bigdog

Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

565 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, prepballfan said:

I smell a crow eating thread after the vote

I bet you thought Hillary was going to win also!    :)

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49 minutes ago, Reagan said:

I bet you thought Hillary was going to win also!    :)

Whether I thought she would win or not I got out and voted........:)  LOL

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5 minutes ago, MMosley07 said:

Top 10 tax payers report and 50/50 breakdown industrial/commercial to residential.

A677966C-B2D0-431A-A8CA-992CF5994581.jpe

913DBEAA-15E1-46D5-A455-43943164A1C8.jpeg

Motiva getting in on the action

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37 minutes ago, MMosley07 said:

Top 10 tax payers report and 50/50 breakdown industrial/commercial to residential.

A677966C-B2D0-431A-A8CA-992CF5994581.jpe

913DBEAA-15E1-46D5-A455-43943164A1C8.jpeg

That’s good info. Two things I’m curious about... I’d like to see the breakdown of some of the other local districts just for comparison’s sake. I’d expect PAISD and BISD to be a lot more heavily business based. 

I’m also curious as to why Sunoco and Motiva are getting such a big break on their taxable values. It makes me wonder if they’re getting some type of break for Ag or wildlife preservation.

Nice find on the data, btw... I’m surprised to see the split is that even. 

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1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s good info. Two things I’m curious about... I’d like to see the breakdown of some of the other local districts just for comparison’s sake. I’d expect PAISD and BISD to be a lot more heavily business based. 

I’m also curious as to why Sunoco and Motiva are getting such a big break on their taxable values. It makes me wonder if they’re getting some type of break for Ag or wildlife preservation.

Nice find on the data, btw... I’m surprised to see the split is that even. 

CardinalBacker, can you imagine how much more in taxes all these business' listed are going to have to pay if/when this massive bond passes? 

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16 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

That’s good info. Two things I’m curious about... I’d like to see the breakdown of some of the other local districts just for comparison’s sake. I’d expect PAISD and BISD to be a lot more heavily business based. 

I’m also curious as to why Sunoco and Motiva are getting such a big break on their taxable values. It makes me wonder if they’re getting some type of break for Ag or wildlife preservation.

Nice find on the data, btw... I’m surprised to see the split is that even. 

Also, tax increases are never good for the economy.  Some residual effects from raising these company's taxes:  Employees may not get the kind of raises they may otherwise expect.  Their bonuses, if they get any, may be smaller.  Plus these company's might not hire the extra person they might otherwise if this tax increase didn't happen.   I'm sure Bob Meeks told the board and CAC to only give the sugar coated parts.  They may have, but I don't remember any pro-bond people on this sight talking in terms of the total bond cost of $156,000,000 and the consequences it will have on business'.  Oh, they say, it'll only cost a couple of boxes of donuts per month per X evaluation.  Of course on that I'm being facetious.  But you get the point!   Interesting indeed!

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17 hours ago, MMosley07 said:

Top 10 tax payers report and 50/50 breakdown industrial/commercial to residential.

A677966C-B2D0-431A-A8CA-992CF5994581.jpe

913DBEAA-15E1-46D5-A455-43943164A1C8.jpeg

 

Did you notice that the value of this bond issue is bigger than  #5-10 on the top ten list combined?

 

Basically, NISD could buy ALL of the holdings of BASF, SUNCOR, Entergy, Philpott, Transcanada Keystone, AND MFG Willow Lakes with the $156 million and still have about $30 million left over? 


Like I said.... a bond is a good idea.  The scope of this one is the problem.  

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4 hours ago, Reagan said:

Also, tax increases are never good for the economy.  Some residual effects from raising these company's taxes:  Employees may not get the kind of raises they may otherwise expect.  Their bonuses, if they get any, may be smaller.  Plus these company's might not hire the extra person they might otherwise if this tax increase didn't happen.   I'm sure Bob Meeks told the board and CAC to only give the sugar coated parts.  They may have, but I don't remember any pro-bond people on this sight talking in terms of the total bond cost of $156,000,000 and the consequences it will have on business'.  Oh, they say, it'll only cost a couple of boxes of donuts per month per X evaluation.  Of course on that I'm being facetious.  But you get the point!   Interesting indeed!

Funny,  didn’t see any businesses closing in PN and seeing as Ned is almost the same composition businesses/ vs residential they will be fine.

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5 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

 

Did you notice that the value of this bond issue is bigger than  #5-10 on the top ten list combined?

 

Basically, NISD could buy ALL of the holdings of BASF, SUNCOR, Entergy, Philpott, Transcanada Keystone, AND MFG Willow Lakes with the $156 million and still have about $30 million left over? 


Like I said.... a bond is a good idea.  The scope of this one is the problem.  

Are you implying you'd be against a $100MM bond too (#5 - #10 = approx $100MM)?

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50 minutes ago, MMosley07 said:

Are you implying you'd be against a $100MM bond too (#5 - #10 = approx $100MM)?

I’m not sure exactly where my line would be. But obviously an amount of debt that was $56 million less would be better in my opinion, provided that the money spent is well spent. 

The numbers are mind boggling. We keep hearing about the $100,000.00 home in Nederland. 

This bond is an amount of money that would build 1,560 new $100,000.00 homes. Think about it. Does it seem like you’re getting you money’s worth when the 156 milly is spent?

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4 hours ago, bigdog said:

Funny,  didn’t see any businesses closing in PN and seeing as Ned is almost the same composition businesses/ vs residential they will be fine.

Where did I say anything about closing?  Read it again!  Address what I actually said. 

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8 hours ago, Reagan said:

Where did I say anything about closing?  Read it again!  Address what I actually said. 

Nope, you said a lot of "may" and "might" because you really have no earthly idea what the real impact this Bond is going to have. 

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58 minutes ago, PlayActionPass said:

Nope, you said a lot of "may" and "might" because you really have no earthly idea what the real impact this Bond is going to have. 

Oh, there's no disputing the impact... $230 million dollars will be transferred over the next 40 years from Nederland property owners to investors who will likely not be from the area.    With the exception for any funds during construction for locally purchased materials (not much) and anybody hired locally to participate in construction.... most of whom are practically guaranteed not to be from Nederland. 

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12 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’m not sure exactly where my line would be. But obviously an amount of debt that was $56 million less would be better in my opinion, provided that the money spent is well spent. 

The numbers are mind boggling. We keep hearing about the $100,000.00 home in Nederland. 

This bond is an amount of money that would build 1,560 new $100,000.00 homes. Think about it. Does it seem like you’re getting you money’s worth when the 156 milly is spent?

You expressed concern over raising taxes. Are you in favor of the second proposition for only athletic improvements that will have virtually no affect on your taxes?

156 mil is a lot of money but construction costs are well over $200 a sq ft right now and not sign of stopping, much more than when the last failed bond was proposed. The prices are not going down anytime soon.

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12 hours ago, Reagan said:

Where did I say anything about closing?  Read it again!  Address what I actually said. 

i read it.  I also don't see any price differences between Ned and PN as far as bushiness go , so whats the impact?  

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3 hours ago, mat said:

You expressed concern over raising taxes. Are you in favor of the second proposition for only athletic improvements that will have virtually no affect on your taxes?

156 mil is a lot of money but construction costs are well over $200 a sq ft right now and not sign of stopping, much more than when the last failed bond was proposed. The prices are not going down anytime soon.

I'm less concerned over that one.  I don't even have a problem with the propositions being singled out.  

$200/square foot seems a little high for commercial construction, but I'll use your number.  With that number in mind, you could create a complete BRAND NEW Central Mall for less than NISD is asking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Mall_(Port_Arthur,_Texas)   

 

705,158 square feet at your price of $200/square foot... add the three, carry the four.... $141,031,600 for a complete, brand new shopping mall.  Not a school that will house 1500 kids for 182 days per year, but an entire shopping mall that would DWARF the plans that Nederland has for the kids.  And you'd still have 15 milly on hand.

I don't care what you guys choose to do as a community.  My problem (as it has always been) is that NISD isn't going to be getting what they're going to be paying for.... for the next 40 years.  

 

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3 hours ago, bigdog said:

i read it.  I also don't see any price differences between Ned and PN as far as bushiness go , so whats the impact?  

First of all, you are right, we don't know the impact yet.  But, can anyone reasonably doubt that there will be one?  Who says there wasn't an impact on business' and employees in Port Neches?  Put your bias aside for one second and think:  Do you believe these business' are going to eat these tax increases from the bond if/when it passes? 

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1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I'm less concerned over that one.  I don't even have a problem with the propositions being singled out.  

$200/square foot seems a little high for commercial construction, but I'll use your number.  With that number in mind, you could create a complete BRAND NEW Central Mall for less than NISD is asking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Mall_(Port_Arthur,_Texas)   

 

705,158 square feet at your price of $200/square foot... add the three, carry the four.... $141,031,600 for a complete, brand new shopping mall.  Not a school that will house 1500 kids for 182 days per year, but an entire shopping mall that would DWARF the plans that Nederland has for the kids.  And you'd still have 15 milly on hand.

I don't care what you guys choose to do as a community.  My problem (as it has always been) is that NISD isn't going to be getting what they're going to be paying for.... for the next 40 years.  

 

Again, CardinalBacker, this is not about being able to educate more children better.  We already know that the system in Nederland is excellent.  So, it's about a whole lot more.  Like keeping up with the Jones' and other things!  99.9% of this massive bond will NOT educate one child!

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43 minutes ago, Reagan said:

First of all, you are right, we don't know the impact yet.  But, can anyone reasonably doubt that there will be one?  Who says there wasn't an impact on business' and employees in Port Neches?  Put your bias aside for one second and think:  Do you believe these business' are going to eat these tax increases from the bond if/when it passes? 

They passed thier last bond in 2009.  There would have been an impact by now, nice try.

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37 minutes ago, Reagan said:

Again, CardinalBacker, this is not about being able to educate more children better.  We already know that the system in Nederland is excellent.  So, it's about a whole lot more.  Like keeping up with the Jones' and other things!  99.9% of this massive bond will NOT educate one child!

Sure it will. What do you think a classroom is for??    Having uncrowded, non leaking classrooms and educational areas is exactly what this bond is about.    There isn't any "keeping up with the Jones, Nederland's schools are between 40-80 years old because people like you that stick their fingers in their ears and scream "NO" at ANY bond, no matter what was on it.

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27 minutes ago, bigdog said:

Sure it will. What do you think a classroom is for??    Having uncrowded, non leaking classrooms and educational areas is exactly what this bond is about.    There isn't any "keeping up with the Jones, Nederland's schools are between 40-80 years old because people like you that stick their fingers in their ears and scream "NO" at ANY bond, no matter what was on it.

FWIW, My dad is 71 and attended classes at Groves E.... which is still in use.  I started Kindergarten at Van Buren E.... it wasn't new back then, and it's still doing a good job.  

Now, they're not as snazzy as the new schools that are being built these days, but those schools are typically being constructed because the districts have outgrown their facilities... That hasn't happened in Nederland.  Some people just want their name on a bronze plaque by the front door. 

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1 hour ago, bigdog said:

They passed thier last bond in 2009.  There would have been an impact by now, nice try.

How do you know there wasn't an impact? 

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