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D3zii

Wil Brook ever take the next step??

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I was at the WB-NS game with a friend of mind, and you could just tell NS was just on a different Level from WB. I sit there wondering why though. I know NS is in a big Houston Metro and probably has its pick of the litter but still. BMT isn’t a slouch both the QB from NS as well as Katy are from Beaumont and start for their respected programs, so I don’t think it’s talent. I remember when brook had a team with 4 future NFL players and still couldn’t beat teams like Katy Westfield or NS (2005-2006). Its just like no matter how good Brook is or how many athletes they have they’ll never been in that Top tier with the Allens, Katys, North Shores, just to name a few. They’ll have a decent season here and there but never consistent.
 

I’d like to hear why you’ll think that is. Coaching, shortage of athletes (I know this isn’t) , no program longevity?? Or is it just the area, the metros will always be king since it’s more to choose from?? I wanna say that but you have teams like Longview or Lufkin who are powerhouses but have no more than maybe 100k!  I just wanna hear you guys thoughts and do you think Brook or any school in Beaumont would ever take that next step and become a top tier team consistently

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3 minutes ago, D3zii said:

I was at the WB-NS game with a friend of mind, and you could just tell NS was just on a different Level from WB. I sit there wondering why though. I know NS is in a big Houston Metro and probably has its pick of the litter but still. BMT isn’t a slouch both the QB from NS as well as Katy are from Beaumont and start for their respected programs, so I don’t think it’s talent. I remember when brook had a team with 4 future NFL players and still couldn’t beat teams like Katy Westfield or NS (2005-2006). Its just like no matter how good Brook is or how many athletes they have they’ll never been in that Top tier with the Allens, Katys, North Shores, just to name a few. They’ll have a decent season here and there but never consistent.
 

I’d like to hear why you’ll think that is. Coaching, shortage of athletes (I know this isn’t) , no program longevity?? Or is it just the area, the metros will always be king since it’s more to choose from?? I wanna say that but you have teams like Longview or Lufkin who are powerhouses but have no more than maybe 100k!  I just wanna hear you guys thoughts and do you think Brook or any school in Beaumont would ever take that next step and become a top tier team consistently

Westbrook was in the state final last year just about every team in Texas would take that. One thing you need to add to your list is facilities. North Shore has talent coaching and the facilities to compete year in and year out.

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15 minutes ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Westbrook was in the state final last year just about every team in Texas would take that. One thing you need to add to your list is facilities. North Shore has talent coaching and the facilities to compete year in and year out.

Yea, don’t get me wrong Brook has definetly had success but I’m wondering why does it seem like a huge gap between schools like Brook and NS

Yes Facilities. Didn’t think of that 

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How many kids do NS have? I believe it comes down to talent level. WB held there own but don’t you think if they could add BU to make one high school it would have been probably a lot closer. 

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Soooo.......I haven't posted in a while..lol. But this topic sparks my interest TREMENDOUSLY. I work with people from all over east and s.e. tx. Many of which played for some of these powerhouses. I just had this conversation with a guy who played rb for Westfield back in the mid to late 2000's when they were a dominant team in Houston before Dekaney opened. I asked this VERY SAME question. He said it was their ATTITUDE. They vowed to not lose at home and to not lose to any Houston schools. He also said that that attitude starts on the middle school level and that the hs coaches frequently visited and passed down the playbook to them BEFORE they got to hs. 

They were also very committed to lifting weights throughout the offseason. I asked about supplements. He said they didn't take any. I do believe most of the powerhouse teams that can afford it have nutritional coaches on staff and a budget for supplies to give their kids an edge physically. Bigger, faster, and stronger still works. Couple that with a coaching staff that knows what it takes and oh boy....

My assessment: Their kids are bigger, tougher, meaner, more experienced, more determined, more committed, and therefore more confident than ours...... hands down. It's one thing to beat up on undermanned, undersized, and outnumbered ozen and central for all of these years and feel good and satisfied about it. It's a whole 'nother thing to take on the state's best and see where you really stand. It humbles you. 

I do believe that wb is on the right track though, but are still quite a ways behind as far as everything it takes to be on that level. Hopefully the experience from last year and this year propels them closer. IMHO...😉

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If West Brook could only be as good in every area of the game as they are on offense they'd be at that next level.

So many points/yardage given up on special teams and bad tackling on defense last night. That and a horrible kicking game. If they can improve on some of this by playoff time, they could make another good run.

 

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Pear orchard eluded to this as well but I ve seen it first hand.  I ve coached at laporte east chambers and bmt(hs and middle). Your middle school is where the foundation and attitude is set for your program.  The involvement the high school coaches have at la porte and ec in the junior high programs is by far more involved than bmt. It’s not even close.  And not just in season but offseason as well.

at la porte and ec middle schools they had a work out program just like and as intense as the high schools.  Bmt middle schools are a joke.  If they even touch weights it’s more of just an introduction to it and that s it. Also the middle school Athletic facilities And lack of weights are not conducive to a winning program.

i was taken back when I first started coaching here after being at la porte and ec.

bmt middle schools do not have a true Athletic period where all the coaches are in the period. It’s usually just two.

at Laporte a def and off coach would come at least once a week to a ms practice. At ec most of the hs coaches were at every jh practice for the 1st hr.

wb has some elite talent in certain areas but what I think is the difference between wb and say Allen, Duncanville , ns, Katy. Are all other positions.  They may not be elite and getting 10-20 d1 offers but they get offers unlike wb whether it be fbs, div2 div 3 or jc.

If you take just starters on def and off for ns and wb. Who would have the most kids offered?

when I first came to bmt and saw the lack of organization in middle school athletics I  talked to the AD as well as the head coaches about ways to improve this area. And theY knew this already but acted as if their hands were tied (and they may be) but they need to press the issue with admin and keep pressing but really to get answers and change the parents have to get involved.

also the middle school coaches need to go to coaching clinics. Some not all don’t have a clue in even how to run a drill much less a practice or program.  Main reason I got out of coaching as well as I was spending more time with other people s kids than my own.

my 2 cents

 

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Can we please stop comparing North Shore to West Brook. Its levels to football in Texas.  North Shore is the upper level of football in Texas. Katy North Shore South Lake Carrol Allen.  West Brook can countine to build to be a power in Div. 2 6A.   The enrollment will is all most equal to BU and WB combined.  Also the biggest advantage NS has is that good players come to the school that dont live in the area.  So WB would have to take players from PA, NED,PNG ,and WOS.   The middle school athletic period is true but some of the players at NS went to middle school in other districts.  WB progam is going in the right direction.  This years playoff will determine if WB is a power program or was last year an admiration.  

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7 hours ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Westbrook was in the state final last year just about every team in Texas would take that. One thing you need to add to your list is facilities. North Shore has talent coaching and the facilities to compete year in and year out.

?   

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After watching the game I think it is pretty obvious that NS had better athletes than WB. WB has a couple but across the roster, NS is loaded. Especially on the Oline. They had some monsters up front. I was very impressed with Bryce Anderson and Thad. Kids can GO. WB just couldn't stop the run But with that Oline and those backs, I can't blame them or the coaches. Just a lot better team. They held their own though 

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1 hour ago, NHSBulldogFan said:

Go compare the weight room of Westbrook and North Shore you'll see what I mean

I could compare NS and Newton's also.   We could also compare NS's with WOS'.  Doesn't seem to be a detriment to Newton or WOS!    Weights are weights.  Doesn't matter if one is fancier than the other.  I'm sure there are losing programs that have fancy weight rooms.  I think WB has a decent coach.  But I would bet that if NS's coach was at WB it would be a different story.  Again, just my opinion. 

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8 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I could compare NS and Newton's also.   We could also compare NS's with WOS'.  Doesn't seem to be a detriment to Newton or WOS!    Weights are weights.  Doesn't matter if one is fancier than the other.  I'm sure there are losing programs that have fancy weight rooms.  I think WB has a decent coach.  But I would bet that if NS's coach was at WB it would be a different story.  Again, just my opinion. 

It's much less of a deal in 3A and 4A than it is in 6A just my opinion 

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7 hours ago, PearOrchardPanther74 said:

Soooo.......I haven't posted in a while..lol. But this topic sparks my interest TREMENDOUSLY. I work with people from all over east and s.e. tx. Many of which played for some of these powerhouses. I just had this conversation with a guy who played rb for Westfield back in the mid to late 2000's when they were a dominant team in Houston before Dekaney opened. I asked this VERY SAME question. He said it was their ATTITUDE. They vowed to not lose at home and to not lose to any Houston schools. He also said that that attitude starts on the middle school level and that the hs coaches frequently visited and passed down the playbook to them BEFORE they got to hs. 

They were also very committed to lifting weights throughout the offseason. I asked about supplements. He said they didn't take any. I do believe most of the powerhouse teams that can afford it have nutritional coaches on staff and a budget for supplies to give their kids an edge physically. Bigger, faster, and stronger still works. Couple that with a coaching staff that knows what it takes and oh boy....

My assessment: Their kids are bigger, tougher, meaner, more experienced, more determined, more committed, and therefore more confident than ours...... hands down. It's one thing to beat up on undermanned, undersized, and outnumbered ozen and central for all of these years and feel good and satisfied about it. It's a whole 'nother thing to take on the state's best and see where you really stand. It humbles you. 

I do believe that wb is on the right track though, but are still quite a ways behind as far as everything it takes to be on that level. Hopefully the experience from last year and this year propels them closer. IMHO...😉

I don’t know this poster, but there a lot of truths above. Certainly there are some other factors, but without the points above, a program will not reach its potential. Imo. 

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7 hours ago, EAGLEFOREVER said:

2500 students to 5000 students, if 6A ever gets divided maybe things will be different but that will depend on cut off numbers

This^

You can say a lot of things about the programs but I think it come down to numbers at some point. I was at the game last night and you could tell the difference from the beginning 

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5 hours ago, setxhoopsfan said:

Can we please stop comparing North Shore to West Brook. Its levels to football in Texas.  North Shore is the upper level of football in Texas. Katy North Shore South Lake Carrol Allen.  West Brook can countine to build to be a power in Div. 2 6A.   The enrollment will is all most equal to BU and WB combined.  Also the biggest advantage NS has is that good players come to the school that dont live in the area.  So WB would have to take players from PA, NED,PNG ,and WOS.   The middle school athletic period is true but some of the players at NS went to middle school in other districts.  WB progam is going in the right direction.  This years playoff will determine if WB is a power program or was last year an admiration.  

'Can we get them to address this please?   Name names of kids that don’t live in our area and play on our football team. Setx hoops fan what good players we have that don’t live in our zone? Or that we’ve recruited.'

- The anonymous NS fan

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10 minutes ago, BMTSoulja1 said:

'Can we get them to address this please?   Name names of kids that don’t live in our area and play on our football team. Setx hoops fan what good players we have that don’t live in our zone? Or that we’ve recruited.'

- The anonymous NS fan

Why don't you tell him to get an account on here and ask, real easy to create an account. Good grief. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, setxhoopsfan said:

Can we please stop comparing North Shore to West Brook. Its levels to football in Texas.  North Shore is the upper level of football in Texas. Katy North Shore South Lake Carrol Allen.  West Brook can countine to build to be a power in Div. 2 6A.   The enrollment will is all most equal to BU and WB combined.  Also the biggest advantage NS has is that good players come to the school that dont live in the area.  So WB would have to take players from PA, NED,PNG ,and WOS.   The middle school athletic period is true but some of the players at NS went to middle school in other districts.  WB progam is going in the right direction.  This years playoff will determine if WB is a power program or was last year an admiration.  

Right now they are not guaranteed to go IIA, that’s the thing

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Enrollment numbers, transfers, and coaching.

It is amazing that year after year, Katy ends up with an OL standing 6'4" - 6'6" and weighing 275 lbs. - 300 lbs.  Year in and year out, Katy seems to find a RB or two that can play D1 football.  The move-in program at Katy is second to none.  NS is similar.  My sister-in-law teaches at NS.  Enrollment of 4,000+ kids and then the Mustangs sprinkle in 1 or 2 move-ins and transfers.  Add good coaching to those ingredients and voila, you have a perennial top-notch program.  Those programs have resources.  They have athletes, money, facilities, solid coaching, and a commitment to staying on top.

Go Indians.  Peace.

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7 hours ago, Tigers94 said:

If West Brook could only be as good in every area of the game as they are on offense they'd be at that next level.

So many points/yardage given up on special teams and bad tackling on defense last night. That and a horrible kicking game. If they can improve on some of this by playoff time, they could make another good run.

 

That would mean different players. You have to play the hand you’re dealt, otherwise I think they call that recruiting.

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I understand the whole transfer thing ppl rag on, but i hate to say it but here it is: if you build it they will come

 

Just look at New Caney ISD football teams now for example, it wasn't like that just several years ago. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, PearOrchardPanther74 said:

Soooo.......I haven't posted in a while..lol. But this topic sparks my interest TREMENDOUSLY. I work with people from all over east and s.e. tx. Many of which played for some of these powerhouses. I just had this conversation with a guy who played rb for Westfield back in the mid to late 2000's when they were a dominant team in Houston before Dekaney opened. I asked this VERY SAME question. He said it was their ATTITUDE. They vowed to not lose at home and to not lose to any Houston schools. He also said that that attitude starts on the middle school level and that the hs coaches frequently visited and passed down the playbook to them BEFORE they got to hs. 

They were also very committed to lifting weights throughout the offseason. I asked about supplements. He said they didn't take any. I do believe most of the powerhouse teams that can afford it have nutritional coaches on staff and a budget for supplies to give their kids an edge physically. Bigger, faster, and stronger still works. Couple that with a coaching staff that knows what it takes and oh boy....

My assessment: Their kids are bigger, tougher, meaner, more experienced, more determined, more committed, and therefore more confident than ours...... hands down. It's one thing to beat up on undermanned, undersized, and outnumbered ozen and central for all of these years and feel good and satisfied about it. It's a whole 'nother thing to take on the state's best and see where you really stand. It humbles you. 

I do believe that wb is on the right track though, but are still quite a ways behind as far as everything it takes to be on that level. Hopefully the experience from last year and this year propels them closer. IMHO...😉

Man I love this point of view. I never really thought of it like that but it makes so much sense, to start at the lower level and that’s where you build the foundation. The kids at North Shore just looked bigger, and it was crazy because I know the kids at Brook work out hard everyday. But the nutrition part makes a lot of sense. 

great take 

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39 minutes ago, 1989NDN said:

Enrollment numbers, transfers, and coaching.

It is amazing that year after year, Katy ends up with an OL standing 6'4" - 6'6" and weighing 275 lbs. - 300 lbs.  Year in and year out, Katy seems to find a RB or two that can play D1 football.  The move-in program at Katy is second to none.  NS is similar.  My sister-in-law teaches at NS.  Enrollment of 4,000+ kids and then the Mustangs sprinkle in 1 or 2 move-ins and transfers.  Add good coaching to those ingredients and voila, you have a perennial top-notch program.  Those programs have resources.  They have athletes, money, facilities, solid coaching, and a commitment to staying on top.

Go Indians.  Peace.

This is something I have seen lately. I had a nephew who was working out in Katy with Kerry Bennett a few years back. He told me Katy will go to Fort Bend to get a RB/WR and have been doing it for years. 
 

Also mentioned most of NS kids are from North Houston/Spring/Humble area...so there basically recruiting, 

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This is what i see as one of the problems.I seen it with my son and its still going on today.Go to any lil league game and your going to see the best players playing both ways.This goes all the way to the 9th grade.Then you throw kids on the field in 11th and 12th grade to play defense usually.They had no time at all at beening on the field.Thats why the offensive side of the ball is always much better than the defense.These kids were never really developed

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