Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[Reagan]

I'm curious about something:  Is this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR bond offer the largest tax increase in the history of Jefferson County?  Can anyone confirm?

[Reagan]

11 minutes ago, bigdog said:

Klein is that you?  Since you are quoting verbatim from his page.      No one in Austin is questioning it and they have been transparent on how they arrived at the numbers and what needs to be done.   You need to actually go into the schools and see the situation they are in before coming to conclusions.

Klein brings up good points.  Good discussion points.  But apparently I'm not the only that visits his site!      Like I said, nothing was confirmed as of yet.  Do we have some inside info that it's a fact no one in Austin is questioning this?  There's no doubt, I'm sure, that the numbers are transparent.  But, what's not been clear by those in favor has the total consequences of this massive tax increase.  But, I will bring it to the forefront here in due time.

[Bigdog]

28 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I'm curious about something:  Is this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR bond offer the largest tax increase in the history of Jefferson County?  Can anyone confirm?

not even close.

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

I'm curious about something:  Is this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR bond offer the largest tax increase in the history of Jefferson County?  Can anyone confirm?

Beaumont ISD’s last one was $389 million. The diff is that their population is 117,000, not 17,000 like Nederland. So in hard dollars, no. In cost per resident, it’s about 5x larger than BISD’s last one. 

Or only $30/month, depending on who’s coming up with the statistics. 

[navydawg31]

I would like to know where these “Austin People” are quoting this stuff, I would like to see these articles. 

[Rez Ipsa]

Does the "modified seating" in the stadium include increased capacity? I would like to see Nederland's stadium get up to at least the same as PNG's. I think PNG seats 13,000. I think Nederland currently seats 8,000. 

[Reagan]

14 hours ago, navydawg31 said:

14 hours ago, navydawg31 said:

I would like to know where these “Austin People” are quoting this stuff, I would like to see these articles. 

I would like to know where these “Austin People” are quoting this stuff, I would like to see these articles. 

Like I said in the original post, it's been talked about but not yet verified.  BigDog has stated that no one in Austin is talking about the massive tax increase.  BigDog sounded pretty confident so I'll defer to him/her on that one.  We are always seeking the truth and gaining the whole story.  Again, nothing that has been stated about  this massive tax increase has been wrong by those involved in it.  But, the whole story has not yet been told.  I'll ask anyone here:  Does anyone think this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will not have an affect on a family's budget far and above what they are telling us?  But I'll lay it out in due time. 

[Bigdog]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

Like I said in the original post, it's been talked about but not yet verified.  BigDog has stated that no one in Austin is talking about the massive tax increase.  BigDog sounded pretty confident so I'll defer to him/her on that one.  We are always seeking the truth and gaining the whole story.  Again, nothing that has been stated about  this massive tax increase has been wrong by those involved in it.  But, the whole story has not yet been told.  I'll ask anyone here:  Does anyone think this 156,000,000 MILLION DOLLAR tax increase will not have an affect on a family's budget far and above what they are telling us?  But I'll lay it out in due time. 

Something else that you are failing to mention,  the bond will put 156 million dollars into the local economy .  That's paying the workers, architects, welders, etc.   They will spend that money locally for food, cars, etc  so the local businesses that you are so worried about will see an increase in revenues.

[Bigdog]

7 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Does the "modified seating" in the stadium include increased capacity? I would like to see Nederland's stadium get up to at least the same as PNG's. I think PNG seats 13,000. I think Nederland currently seats 8,000. 

Nederland seats about 11,000 now, not 8,000.   Some of the modified seating will probably be ADA compliant but I wouldn't be surprised if they add some seating as well.

[navydawg31]

8 hours ago, Rez Ipsa said:

Does the "modified seating" in the stadium include increased capacity? I would like to see Nederland's stadium get up to at least the same as PNG's. I think PNG seats 13,000. I think Nederland currently seats 8,000. 

I think we want to cut the visiting side of the stadium seating to about 1500.. kinda like how PNG did 

[navydawg31]

Klein is trying to scare Nederland people just like every other bond. No surprise there. 

[WOSdrummer99]

5 hours ago, bigdog said:

Something else that you are failing to mention,  the bond will put 156 million dollars into the local economy .  That's paying the workers, architects, welders, etc.   They will spend that money locally for food, cars, etc  so the local businesses that you are so worried about will see an increase in revenues.

Is there something in the bond that says they must use local companies and American labor?

[Bigdog]

1 hour ago, WOSdrummer99 said:

Is there something in the bond that says they must use local companies and American labor?

I don't know.  But they used local companies last bond.

[CardinalBacker]

7 hours ago, bigdog said:

Something else that you are failing to mention,  the bond will put 156 million dollars into the local economy .  That's paying the workers, architects, welders, etc.   They will spend that money locally for food, cars, etc  so the local businesses that you are so worried about will see an increase in revenues.

It's 156 million dollars additional tax dollars that will actually be collected from the citizens and businesses there in Nederland.... A fraction of that revenue will be funneled back into the local economy by wages earned by local workers (assuming that some of them are actually hired to work on the construction) and if any materials/contractors are acquired from Nederland sources.  Otherwise, it's just $156 million being sucked out of the local economy. 

The idea that the money will stay in Nederland is laughable at best.  I just don't think Setzer's is gonna be able to fill that order. 

 

[Bigdog]

3 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

It's 156 million dollars additional tax dollars that will actually be collected from the citizens and businesses there in Nederland.... A fraction of that revenue will be funneled back into the local economy by wages earned by local workers (assuming that some of them are actually hired to work on the construction) and if any materials/contractors are acquired from Nederland sources.  Otherwise, it's just $156 million being sucked out of the local economy. 

The idea that the money will stay in Nederland is laughable at best.  I just don't think Setzer's is gonna be able to fill that order. 

 

So no one will eat or buy anything?  I’m not claiming that all of the money will come back into the local economy but some will.

[Reagan]

I'll tell how this massive bond issue could get my vote and possibly hundreds more.  This is my version of the "art of the deal."   They would need to delay the bond vote for a couple of months.  During this time they would then attach a rider that states:   If a family does not have children going to any NISD school then these families do not pay any school taxes.  The only time one pays is when/if children are actually enrolled in any NISD school.  Think about it, where else except government entities, do you pay for something that you don't get?  It's like going to the store for milk and eggs and they force you to pay for bread even if you don't want it or carry it out.  This is actually probably something that should be a source of topic state wide.  But anyway, let's here the pros and cons for NISD.

[WOSdrummer99]

Not sure what ned enrollment numbers are. But if this was the case no bond would ever pass. Would have to divide 156 mil by even less households. Then they would just find other ways to tax it. Imagine sales tax at 20%

[88Warrior]

1 hour ago, Reagan said:

I'll tell how this massive bond issue could get my vote and possibly hundreds more.  This is my version of the "art of the deal."   They would need to delay the bond vote for a couple of months.  During this time they would then attach a rider that states:   If a family does not have children going to any NISD school then these families do not pay any school taxes.  The only time one pays is when/if children are actually enrolled in any NISD school.  Think about it, where else except government entities, do you pay for something that you don't get?  It's like going to the store for milk and eggs and they force you to pay for bread even if you don't want it or carry it out.  This is actually probably something that should be a source of topic state wide.  But anyway, let's here the pros and cons for NISD.

Surely you say this in jest??

[Reagan]

35 minutes ago, 88Warrior said:

Surely you say this in jest??

I know it's something that people are not used to thinking about because it's always been that way. But does it make it right?   Paying for something that one doesn't get anything in return if one does not have kids in the system.  Think about it --  you wouldn't put up with it in any other situation.  So, give us your pros or cons.

[88Warrior]

28 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I know it's something that people are not used to thinking about because it's always been that way. But does it make it right?   Paying for something that one doesn't get anything in return if one does not have kids in the system.  Think about it --  you wouldn't put up with it in any other situation.  So, give us your pros or cons.

I don’t live school district so I won’t comment about the specifics of the NISD but will address your statement of ”paying for something you’re not getting anything out of” or something along those lines. You don’t think your property value is a reflection of the quality of school district your home is in? So if this bond was passed and property values went up you would be getting something out of it while others bared the burden. The school district could not put in a “rider” to exclude those with no children even if it wanted to..doesn’t legally work that way..I don’t know you but just reading your previous posts I know you’re against the bond and I get that..I really do..It’s a huge sum of money and debt the taxpayers will carry for many many years..If it’s that big of a deal to you need to organize your like minded friends and come at the supporters of the bond with solid facts and not emotions...I don’t have a dog in the hunt..it’s up to the will of the NISD taxpayers to decide..Best of luck to all.

[mat]

All district's bordering NISD have passed multiple bonds in excess of what NISD is trying to pass. You can equate that to the street or neighborhood in your community that never updates or improves.

[mat]

Most districts that try to pass a bond offer campus tours to the public .I would suggest those for, against or on the fence take advantage of that opportunity. People give opinion after opinion about what is best and have never stepped inside the schools.

If you're again athletic improvements you can vote against it but still help education.

[CardinalBacker]

57 minutes ago, mat said:

All district's bordering NISD have passed multiple bonds in excess of what NISD is trying to pass. You can equate that to the street or neighborhood in your community that never updates or improves.

You can toss Beaumont and PA out of the mix because they’ll pass anything. 

Fun fact... Port Arthur ISD has the highest per student spending in the state. Higher than Allen, Katy, and everybody else.

Hasnt really helped graduation rates or property values, has it?

I don’t think anybody is saying Nederland doesn’t need anything. I believe a bond is in order... it’s the price tag that is freaking people out. It just seems out of line for a town of this size. 

[mat]

7 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

You can toss Beaumont and PA out of the mix because they’ll pass anything. 

Fun fact... Port Arthur ISD has the highest per student spending in the state. Higher than Allen, Katy, and everybody else.

Hasnt really helped graduation rates or property values, has it?

I don’t think anybody is saying Nederland doesn’t need anything. I believe a bond is in order... it’s the price tag that is freaking people out. It just seems out of line for a town of this size. 

Why toss PA and Beaumont out? They're still NISD's neighbor and their facilities are far superior. If NISD tried to pass a bond for less than was needed the taxpayers would want to know why there were still needs after the bond was passed. How would tax payers feel if the board came to the voters in 5-10 years for another bond? Had Nederland passed the previous failed bond the small approved bond and this one would not be needed. Nederland voted for board members to lead their district into the future. It stands to reason they have invested much more time in evaluating the needs than most citizens and posters.

[WOSgrad]

Look, I am pretty dog gone conservative my self and yeah, the $156,000,000 does provide a bit of sticker shock.

But looking again at the list provided by Mr. Mosley leads me to my first question:  Is there anything on the list provided that would constitute an unnecessary expense?  For purposes of this question, I have provided the list below:

New High School ($82.7M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Built at same location
*Focus on advancing CTE program needs
*Designed learning environment based upon program 
capacity and modern teaching practices to strengthen 
and expand the academic experience
*Performing Arts Center will remain in current location

Elementary School New Learning Areas and Improvements ($49.1M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Additional classrooms including flexible learning & 
teaching spaces
*5th grade expansion
*Improved drop off/pick-up and parking
*Additional & improved restrooms
*Expanded and improved cafeteria & gym
*Additional program space for occupational and 
physical therapy

Middle School Improvements ($11.1M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Improved classrooms including flexible learning & 
teaching spaces
*Improved drop off/pick-up and parking
*Additional & improved restrooms

Technology Initiative ($4.8M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Fiber optics
*Infrastructure
*1:1 devices

Safety & Security ($3.4M)
Includes but not limited to the following:
*District wide improvements limiting physical access to 
campuses
*Additional cameras
*Safety vestibules

Stadium Upgrades ($4.5M) - SEPARATE PROPOSITION
Includes but not limited to the following:
*Field turf
*Improved restrooms
*Improved press-box 
*Modified seating
*ADA required updates

Further, my second question is:  If this bond is indeed rejected, does anybody really expect that the price tag for these items is going to decrease? 

Now admittedly, I am an outsider that has relied on stories from folks within.  However, it appears to me that a large part of this price tag is the price for the board, and quite frankly, the citizens of Nederland ISD kicking the can down the road.

Do it again, and the price tag will only be steeper.