WOSgrad

Carthage 64 Silsbee 36/FINAL

117 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Hupernikomen said:

I saw them too.  They rarely went more than 3 or 4 plays without taking it all the way.  They were unbelievable.  

2012 state champions. 2014 was great too.

 

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53 minutes ago, Hupernikomen said:

I would imagine there are a few programs that would rival this one.  Gilmer has had more than one team that was unstoppable on offense.  I think Navasota was close to that a few years back as well.  WO-S doesn't get as much publicity on offense as they should because their defense is so good.

 

Gilmer 2014 950 points

Navasota 2014 921 points

WO-S 2016 811 points  only 69 allowed

 

Carthage 615 points with 3 games to go.  That is prolific but has been seen before.  

Now I think some of this may be skewed,  no way of knowing for sure.  But these numbers are affected by the scores of some of the games as well as the mentality of the coach.  What I am talking about of course is when did these teams call off the dogs.  I know Friday Carthage could have probably scored 110 if not more if they wanted.  They took the starters out at halftime.  Maybe these others did too I don’t know.

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Carthage, under Coach Surratt, won’t set very many offensive records because he pulls the first-team offense at the half if they’re up by 4 TDs or so.  If they’re not, he pulls them as soon as they do get that far ahead.

Gilmer, on the other hand, always tries to score as many points as they can. They don’t mind scoring 70-plus on a team.

Not to take anything away from Navasota, which had a great offense for a few years, but their district opponents during those years were awful.

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10 minutes ago, ST413 said:

Now I think some of this may be skewed,  no way of knowing for sure.  But these numbers are affected by the scores of some of the games as well as the mentality of the coach.  What I am talking about of course is when did these teams call off the dogs.  I know Friday Carthage could have probably scored 110 if not more if they wanted.  They took the starters out at halftime.  Maybe these others did too I don’t know.

 

The # of kids that went D-I from the skill positions on those teams speak for themselves.  No doubt Carthage will have more than just the RB go play on Saturdays too.

I agree that is hard to compare apples to oranges, I just take exception to saying that 4A has never seen an offense like this..Gilmer and Navasota are just two that I can think of that were as good or better than Carthage.  Burnet with McGee and Shipley were pretty special too. 

 

Liberty Hill has two of the top ten all-time rushing totals in the country.

2004 the team rushed for 7221 yards.  I believe two guys over 2k yards and 2 more at or over 1K yards.

2006 team had 6446.  Once again two guys at or over 2k yards.  

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7 minutes ago, Hupernikomen said:

 

The # of kids that went D-I from the skill positions on those teams speak for themselves.  No doubt Carthage will have more than just the RB go play on Saturdays too.

I agree that is hard to compare apples to oranges, I just take exception to saying that 4A has never seen an offense like this..Gilmer and Navasota are just two that I can think of that were as good or better than Carthage.  Burnet with McGee and Shipley were pretty special too. 

 

Liberty Hill has two of the top ten all-time rushing totals in the country.

2004 the team rushed for 7221 yards.  I believe two guys over 2k yards and 2 more at or over 1K yards.

2006 team had 6446.  Once again two guys at or over 2k yards.  

I have no problem with any of it.  I didn’t see or keep up withreally any of those teams.  I will say Friday night was very impressive as far as offenses go but I think our defensive play or lack thereof added to that.

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1 hour ago, Hupernikomen said:

 

The # of kids that went D-I from the skill positions on those teams speak for themselves.  No doubt Carthage will have more than just the RB go play on Saturdays too.

I agree that is hard to compare apples to oranges, I just take exception to saying that 4A has never seen an offense like this..Gilmer and Navasota are just two that I can think of that were as good or better than Carthage.  Burnet with McGee and Shipley were pretty special too. 

 

Liberty Hill has two of the top ten all-time rushing totals in the country.

2004 the team rushed for 7221 yards.  I believe two guys over 2k yards and 2 more at or over 1K yards.

2006 team had 6446.  Once again two guys at or over 2k yards.  

There you go with these numbers again. Carthage had plenty of chances to break a lot of the scoring and yardage records. I remember back in 2008 Dwight Smith only had 4 carries in the game and all were TD's and Suratt took him out. This dawg offense is special. Navasota 2012 was good but like another poster stated, you have to take in account the VERY weak schedule they had. Carthage has a top 5 schedule year in and year out. I just think it's pointless to use these skewed stats b/c Carthage rarely plays their starters a full game.

One more thing, of course LH will have records rushing, that's all they've done for the past 10 years. Don't understand why you are discrediting this Carthage offense.

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10 hours ago, AggiesAreWe said:

2012 state champions. 2014 was great too.

 

They were great teams 2012 beat WOS and trust believe there hands were full with them that year. Even these days all talk like They CAN'T BE BEAT.I STILL SAY THEY WOULD get all they could want if they faced the WOS. 

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13 hours ago, ST413 said:

No I believe WOS is better than Carthage on the court.

What I’m saying is both are perennial powers in football but not the case at all in basketball.

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23 minutes ago, oldschool2 said:

What I’m saying is both are perennial powers in football but not the case at all in basketball.

I understand that. 

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1 hour ago, AggiesAreWe said:

Navasota rarely played their starters a full game.

Heck did you look at that schedule? They almost scored 500 points alone on historically horrible Houston teams. I do believe they put their back ups in but with the schedule Carthage plays year in and year out, their backups could never put those numbers up against state contenders.

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I don't know why y'all brought Gilmer into this, but I'll give my 2 cents.

Gilmer's offense is built to score points.  Despite what a lot of people "think", they never tried to intentionally run the score up on anybody.  They will come at you full throttle with the passing game, then start running.  It's tough on defenses because they get gassed with the pace of Gilmer's offense, hence the scores keep coming even when the second team is playing.  Their offense doesn't use clock for their possessions until late 3rd or 4th quarter, and can usually score on any given play.  When Gilmer does get a big lead, it's still hard to stop it, especially when they have the talent they've had in the past.

Carthage has a very different philosophy.  They will score plenty of points, then rely on their defense to continue to make stops.  Gilmer, and I absolutely hate to say this, doesn't play the kind of defense that can shut the other team down.  Carthage can.

I'm also pretty sure that if Carthage wanted to they could score 60 points a game, especially this season.  I also think there are a couple of teams left that can give Carthage a very good game because they play good defense.  One of those teams is La Vega.

Yes, I think Carthage can be beat, but it'll take one heckuva team to do it.  I'm not sure there's one out there at this point, but you never really know.  The X Factor that Carthage has is Coach Scott Surratt and his excellent staff.  They know how to game plan.  They can make in game adjustments on the fly, as well as halftime adjustments like no other staff I've seen.  They know how to win.  Period.

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That Navasota group in 2012 was the best small school team i’ve ever seen in my life. Our defense that year was the best defense we had ever fielded with 10 shutouts on the year, an Alabama , Arizona State , Baylor and UTEP commits in the secondary and 2 three year starting linebackers that went on to be Juco All Americans. They shredded us 38-7. They were big , fast , physical and well coached by Coach Fedora. They won the state title game something like 41-3 or so. 

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1 hour ago, wosfan1992 said:

That Navasota group in 2012 was the best small school team i’ve ever seen in my life. Our defense that year was the best defense we had ever fielded with 10 shutouts on the year, an Alabama , Arizona State , Baylor and UTEP commits in the secondary and 2 three year starting linebackers that went on to be Juco All Americans. They shredded us 38-7. They were big , fast , physical and well coached by Coach Fedora. They won the state title game something like 41-3 or so. 

It was actually 39-3, but who's counting...  It was certainly a beatdown for sure.  That team was loaded for sure.

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On 12/5/2017 at 11:02 PM, ctown81 said:

There you go with these numbers again. Carthage had plenty of chances to break a lot of the scoring and yardage records. I remember back in 2008 Dwight Smith only had 4 carries in the game and all were TD's and Suratt took him out. This dawg offense is special. Navasota 2012 was good but like another poster stated, you have to take in account the VERY weak schedule they had. Carthage has a top 5 schedule year in and year out. I just think it's pointless to use these skewed stats b/c Carthage rarely plays their starters a full game.

One more thing, of course LH will have records rushing, that's all they've done for the past 10 years. Don't understand why you are discrediting this Carthage offense.

Nobody is discrediting Carthage..as I stated I don't believe they have an offense that is unparalleled in history of 4A football, and gave a couple examples of at least some that are equal to the current unbelievably talented Carthage offense.  Do you think this Carthage offense is head and shoulders above any offense in 4A history?

 

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16 hours ago, Hupernikomen said:

Nobody is discrediting Carthage..as I stated I don't believe they have an offense that is unparalleled in history of 4A football, and gave a couple examples of at least some that are equal to the current unbelievably talented Carthage offense.  Do you think this Carthage offense is head and shoulders above any offense in 4A history?

 

I don't know how good they are.  I only saw the Silsbee game and that was some sort of outlier that can't really be used for analysis.  The Silsbee defense was in some kind of fog from the very start.  Carthage scored only 7 points in the first half against Henderson.

 

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6 hours ago, JimThorpe said:

I don't know how good they are.  I only saw the Silsbee game and that was some sort of outlier that can't really be used for analysis.  The Silsbee defense was in some kind of fog from the very start.  Carthage scored only 7 points in the first half against Henderson.

 

I saw that too.  The wore them down the 2nd half like the great teams do. Henderson has a fine program as well. 

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