to come up with something that your specific group of girls can actually do (system) from year to year.  It also seems that the reason so many girls teams in the area are so "pressure, steal, layup" oriented is because they may not have 5 kids capable of a conventional half-court basketball style of play.  Not sure.  Can your "shooters" create their own shots?  Because I wouldn't put it past a lot of these area schools to junk defense your shooters.  Do you do dribble drive stuff because you see a lot of man defense?  I love dribble drive stuff but I rarely see high school girls teams capable of doing it.  It's pretty much all what most NBA teams do nowadays.  If so that's kind of great.  That you see man AND you have the personnel necessary to run a dribble drive type of offense.  

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17 minutes ago, Coach.Shu said:

What teams/schools does HJ lil dribblers compete against?  

HJ usually has a good turnout for lil dribblers where they are able to put together about 6 teams or so.  If the numbers are down and they cant, then they get together with HF, Devers, Liberty Silsbee or whoever wants to play games.

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7 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

In my complete opinion, it seems that schools locally are so hindered by not only numbers but by players with completely different skill sets it seems to me that it would be a nightmare to come up with something that your specific group of girls can actually do (system) from year to year.  It also seems that the reason so many girls teams in the area are so "pressure, steal, layup" oriented is because they may not have 5 kids capable of a conventional half-court basketball style of play.  Not sure.  Can your "shooters" create their own shots?  Because I wouldn't put it past a lot of these area schools to junk defense your shooters.  Do you do dribble drive stuff because you see a lot of man defense?  I love dribble drive stuff but I rarely see high school girls teams capable of doing it.  It's pretty much all what most NBA teams do nowadays.  If so that's kind of great.  That you see man AND you have the personnel necessary to run a dribble drive type of offense.  

No they don't really create their own shots at the three point line.  They rely on their man helping on the drive.   We run our dribble drive against man or zone.     

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2 hours ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

I do also, thats why I am able to say that the ones who do make gyms available are greatly outnumbered by the ones who dont especially for girls in our area. Or they say its gonna be open gym but lets be honest.....it is primarily for the boys.  Then the girls have to "get in where they fit in" which in that case some will but most wont. 

I agree with you, open gym is usually full of boys but several of our girls on our team grew up playing with boys and it shows on game days.

 

On 1/10/2020 at 1:41 PM, BMTSoulja1 said:

2 things here.  I've seen shooter with my own eyes that took like 10 3's and might be missed 1.  Mailyn Wilkerson from Summer Creek gets buckets in her sleep.  2nd thing here is I don't think Cam is our best 3pt shooter.  she can ahoot, yea, but I'm leaning more toward Cooper, Anderson, or Boudreaux as far as the 3 ball goes.  

I would have to say non of them are pure shooters, more of scorers because they will get their points from a variety of ways.  

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1 hour ago, oldschool2 said:

10-4.  And btw.. I can think of very few situations where girls can't access the gym during the summer.  I know that a lot of schools have volleyball nets up but that doesn't effect shooting or ball handling work.  They probably won't have access like being described at MM but it's there. 

And yeah.. I personally get tired of looking on this forum and can't even see scores posted.  Not that I have a vested interest but I usually like to keep up with all sports to an extent. 

This irks me!!!  Can't find them on here.  Can't find them on Maxpreps.  Can't find them on Twitter, Facebook, etc.  The district chairman (Channelview) can't even give you girl basketball finals.  Lucky I've established a method (email, messenger, text) to contact just about every coach in our 6A district and with Soulja's help we get it done.  

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26 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

In my complete opinion, it seems that schools locally are so hindered by not only numbers but by players with completely different skill sets it seems to me that it would be a nightmare to come up with something that your specific group of girls can actually do (system) from year to year.  It also seems that the reason so many girls teams in the area are so "pressure, steal, layup" oriented is because they may not have 5 kids capable of a conventional half-court basketball style of play.  Not sure.  Can your "shooters" create their own shots?  Because I wouldn't put it past a lot of these area schools to junk defense your shooters.  Do you do dribble drive stuff because you see a lot of man defense?  I love dribble drive stuff but I rarely see high school girls teams capable of doing it.  It's pretty much all what most NBA teams do nowadays.  If so that's kind of great.  That you see man AND you have the personnel necessary to run a dribble drive type of offense.  

You should come out and watch some games!  There are more half court offense teams in this area then you may think!  Now some teams do lack overall athleticism to just "pressure, steal, layup" but there definitely are some half court offenses being played.  Now what you dont see, is a lot of man to man defense in the area, only a handful of teams play it.  As far as being able to create their own shot, there are so many in the area, here is just a small list of some of them:

Ashlon Jackson - HJ                                       

Delana Carter - Barbers Hill

Kaden Morris - Lumberton

Jayda Argumon - Woodville

Jordyn Beatty - Woodville

Asia Mitchell - Jasper

Princess Anderson - United

Cassie Chavez - Legacy

Mollee Priddy - PNG

Faith Fregia - Orangefield

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11 minutes ago, $$Buckets$$ said:

You should come out and watch some games!  There are more half court offense teams in this area then you may think!  Now some teams do lack overall athleticism to just "pressure, steal, layup" but there definitely are some half court offenses being played.  Now what you dont see, is a lot of man to man defense in the area, only a handful of teams play it.  As far as being able to create their own shot, there are so many in the area, here is just a small list of some of them:

Ashlon Jackson - HJ                                       

Delana Carter - Barbers Hill

Kaden Morris - Lumberton

Jayda Argumon - Woodville

Jordyn Beatty - Woodville

Asia Mitchell - Jasper

Princess Anderson - United

Cassie Chavez - Legacy

Mollee Priddy - PNG

Faith Fregia - Orangefield

I really do.  I actually have friends with ties (one way or another) with all of those schools. 

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I might be a bit late but thought I'd chime in. I love these types of discussions.

I'm of the favor that basketball is a sport where, like tennis (which is what I grew up playing actually), the more practice you put in the gym, the more improvement you will see. 

Shooting is like free throws. If you don't practice them repeatedly, you won't be as good. 

Here in West Texas where I'm from, the seed is planted in the youth sports and form is preached on how you shoot the ball at that level and it gets more advanced as you grow into a team's system, pending on who the coach is.

Now, technology has changed the game. We have the shooting gun that helps with shooting as a whole with repetition and apps like HomeCourt where we can learn instantaneous by video if players have a problem with shooting. 

I saw that Martin's Mill was mentioned and I think they are a perfect example of how basketball is run. Now some may say that is a bad example because they don't have volleyball, but to be the best, you have to look at how the best do basketball and what makes them so good, their defense, the dribble drive and shooting

The tough part is finding players who play straight basketball in the smaller communities. Now, basketball, like football, is kinda slowly becoming urbanized where if you don't play all the time, you are not going to be as good as a player who does. 

It's easy to talk about players but coaches also have a role, by allowing access to facilities. If they gym is open, that's an opportunity for the players to get better. 

Watching TV was also something I saw mentioned and I think that is an underrated part of getting better. Sometimes, you have to watch the best of the best at the collegiate or pro level as well to improve.

For the shooter v. scorer discussion, if you can shoot it, you definitely can score. I agree with Coach Shu's part for sure.

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HJ’s success with this group started with the little dribblers program and they (The Girls) have been playing with each other outside of little dribblers since the Seniors were in the third grade and I know this because my has been in the same gyms as them playing with them or against them, practicing with them. They have had a great mentor leading the way in Jackson’s dad who volunteered a ton of time working on the girls fundamentals from a very young age! I was working hard to develop the Lumberton girls at the same time and boy did we have some fun times competing against each other, but the biggest difference was all the parents and kids in HJ bought in and only a few bought in in Lumberton, of course I really rocked the boat and moved to PNG! Most people don’t know this but three of the starters for PNG are all from Lumberton Little dribblers!

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