Nederland Bond PASSES!!!!

[CardinalBacker]

I like it when “selfishness” and “greed” are used to describe people who oppose the largest bond issue per capita in SETX History. 

Isn’t it a little “selfish” or “greedy” to vote for a tax increase for all of your neighbors? 

Those are prettty harsh accusations to level just because somebody else’s opinion is that there are obviously less expensive alternatives. 

The sad truth is that the educational system greatly overestimates its own value in the community. I’ll bet that less than 5% of the public can name the NISD Super or more than two board members. People don’t care about the school system, with the exception of high school sports. We’re all here posting and reading... can somebody direct me to a similar site where people show support for academics? Lol. Really... I just Lol’d.

The sad truth is that if you are closely attached to the education system (because you or family work there) you’ll think that new facilities and pay raises for all are totally justified. And if you don’t you aren’t so closely affiliated, you think that maybe teacher should go out and find a full time job if they want a salary that compares to actual full time jobs.  And be thankful that they have ac at their 182 day a year job. 

Nederland isn’t Magnolia... they aren’t a

Outgrowing their facilities. There’s no reason (other than envy) to undertake a project of this magnitude. 

The problem is taxes are too high. If you own a house in Lumberton, you pay property taxes to 4 entities. LISD, Hardin County, your emergency services district, and Lumberton MUD. If you live in Nederland, you pay taxes to seven entities... you’re adding in city of Nederland, DD7, and the Sabine Neches Navigation District. And the crazy thing is that Lumberton can afford turf! People up there aren’t being taxed to death like they are in Jeffco.... and that’s why people relocate up there. I have a friend (former Indianette whose Dad was an assistant principal at PNG high (third generation Indian) who has been living in DFW.  They’re moving back to SETX this summer and they aren’t even looking at PNG as a landing spot. She’s been in Keller and her property taxes have gone up by $3k/year in the 7 years they’ve lived there. 

High taxes are a growth killer. I live the way that taxes go up year in and year out... but according to the Yes people, we can expect our taxes to peak in 2020 and drop after that... who knew that all we had to do was borrow up a bunch of money and our trend of increasing tax bills would reverse? It’s amazing !

[mat]

49 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I like it when “selfishness” and “greed” are used to describe people who oppose the largest bond issue per capita in SETX History. 

Isn’t it a little “selfish” or “greedy” to vote for a tax increase for all of your neighbors? 

Those are prettty harsh accusations to level just because somebody else’s opinion is that there are obviously less expensive alternatives. 

The sad truth is that the educational system greatly overestimates its own value in the community. I’ll bet that less than 5% of the public can name the NISD Super or more than two board members. People don’t care about the school system, with the exception of high school sports. We’re all here posting and reading... can somebody direct me to a similar site where people show support for academics? Lol. Really... I just Lol’d.

The sad truth is that if you are closely attached to the education system (because you or family work there) you’ll think that new facilities and pay raises for all are totally justified. And if you don’t you aren’t so closely affiliated, you think that maybe teacher should go out and find a full time job if they want a salary that compares to actual full time jobs.  And be thankful that they have ac at their 182 day a year job. 

Nederland isn’t Magnolia... they aren’t a

Outgrowing their facilities. There’s no reason (other than envy) to undertake a project of this magnitude. 

The problem is taxes are too high. If you own a house in Lumberton, you pay property taxes to 4 entities. LISD, Hardin County, your emergency services district, and Lumberton MUD. If you live in Nederland, you pay taxes to seven entities... you’re adding in city of Nederland, DD7, and the Sabine Neches Navigation District. And the crazy thing is that Lumberton can afford turf! People up there aren’t being taxed to death like they are in Jeffco.... and that’s why people relocate up there. I have a friend (former Indianette whose Dad was an assistant principal at PNG high (third generation Indian) who has been living in DFW.  They’re moving back to SETX this summer and they aren’t even looking at PNG as a landing spot. She’s been in Keller and her property taxes have gone up by $3k/year in the 7 years they’ve lived there. 

High taxes are a growth killer. I live the way that taxes go up year in and year out... but according to the Yes people, we can expect our taxes to peak in 2020 and drop after that... who knew that all we had to do was borrow up a bunch of money and our trend of increasing tax bills would reverse? It’s amazing !

I have to disagree with your statement. The public education system is a primary foundation for our children's future preparation for 14 (including K and pre K) years for there adolescent lives. Importance wise, it ranks right up there with home and church. During a school year your/our kids spend more time in school than they do at home. They spend more time with teachers than they do with parents (excluding summers. Chances are you public school district is the biggest employer in your city. All or which makes it pretty important.

[PlayActionPass]

41 minutes ago, mat said:

I have to disagree with your statement. The public education system is a primary foundation for our children's future preparation for 14 (including K and pre K) years for there adolescent lives. Importance wise, it ranks right up there with home and church. During a school year your/our kids spend more time in school than they do at home. They spend more time with teachers than they do with parents (excluding summers. Chances are you public school district is the biggest employer in your city. All or which makes it pretty important.

Well said, and don't forget that part about an education being available to ALL members of society; that just happens to be one of the things that sets us apart as a country.

[CardinalBacker]

50 minutes ago, mat said:

I have to disagree with your statement. The public education system is a primary foundation for our children's future preparation for 14 (including K and pre K) years for there adolescent lives. Importance wise, it ranks right up there with home and church. During a school year your/our kids spend more time in school than they do at home. They spend more time with teachers than they do with parents (excluding summers. Chances are you public school district is the biggest employer in your city. All or which makes it pretty important.

I hear what you’re saying. I’m not saying it isn’t valuable... but the general public doesn’t place as much value on it as people who are closely associated with it. 

I’ll put it like this... if only educators and their families were allowed to vote, the approval would in all fairness be nearly 100% if the total bond amount was 6 billion dollars.

So it’s pretty safe to say that you can ignore the arguments of anyone associated with the educational system. We already know that it’s a hard “yes” from them. And I can also admit that if an opportunity came up for me to get a new office space, but everybody else had to pay for it, I’d be in favor, too. 

If the general public cared about education, only the poorest of the poor would attend public schools. We’d all spend huge sums to get our kids into the best private schools available ... but few do. Public school systems were founded because teachers were starving when paid what they were actually worth to he public. 

[BruinGrad87]

52 minutes ago, CardinalBacker said:

I hear what you’re saying. I’m not saying it isn’t valuable... but the general public doesn’t place as much value on it as people who are closely associated with it. 

I’ll put it like this... if only educators and their families were allowed to vote, the approval would in all fairness be nearly 100% if the total bond amount was 6 billion dollars.

So it’s pretty safe to say that you can ignore the arguments of anyone associated with the educational system. We already know that it’s a hard “yes” from them. And I can also admit that if an opportunity came up for me to get a new office space, but everybody else had to pay for it, I’d be in favor, too. 

If the general public cared about education, only the poorest of the poor would attend public schools. We’d all spend huge sums to get our kids into the best private schools available ... but few do. Public school systems were founded because teachers were starving when paid what they were actually worth to he public. 

We all pay for the public education that MOST of us attended and MOST DO attend though......... So WHY NOT make it as good and as top notch across the board as possible??!?!?!? If that's an extra $30 a month then so be it! Or you could just vote no and things can continue to be sub-par and you can continue to send your kids to old schools and quality people will move away, including educators...This is why our country is great though... There's quite a bit more at stake than $30 a month for Nederlanders here IMO.... 

[mat]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I hear what you’re saying. I’m not saying it isn’t valuable... but the general public doesn’t place as much value on it as people who are closely associated with it. 

I’ll put it like this... if only educators and their families were allowed to vote, the approval would in all fairness be nearly 100% if the total bond amount was 6 billion dollars.

So it’s pretty safe to say that you can ignore the arguments of anyone associated with the educational system. We already know that it’s a hard “yes” from them. And I can also admit that if an opportunity came up for me to get a new office space, but everybody else had to pay for it, I’d be in favor, too. 

If the general public cared about education, only the poorest of the poor would attend public schools. We’d all spend huge sums to get our kids into the best private schools available ... but few do. Public school systems were founded because teachers were starving when paid what they were actually worth to he public. 

So you are saying we should ignore those that are probably the most knowledgeable of our system and needs? Interesting. 

[CardinalBacker]

1 hour ago, mat said:

So you are saying we should ignore those that are probably the most knowledgeable of our system and needs? Interesting. 

How does their familiarity with the facilities make them the authority on whether or not I can continue to pay my taxes?

Its like taking the advice of the guy who changes your oil regarding whether or not you should buy a new Cadillac. 

Youre getting an opinion... and that’s about it. 

[Reagan]

3 hours ago, BruinGrad87 said:

We all pay for the public education that MOST of us attended and MOST DO attend though......... So WHY NOT make it as good and as top notch across the board as possible??!?!?!? If that's an extra $30 a month then so be it! Or you could just vote no and things can continue to be sub-par and you can continue to send your kids to old schools and quality people will move away, including educators...This is why our country is great though... There's quite a bit more at stake than $30 a month for Nederlanders here IMO.... 

And let's not forget to mention the total cost:  $156,000,000.  Plus interest, the actual total cost will be way north of that massive figure!  And let's not also forget about demolishing the newest school building in the district.  I think these two facts will be the demise of this bond!

[Reagan]

2 hours ago, mat said:

So you are saying we should ignore those that are probably the most knowledgeable of our system and needs? Interesting. 

No, one doesn't ignore their input.  But one doesn't allow them to dictate 100% of the outcome because it would be 100% for.  They are allowed one vote like the rest of us.  Do we actually know anyone associated with the school district that is opposed to the bond?  Would I be safe in saying that they would all be for it? 

[A BUC 77]

I happen to know a well respected retired teacher who is against it.  I respect that even though I am for it. That's why we vote.  Approved are not, Nederland will be OK.  I think the school and city will be in a much better state if this bond passes.  If they'll build it people will come.

 

[Reagan]

1 hour ago, A BUC 77 said:

I happen to know a well respected retired teacher who is against it.  I respect that even though I am for it. That's why we vote.  Approved are not, Nederland will be OK.  I think the school and city will be in a much better state if this bond passes.  If they'll build it people will come.

 

With all due respect, and I'm not trying to be mean, but Port Arthur built and did anybody come?  As a matter of fact, they dropped from 6A to 5A. 

[mat]

2 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

How does their familiarity with the facilities make them the authority on whether or not I can continue to pay my taxes?

Its like taking the advice of the guy who changes your oil regarding whether or not you should buy a new Cadillac. 

Youre getting an opinion... and that’s about it. 

I think it makes perfectly good sense to trust those that have first hand knowledge and those that spent so much time researching and evaluating the district needs rather than someone that doesn't even have a vested interest.By the same token, I will trust your decision regarding your finances and your personal tax burden.

[Rez Ipsa]

9 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I like it when “selfishness” and “greed” are used to describe people who oppose the largest bond issue per capita in SETX History. 

Isn’t it a little “selfish” or “greedy” to vote for a tax increase for all of your neighbors? 

Those are prettty harsh accusations to level just because somebody else’s opinion is that there are obviously less expensive alternatives. 

 

I agree -- it is incorrect and disingenuous to suggest that someone is not compassionate or generous or good-hearted simply because they do not support a policy proposal. People can disagree on policy directions and community decisions about how to solve problems without being morally bad. Just because someone doesn't want to see a tax increase doesn't make them selfish -- And being eager to spend money someone else has earned doesn't make you generous. I have no trust for anyone, politician or otherwise, who pretends to be "good" because they have big ideas about how to spend money that someone else earned. Taxes are not a good in and of themselves. They are a necessary evil at best. Those of us fighting for fewer taxes, even on issues of education, are not "selfish" for doing so. They just have different ideas about how to accomplish good things.

Even though I look at the bond proposal as what is probably a good thing, I am glad there are people in the discussion willing to carry the flag for the other side, even if just to play devil's advocate. There is nothing wrong with trying to pump the brakes on massive spending projects and nothing greedy about wanting to keep more of the money you have earned. 

[Bigdog]

On 4/11/2019 at 6:03 PM, Reagan said:

With all due respect, and I'm not trying to be mean, but Port Arthur built and did anybody come?  As a matter of fact, they dropped from 6A to 5A. 

Maybe you should look at academic ratings.

[Bigdog]

On 4/11/2019 at 4:30 PM, CardinalBacker said:

How does their familiarity with the facilities make them the authority on whether or not I can continue to pay my taxes?

Its like taking the advice of the guy who changes your oil regarding whether or not you should buy a new Cadillac. 

Youre getting an opinion... and that’s about it. 

No it’s having input from the people who actually work and teach in the buildings.

[CardinalBacker]

4 hours ago, bigdog said:

No it’s having input from the people who actually work and teach in the buildings.

I’ll compare the NISD bond situation like this one. 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

Not the same, obviously, but similar. You have a preposterous proposition made by someone who should obviously knows their own needs, right? Shame on anybody who isn’t willing to dig deep and do more for the greater good. 

I mean, NISD taxpayers are still paying for the last bond issue but gonna be tearing down buildings whose repairs are still not yet paid for....

And it’s not like they’ve outgrown anything. 

 

[purpleeagle]

I say pass the bond. You are falling behind PN-G. SO PASS THAT POND. So It costs you a few dollars more, you probably throw away money on foolish things and think nothing about it. You are a blessed community with good high paying jobs . Let's pass that on to the kids.

[Knoddy1]

We lost out on the last bond election because we were in the middle of a big recession, now we're enjoying high wages, low unemployment rate so now it is time to step up and take care of The City of Nederland and the
School district.  Cardinal Backer you're going to lose your money one way or another, keep the present course and run the schools into the ground and you can bet your property values will drop too. NISD has always been a great strength of Nederland now is not the time to duck tail and run folks, lets get on down and pass this bond. IT'S TIME.

[Reagan]

52 minutes ago, purpleeagle said:

I say pass the bond. You are falling behind PN-G. SO PASS THAT POND. So It costs you a few dollars more, you probably throw away money on foolish things and think nothing about it. You are a blessed community with good high paying jobs . Let's pass that on to the kids.

You are right:  It's all about keeping up with the Jones'.  That's never been a sound way to make policy.   Again -- IMO, 99.9% of this bond will not educate one child!

[WOSgrad]

12 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’ll compare the NISD bond situation like this one. 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

Not the same, obviously, but similar. You have a preposterous proposition made by someone who should obviously knows their own needs, right? Shame on anybody who isn’t willing to dig deep and do more for the greater good. 

I mean, NISD taxpayers are still paying for the last bond issue but gonna be tearing down buildings whose repairs are still not yet paid for....

And it’s not like they’ve outgrown anything. 

 

A couple of questions:

1.  Do you know what repairs where made as a result of the passage of Proposition 1 and Proposition 2 of the 2012 Nederland bond?

2.  Do you know when the bonds for the 2012 issue are due to be paid off?

[CardinalBacker]

31 minutes ago, WOSgrad said:

A couple of questions:

1.  Do you know what repairs where made as a result of the passage of Proposition 1 and Proposition 2 of the 2012 Nederland bond?

2.  Do you know when the bonds for the 2012 issue are due to be paid off?

I do not... and I’m too lazy to do the research. Enlighten me. 

[WOSgrad]

1 hour ago, CardinalBacker said:

I do not... and I’m too lazy to do the research. Enlighten me. 

It wasn't that difficult:

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

and Nederland ISD will be paying on the bonds for proposition 1 until 2037 and proposition 2 until 2038....you see that is how 25 year bonds work.  Then, Nederland High will be 67 years old and one of the elementary schools will turn a spy 100.  Are you truly advocating that not nail one be put in the schools that may affect any of the work done in 2012 and 2013 until all of the bonds from the bond issue are paid off?

[mat]

14 hours ago, CardinalBacker said:

I’ll compare the NISD bond situation like this one. 

This is the hidden content, please

• Sign In
• or
• Sign Up

Not the same, obviously, but similar. You have a preposterous proposition made by someone who should obviously knows their own needs, right? Shame on anybody who isn’t willing to dig deep and do more for the greater good. 

I mean, NISD taxpayers are still paying for the last bond issue but gonna be tearing down buildings whose repairs are still not yet paid for....

And it’s not like they’ve outgrown anything. 

 

Not even similar so why post propaganda?

[CardinalBacker]

5 minutes ago, mat said:

Not even similar so why post propaganda?

It’s very similar. You have the preacher saying that he needs a new $54 million jet. Now, he knows better than anybody what he needs to spread the word. He just needs his parishioners to dig a little deeper and anybody that doesn’t must be greedy and selfish. 

On the other hand you have NISD saying that they need $156 million (@$230 million payout) worth of new facilities. Now, they know better than anybody what they need to do their jobs. They just need the taxpayers to dig a little deeper and anybody that doesn’t must be greedy and selfish. 

It’s exactly the same. Stupid high price tags under the guise of doing good. Anybody dissenting must be flawed... in NISD’s case, just not care about kids and investing in the future. 

[prepballfan]

Get it passed Nederland.